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AbaddonFidelis wrote:the sorcerer isnt immune to instant death. once you've stripped the squad with plasmaguns on your crisis suits, blow the sorcerer away with a rail gun.

it does have an invonrable save thu

I've been playing Tau for years and anyone who says his friend is winning because of a superior codex is entitled to their opinion even if no one else agrees.

Aqua is right about mob'n up. take heavy numbers on him and I would suggest lower pts cost infantry to balance out the cost of zerkers. Summoned deamons can do this very well.

Have the units you would like to keep fan out behind your fodder. They will provide cover to your already tough zerkers.

Using deep striking terminators is also an excellent idea. They have the ability to tie up tau attention and do some serious damage to broadsides. Just make sure you don't just deep strike all willy-nilly. Try to find a spot in his line where you are reasonably close but have some los blockers or cover between you and him.

Lastly, I know you want to play a Khorne list and believe me when I say I commend you for following through on playing a list the way you wanna play it. That having been said anything Nurgle will be a boon to the survivability of your forces and a flying demon prince would make an excellent support to those DS'n terminators.

As for obliteratiors I feel they will be needed to drop any escaping vehicles and crisis suits that my counter DS to you. Just try to give them advantageous positions like being on objectives that are in cover. This will force him to eventually come out to you if he wants that objective.

Overall its a 4ed codex vs a 4th ed codex and the tools to get some wins are in there for both of you.

Good luck and Glory to Chaos!

Im on the 'lets lash prince 'em back to the warp!' fan train, move them into the open, and then apply the universal math of Chainaxe+face= win.

Also on a slightly more fluffy rule, would a Zerker rush army be truely Khorney (forgive the pun) if you add Psykers in to it?

Vasarto wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:dont play chaos space marines. I've been complaining about their mobility on other threads and this is exactly what I mean. you're too dependent on your rhinos as a csm player, which are slow and not at all hard to kill.

what you need to do is suddenly declare to your opponent that your zerkers are no longer zerkers. they have realized the wicked error of their ways, begged forgiveness, and been readmitted to the imperium as faithful blood angels. the upshot of which is that you will from that point on be using a *good* not a *crap* codex. then your rhinos will be fast, you can take drop pods, you can take assault marines as troops, etc. then your mobility issues are resolved and you can clobber the filthy xenos in close combat, as God always intended.

WHAT!?! How Fething DARE YOU SIR!

Blood Angels are weak and Pethetic little Emperor Kiss up Wanna-be's!

Mr. If you know what is good for you, When you repent. Pick up a Large Pint of Ale and a Frost axe and come join the GLORIOUS SPACE WOLVES!!!


HOOOOOWWWWWLLLLLL!!!!




ok ok...but if you want tips to win ummm...Well I do not know much about Khorne Lists as I never played against them. If it was Slaneesh I would just tell ya to take Chaos Sorcerors and More Sound Cannons for your Noise Marines. Maybe try at first, Practicing your Techniques on Distance. Learning what 18' and 12' looks like without the red stick and how far moving 6' and being able to shoot and what you can hit and not hit.

You know practice some basics first and than re read through your codex. Find out why you are going slow and what units you can take and what special rules you can manipulate from other stuff that can fit into your list that can take him down.

ORKS for example. I can take Kommandos and Snikrot...sneak Ghazzy in the back lines and Use Deff Kopters special Outflank rules to obliterate that list you are playing...The Drop Pod Space Wolf Army I am trying to make...or at least have it as an option. Would Be Devastating to it.

You just gotta keep reading the rules and codex and practice the basics and you will win!

All of that space wolves stuff is anyway dont diss the BAs or else...

What points are played? When I played against our local Tau player I lost 1 game with my CSMs, running las/plas marines, a Tzeentch DP with wing, Bolt of Change and Warptime/Gift of Chaos (the latter won me a game on turn 2, his TC got too close in his turn 1 and forgot to JPJ back, so I GoCed him into a Spawn, which charged his hammerhead and wrecked it, leaving just 2 FW squads against my entire army) and Berzerkers in a Rhino.

The Hammerhead was forced to choose between my DP that moves 12" per turn and can blast stuff out of the sky with an S* AP1 shot or a metal box full of bloodthirsty death, and all that whilst being pot-shotted by CSMs sitting on a home objective/in cover somewhere. Of course, at higher points it'll be less trivial than that, but you can put down more metal boxes or perhaps even a second DP with the lash to draw his FWs out of cover, or his battlesuits a bit damn closer.

At higher points, Obliterators are good, as are Defilers (able to ignore crisis suit armour and ID them). Also consider Raptors with an icon and naked aspiring champion; if you can make them look less of a threat than everything else, then you can combine them more effectively with Lesser Daemons and a Greater Daemon (which remember counts as a HQ choice but doesn't take up a slot). The ability for daemons to charge on the turn they pop up is great, and the raptors can get stuck in elsewhere. That raptor unit costs 125pts and takes up one of the more useless slots in the book, add the GD and 10 Lesser daemons, it's costing you 355pts to fund a squad that can really bugger up a gunline or take complete charge of a flank and box the enemy in. Loaded with the Daemon's innate Invulnerable saves and the GD's T6, they can take a wealth of punishment.

necronsftw wrote:

Vasarto wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:dont play chaos space marines. I've been complaining about their mobility on other threads and this is exactly what I mean. you're too dependent on your rhinos as a csm player, which are slow and not at all hard to kill.

what you need to do is suddenly declare to your opponent that your zerkers are no longer zerkers. they have realized the wicked error of their ways, begged forgiveness, and been readmitted to the imperium as faithful blood angels. the upshot of which is that you will from that point on be using a *good* not a *crap* codex. then your rhinos will be fast, you can take drop pods, you can take assault marines as troops, etc. then your mobility issues are resolved and you can clobber the filthy xenos in close combat, as God always intended.

WHAT!?! How Fething DARE YOU SIR!

Blood Angels are weak and Pethetic little Emperor Kiss up Wanna-be's!

Mr. If you know what is good for you, When you repent. Pick up a Large Pint of Ale and a Frost axe and come join the GLORIOUS SPACE WOLVES!!!


HOOOOOWWWWWLLLLLL!!!!




ok ok...but if you want tips to win ummm...Well I do not know much about Khorne Lists as I never played against them. If it was Slaneesh I would just tell ya to take Chaos Sorcerors and More Sound Cannons for your Noise Marines. Maybe try at first, Practicing your Techniques on Distance. Learning what 18' and 12' looks like without the red stick and how far moving 6' and being able to shoot and what you can hit and not hit.

You know practice some basics first and than re read through your codex. Find out why you are going slow and what units you can take and what special rules you can manipulate from other stuff that can fit into your list that can take him down.

ORKS for example. I can take Kommandos and Snikrot...sneak Ghazzy in the back lines and Use Deff Kopters special Outflank rules to obliterate that list you are playing...The Drop Pod Space Wolf Army I am trying to make...or at least have it as an option. Would Be Devastating to it.

You just gotta keep reading the rules and codex and practice the basics and you will win!

All of that space wolves stuff is anyway dont diss the BAs or else...

HA! I would like to see you sparkly fairies take on my frost axe!

Blood Angels and Space Wolves. Kindly GTFO this thread with your arguing.
The guy is asking about Chaos not which badnwagon army they should jump on to.
Sheesh...

AbaddonFidelis wrote:oh god. you guys need to get over yourselves so bad. there's nothing wrong with playing a counts as army. last thing I'll say on this thread. not for the 1st time my opinions are some how more interesting than OPs question.

Dude, mabye he spent a long time builing up his CSM army, and painted them to perfection, and now your telling him: "Oh that codex is s***, play some thing else."
A little rude if you think about it.
But as for the Tau issue, keep your troops spread out which will make them less affected by large blast thmplates. Kepp out of Rhinos, go with Termies or Oblivators.

Um... guys.
Can we cool it down?
The OP has not responded.
Wait for him to respond maybe?

Anyway, IMO, it's quite disruptive to suggest count as, esp. with a new player.
Honestly, advise how to run the army he has stated he is using is the best thing one can do. If one has no experience with using chaos, I will agree with Juvieus Kaine and suggest to GTFO.
____________________________________________________

OT, mech up.
Else, have faster elements.
Make sure you play with enough terrain.

A locked down Tau is a dead tau, so you want to beat face.
Bring some ranged cover fire to silence tanks if you need to, but you really want to do things in their face.

I played my friend today and he runs chaos. he used Kharn the betrayer and a deep striking daemon prince that totaled all battle suits. But on turn 4 i managed to finaly get my hammerhead and broadsides in and killled an intire noice marine squad of ten, in a rino.
moral
get them to deploy first so to get nice and close to whatever table end there at.
deep strike stuff
-they cant shoot as you approch because you turn up instasntly and mall them 1 one go.

Do a combination of mentioned strategies. Outflanking chosen, demons, bikes, and lash are a pretty hard counter to Tau. What you do is you "hide" in hth and move from one unit to another. You can use lash to perfectly space your opponent so that when you charge you can limit the number of attacks you get. Then you pile in and next turn obliterate the unit(s)..and are free to move shoot and assault on your turn.

It's important that you don't only have one fast unit. You want enough target saturation that he can't kill all of your units before you rush him.

A friend of mine always uses a daemon prince to act as diversion, then re boosts his raprtors near the broadsides, also the other units are creeping up as well, while the combat had been resolved.

Sounds like he is doing Static Tau. Solution: Rhinos+ Aspiring Champion+ Daemons( Lesser or Greater. Doesn't really matter. I'd go with Greater though.)= Big Ooga Booga Daemon(s) in assault range. Nothin' says lovin' like something from the Warp.

Don't run to the tau, bring the tau to you. Use dual lashes on any bubble wrap. Grab some oblits or vindicators to plate them up (mind you Vindis will die horribly to railguns).

What doesnt die horribly to Railguns? I mean really?

KingCracker wrote:
What doesnt die horribly to Railguns? I mean really?

You've got a point there sir.

It's not so much dying horribly... it's dying horribly one at a time to solid shots and generally MEQ not bunching up and having power armor.

Although it is most assuredly NOT in the better interest of the greater good...

It is absolutely essential for the MEQ player, especially CSM to not put all your eggs in one basket. It literally says directly in the Tau codex - eliminate that which is the greatest threat to you, with solid shots, stay mobile, rinse, repeat. You need to target saturate his XV88's. Plain and simple. There isn't one definitive answer for what unit in a well played Khorne rush will defeat me, as a Tau player. The answer is variety. Mix it up. A good mix of bikes, rhinos and deep strikers forces him to make hard choices with his limited albeit superior firepower. I find that once the assault starts, it's hard for me to control the swarm, especially if it's coming from a multi-pronged attack.

Be the trident, the crab pincer. Not the spear.

Agreed, even 1 skull champion left standing with a PF or even PW can eat through those broadsides. So the goad is to eat through the cover forces and get even 1 csm in contact with the broadsides. They might be tough to kill in HTH but that is a heck of a lot better than catching 1 to 3 twin-linked solid shots each and every turn.

Bikes, raptors, chosen, termies all can present threats. Remember tau like lots of points in one unit. Best thing for him you can do is put Kharn and 9 berzerkers in one landraider. What he won't like is 2 x 3 man bike units, 1 x 5-man raptor and 2 units of 8 berzerkers coming his way.

DAaddict wrote:Agreed, even 1 skull champion left standing with a PF or even PW can eat through those broadsides. So the goad is to eat through the cover forces and get even 1 csm in contact with the broadsides. They might be tough to kill in HTH but that is a heck of a lot better than catching 1 to 3 twin-linked solid shots each and every turn.

Bikes, raptors, chosen, termies all can present threats. Remember tau like lots of points in one unit. Best thing for him you can do is put Kharn and 9 berzerkers in one landraider. What he won't like is 2 x 3 man bike units, 1 x 5-man raptor and 2 units of 8 berzerkers coming his way.

I read this post saying "yup yup yup yup" until I read

Best thing for him you can do is put Kharn and 9 berzerkers in one landraider.

That is literally the eggs in the basket. Like.. the biggest basket you can find, with as many possible eggs. There will be so many markerlights on that thing, it will look like a blackboard at a laser pointer convention. Diversity is key.

Be the trident. Not the spear.

Correct - read the sentence again.

" Best thing for HIM...."

DAaddict wrote:Correct - read the sentence again.

" Best thing for HIM...."

Yes yes. The soldiers of the greater good would like very much for you all to pile into one big tank, so we may more easily vaporize you. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

Edit: My bad, I misread what you were saying, or perhaps it was worded funny.... Point is, we agree with each other. LOL

To get rid of the hammerheads, if he has a disruption pod you need to get closer than 12" as he gets a 4+ cover save. So again the Tau's weakness is get in close, bend them over and do the nasty.

Tau is a heavy target priority army. They have to prioritize killing or tarpitting those elements which can assault in the order by which they can close fastest. Multiple cheap vehicles work, but Tau excel at killing vehicles. Probably the most effective hard counter to Tau is jump infantry.

I find Tau struggle in 5th with the speed of armies increased across the board, but I think the only army they really can't win against so far is an all Jump, FNP BA army, but that's another topic. The faster you can make your army close with his, combined with board denile (Outlfankers, etc) the more pressure you will place on his army and the better you will do.

Also, as others have mentioned, you're facing an army that has no psychic defense, relies heavily on it's jump troops and has vehicles that have 0 fire points. To shoot the Tau have to be on the ground, and that makes them very vulnerable to Lash.

How to fight Tau you say? Hmm I'd say bikers and defilers would be a great assest. Bikers are fast and quite killy vs Tau crap WS, and defilers for that 72inch S8 AP3 large balst battle cannon (for 150pts you can really ruin his day) as for your rhinos getting blown up there are 2 possible solutions I have for you 1. Take larger squads and foot slog them (atleast you can still run and berzerkers arent known for shooting) or 2. You might be playing on boards with lacking cover and therefore need something to screen your rhinos (like bikers) or you need to better keep the rhinos out of sight or atleast in cover goodluck man

The problem with suggesting a defiler against a Tau army, is suggesting a defiler against a Tau army. Those things are HUGE, and easy to shoot. And its been mentioned many times how well Tau can smash vehicles. Youd get 1 MAYBE 2 turns of shooting that beast before it was scrap.

I am also a bit "eehhhhhh" on the thought of using bikers to screen rhinos. Isnt that a bit expensive for a screen?

I find it odd, that the OP hasn't even bothered to reply back to anyone asking him questions about his list. It's like he posted and just disappeared...

:\

Anyways, I don't have much experience playing with or against either army, however, playing 'Nids I do know superior numbers beat the slag out of few high powered weapons any day. They just can't keep up the volume of fire to take down a flood of models. Plus, using high strength, low AP weapons to hunt little Gants and the like is a huge waste of firepower and allows you time to setup better units to flank/deepstrike him with.

Good luck and have fun.

lol.

ramdom solution.

play on a smaller table and get him to deploy first

KingCracker wrote:
What doesnt die horribly to Railguns? I mean really?

Wave serpent w/ holo fields of course

on topic though, possibly try maxing 6 troops even if it means you don't have 10models in ea squad, don't forget to screen vehicles behind others and kill those silly pathfinders first turn if possible

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

KingCracker wrote:
What doesnt die horribly to Railguns? I mean really?

Wave serpent w/ holo fields of course

on topic though, possibly try maxing 6 troops even if it means you don't have 10models in ea squad, don't forget to screen vehicles behind others and kill those silly pathfinders first turn if possible

I hate holo fields. They always ruin my day.
For me with my dice luck, my railguns hardly kill anything. Well my hammerhead one anyway.

Also got a turny soon, so you peeps know any out flanking chaos kak that I should be worried about?
Never really played against a chaos dude in the last year or so.