Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Something I posted on the steam forum I'd like to see what the intarnets think about the current state of video games and anime

*begin Rant*
has anyone noticed lately how in anime the current trend has gone over, way over, to the big boobs, OMG I want to *** up the main character? I mean I don't see anything wrong with accentuating certain aspects to draw in attention but it seems that's all that anime has with it now. They are all focusing on the sexual aspect and have nearly abandoned the story line. I remember a time when story mattered, back in the 80's and 90's when Gundam and eva came out, the story lines were rich and meaningful with sprinkles of real tech in them as well as philisophical debate. Games were made with insight and took brains to play(IM LOOKING AT YOU SQUARE< YOU F"ED UP MY FRONT MISSION!!!!!!), today it's just boobs in your face and button mashing. Games, movies and shows... They meant something back then, but now it's just to quote Lewis Black "T!tt!3s T!tt!3s @$$ @$$ T!tt!3s T!tt!3s @$$ @$$ @$$" I mean really people can we keep the porn in the porn, and put some thought back into our D@mn games (both virtual and table top), movies and shows.

I can't believe as a male I'm saying this, but I'm tired of having boobs shoved in my face. I would like to exercise my atrophied brain a bit.
*end Rant*

That being said, Evolved IS fun... but it's just the ubiquitous mech game now it could have been called armored core(another of my favorite series): ancient age, they could at least have had the decency to call it by another name. It's lost it's heritage completely.

Well anime in general has always sucked.
As for video games, It does seem like old style JRPGs are on the decline as far as story and characters go. Pouring more money into visual effects and music where stories are becoming more tired and predictable. I haven't been interested in JRPGs since about high school so I'll have to agree partially. However, other game types seem to be getting better. FPS games are getting better, as are action games like God of War (neither of which relied on character development anyway). This is a symptom of the times where people are becoming impatient in their entertainment; seeking "non-stop action" in movies. Old movies (and games) had a lot more dialog and character development. most people who grew up in the 80's or later would find your average black & white movies very boring.
As to the point on boobs in games, that too is a sign of media times. Only in the last few years have VG graphics been good enough to show human features in proper detail and it's only natural someone would use them to make decent looking funbags. And surprise, surprise people liked it because sex sells.

Just my two cents.

Yes, as video game companies began to be bought out by bigger and bigger corporations the developers began to be "directed" about what to include in their games. The same can be said for anime, where a once small time operation has been bought out and commercialised to death.

I got out of video games with the third Smackdown game way back 7 or so years ago. "Caution. Waiting. Loading. Caution. Loading. Caution. Waiting. Loading. Caution." Got to me. I messed around with a few of the GTA games, but I found them to be way to time consuming. I don't have the 6-10 hours a day to sit around and get baked playing video games.

If I had 6 to 10 hours a day to get baked, my army would be painted.lol.

..did you just use Eva as an a counter point to all this? Seriously, Eva? With 14 year old girls built like porn starlets, scientists that will never drown, and Misato? The show that looked for every way it could to emotionally destroy its main characters before having them ripped asunder by white robot zombies or dissolved into a burst of Tang? The show that ended with the main character trying to strangle the last living person on Earth because of how fethed up they both are?

That's your example of an anime that isn't all about tits and fething up the characters just to feth them up?

Yeah but it at least took thought to understand eva, Don't get me wrong I'm not saying a little fan service is a bad thing, it's when you use it to replace an actual story line that I have a problem with. And yes eva was messed up but it was messed up for a reason. The Creator had just gotten out of a very bad time in his life and eva was, well I guess you could call it his symphony that he poured his soul into, and it does take thought to understand fully. Unlike... say .... queens blade which is a hair shy of being a hentai. Theres also anime like gundam, at least the UC gundams which rely heavily on themes of the horrors of war and in particular WWII and how grey conflicts often are, it's not just black and white, good and evil. There is good and bad in all sides, and The original UC series's showed this, it was almost a recurring theme.

I'm afraid the simplification of TV, Anime, and video games which stems from a profit motif from the corporations (afterall if you have a title you know is going to sell big why pour endless resources into it when it's going to sell reguardless). I'm afraid that this trend is dumbing down our society, not just american or japanese but the human society. TV already deadened our creative and intellectual potential, The internet came along and bashed it in the head and ... well this current 'no thought' trend in games and TV and movies seems like it will be the deathblow, the trigger that puts us on the path to the idiocracy.

I mean hundreads of years ago by the time people were 20 they had accomplished something. I think it was euler that started studying math at 17 (that's basically when he started arithmatic) and by the time he was 20 he had basically set the foundations of calculus and differential equations. Today, were lucky if we take upwards of fifteen years to learn the same stuff, and we have the advantage of it being taught to us, euler derived it. and there are no geniuses on his level, there might be the one or two prodigies but they wouldn't be able to do what euler did Even if they had his intellect. Mostly because back then it was read a book or go outside so the 16th century geeks read books.

gendoikari87 wrote:Yeah but it at least took thought to understand eva, Don't get me wrong I'm not saying a little fan service is a bad thing, it's when you use it to replace an actual story line that I have a problem with. And yes eva was messed up but it was messed up for a reason. The Creator had just gotten out of a very bad time in his life and eva was, well I guess you could call it his symphony that he poured his soul into, and it does take thought to understand fully.

That's where I'm going to have to stop you. Eva isn't a grand symphony. It's Hideki Anno's nervous breakdown animated. The man was losing his gak the entire time he was making Eva and he took it out on the characters. He just kept beating them down to beat them down. It stopped being art and started to just be angst about 2/3rds of the way through the series. By the end of it Anno was metaphorically slitting his characters wrists in preparation for slitting his own. The guy lost his gak and the only difference between him and your average suicidal nut was he had a production budget and an animation team working for him.

I own Eva on DVD but I'll be the first person to tell you its reputation is severely overblown.

Theres also anime like gundam, at least the UC gundams which rely heavily on themes of the horrors of war and in particular WWII and how grey conflicts often are, it's not just black and white, good and evil. There is good and bad in all sides, and The original UC series's showed this, it was almost a recurring theme.

Gundam? Sheesh. Back in the day some of the original Gundam was deeper, it had some commentary, and I'd say it was what you're thinking of but anything after 08th MS Team has just been milking the franchise. Anything lately has just been more of the angst pretending to be character depth you decry.

I'm afraid the simplification of TV, Anime, and video games which stems from a profit motif from the corporations (afterall if you have a title you know is going to sell big why pour endless resources into it when it's going to sell reguardless). I'm afraid that this trend is dumbing down our society, not just american or japanese but the human society. TV already deadened our creative and intellectual potential, The internet came along and bashed it in the head and ... well this current 'no thought' trend in games and TV and movies seems like it will be the deathblow, the trigger that puts us on the path to the idiocracy.

You're just wrong. I'm sorry but you are. You're looking at history through rose colored glasses. Big tits and shows one nipple slip away from being hentai aren't a new trend, it's been going on for about twenty years now. Phoned in storylines are nothing new. Eva and Gundam weren't all the anime there was back in the day they just happen to be the ones that rose above the load of crap of their time to get remembered. All this stuff you're decrying right now? No one will remember it in ten years. They'll remember the few good ones and bitch and moan about how shows, games, anything was better back in the day but is just getting dumber. It's like the classics of literature. Do you really think that Dickens and Twain, and Melville and any other author in that group were the only people writing books back in the day? Hell no, they're just the ones who wrote something good enough to endure.

I mean hundreads of years ago by the time people were 20 they had accomplished something. I think it was euler that started studying math at 17 (that's basically when he started arithmatic) and by the time he was 20 he had basically set the foundations of calculus and differential equations. Today, were lucky if we take upwards of fifteen years to learn the same stuff. and there are no geniuses on his level, there might be the one or two prodigies but they wouldn't be able to do what euler did. Mostly because back then it was read a book or go outside so the 16th century geeks read books.

Oh for the love of... there are plenty of geniuses on his level today. You know why you haven't heard of them? They're doing gak right now that people won't really grasp the importance of for a century or three.

Perspective man, get some.

Great storytellers are still out there, and I'm sure that there are wonderful animes available now, though I don't follow that scene anymore. The last one I was really struck by was Claymore. The idea of becoming something you loathe in order to kill it is as old as time, but translated very well to biomorphic demonhunters.

If you really are looking for good story pick up a book. That medium still has great creators putting out material every year.

Gundam? Sheesh. Back in the day some of the original Gundam was deeper, it had some commentary, and I'd say it was what you're thinking of but anything after 08th MS Team has just been milking the franchise. Anything lately has just been more of the angst pretending to be character depth you decry.

Predominantly, the original, 08th, 0080 and to some extent 0083.

You're just wrong. I'm sorry but you are. You're looking at history through rose colored glasses. Big tits and shows one nipple slip away from being hentai aren't a new trend, it's been going on for about twenty years now. Phoned in storylines are nothing new. Eva and Gundam weren't all the anime there was back in the day they just happen to be the ones that rose above the load of crap of their time to get remembered. All this stuff you're decrying right now? No one will remember it in ten years. They'll remember the few good ones and bitch and moan about how shows, games, anything was better back in the day but is just getting dumber. It's like the classics of literature. Do you really think that Dickens and Twain, and Melville and any other author in that group were the only people writing books back in the day? Hell no, they're just the ones who wrote something good enough to endure.

Yeah it existed back in the day but not to the extent it is now.

Oh for the love of... there are plenty of geniuses on his level today. You know why you haven't heard of them? They're doing gak right now that people won't really grasp the importance of for a century or three.

of intellect yes of accomplishments, no, and that's the point. There are great accomplishments being made yes but not on the scale they were with euler or some of the other great mathematicians,

granted that could be because they did a grand bulk of the work to be done but still. Distractions are taking their toll.

It just comes down to what sells, because all companies want is money. Even mature rated games are marketed to teens who's hormones are going crazy, so all they think about is boobs. Thus, that becomes the focal point of the games too, the teens buy them, the company makes lots of money, then they just rinse and repeat.

Video games are just like big business hollywood blockbusters now, all about how great the actors and effects look, but the story isn't important because stories don't make money. It really sucks, but thats how it is :(

Necros wrote:It just comes down to what sells, because all companies want is money. Even mature rated games are marketed to teens who's hormones are going crazy, so all they think about is boobs. Thus, that becomes the focal point of the games too, the teens buy them, the company makes lots of money, then they just rinse and repeat.

Video games are just like big business hollywood blockbusters now, all about how great the actors and effects look, but the story isn't important because stories don't make money. It really sucks, but thats how it is :(

I really don't WANT to believe this because the day i do I'll feel the last part of my soul die, the last remanant of my faith in humanity dwindle, and the last hope for the future fade away.

Okay, maybe that's a bit melodramatic but the day we decided money is absolutely everything to the exclusion of all else is the day humanity quits being humane.

gendoikari87 wrote:

I really don't WANT to believe this because the day i do I'll feel the last part of my soul die, the last remanant of my faith in humanity dwindle, and the last hope for the future fade away.

Okay, maybe that's a bit melodramatic but the day we decided money is absolutely everything to the exclusion of all else is the day humanity quits being humane.

To be fair, today's sell-outs could well be regarded as tomorrow's geniuses. Why, there was this hack in London who crapped out plays to please the masses and line his pockets.These plays were tired retreads of centuries old stories. He updated Pyramus and Thisbe, turning a classic into the violent and sexual theatrical equivalent of a B-movie. We know that money-grubbing playwright as William Shakespeare, and that remake as Romeo and Juliet.

Art can be created for purely corporate motives.

Gitzbitah wrote:Great storytellers are still out there, and I'm sure that there are wonderful animes available now, though I don't follow that scene anymore. The last one I was really struck by was Claymore. The idea of becoming something you loathe in order to kill it is as old as time, but translated very well to biomorphic demonhunters.

If you really are looking for good story pick up a book. That medium still has great creators putting out material every year.

Claymore, you say? I'm going to have to look that one up.

Slarg232 wrote:
Claymore, you say? I'm going to have to look that one up.

It's available for streaming if you have netflix. I generally avoid anime but it does look interesting.

gendoikari87 wrote:of intellect yes of accomplishments, no, and that's the point. There are great accomplishments being made yes but not on the scale they were with euler or some of the other great mathematicians,

granted that could be because they did a grand bulk of the work to be done but still. Distractions are taking their toll.

The inability of a single genius to make as great an impact today is the result of the sheer scale of knowledge we as a society have built up. Euler stepped into a field that had only seen so many come before, few of whom were able to dedicate their lives to its study. But today there are probably more geniuses working in theoretical mathematics today than there’s been in the whole of human history before today, all of whom working in it full time.

It isn’t because we have x-boxes.

gendoikari87 wrote:I really don't WANT to believe this because the day i do I'll feel the last part of my soul die, the last remanant of my faith in humanity dwindle, and the last hope for the future fade away.

Okay, maybe that's a bit melodramatic but the day we decided money is absolutely everything to the exclusion of all else is the day humanity quits being humane.

A bit melodramatic?

Art has always been commercial, and it always will be. Who wants to make art that no-one wants to see? So you include something to draw in the punters, and then you try and include a piece of yourself. If you do it right your work gets remembered.

It may even get mentioned as a classic work from a time when art was so much better, unlike today when everything is apparently so commercial.

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:
Claymore, you say? I'm going to have to look that one up.

It's available for streaming if you have netflix. I generally avoid anime but it does look interesting.

The whole series is also free on Hulu. Suffers from a gecko ending, but supposedly the studio is in negotiations to do a Brotherhood-style reboot. Here's hoping that's true.

Anyway, a solution to the OP's problem: Stop watching gakky anime. Seriously, it's not that hard to find a good show that doesn't rely on fan service to drum up sales. Check out the shows Mushi-shi and Spice and Wolf, for instance. Both keep well away from the gorn, too, which IMO is a very welcome change.

Full Metal Alchemist.

You don't get better then Ed and Al.

Slarg232 wrote:Full Metal Alchemist.

You don't get better then Ed and Al.

Brotherhood, anyway. The first one kind of gets... odd... by the end.

Laughing Man wrote:

Wraithlordmechanic wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:
Claymore, you say? I'm going to have to look that one up.

It's available for streaming if you have netflix. I generally avoid anime but it does look interesting.

The whole series is also free on Hulu. Suffers from a gecko ending, but supposedly the studio is in negotiations to do a Brotherhood-style reboot. Here's hoping that's true.

Anyway, a solution to the OP's problem: Stop watching gakky anime. Seriously, it's not that hard to find a good show that doesn't rely on fan service to drum up sales. Check out the shows Mushi-shi and Spice and Wolf, for instance. Both keep well away from the gorn, too, which IMO is a very welcome change.

you forgot titania but all of these are on hiatus right now. Haven't seen or heard of mushi-shi

gendoikari87 wrote:Something I posted on the steam forum I'd like to see what the intarnets think about the current state of video games and anime

*begin Rant*
has anyone noticed lately how in anime the current trend has gone over, way over, to the big boobs, OMG I want to *** up the main character? I mean I don't see anything wrong with accentuating certain aspects to draw in attention but it seems that's all that anime has with it now. They are all focusing on the sexual aspect and have nearly abandoned the story line. I remember a time when story mattered, back in the 80's and 90's when Gundam and eva came out, the story lines were rich and meaningful with sprinkles of real tech in them as well as philisophical debate. Games were made with insight and took brains to play(IM LOOKING AT YOU SQUARE< YOU F"ED UP MY FRONT MISSION!!!!!!), today it's just boobs in your face and button mashing. Games, movies and shows... They meant something back then, but now it's just to quote Lewis Black "T!tt!3s T!tt!3s @$$ @$$ T!tt!3s T!tt!3s @$$ @$$ @$$" I mean really people can we keep the porn in the porn, and put some thought back into our D@mn games (both virtual and table top), movies and shows.

Yeah this is really a new thing. I mean back in the nineties this never happened. What happened to flat chested video game protagonists like lara croft who never ever moaned as if sexually stimulated whenever she bumped into a wall? I imageine if they remade Duke Nukem today it would have strippers in it nd all sorts what with this all new trend of sexualising video games.

Yes we get that good games and smut have existed side by side and continue to do so, my point is that crap is more prevalent now. It's a ratio thing not a it existed then but not now.

and so what if the tomb raider games had a protagonist with big boobs there were actually good games, the boobs just accented the game, they weren't there to distract you from it being a bad game. at least the early ones.

It's not more prevalent, there are just more games. But I think now we've established that this issue is only really of concern to you when you consider the game of poor quality, I don't feel the need to explain that to you any more than I have.

Just a note about Claymore. If you like the anime, read the manga. The anime finishes too soon, while the story in the manga goes own and grows up a lot.

Tyyr wrote:Eva and Gundam weren't all the anime there was back in the day they just happen to be the ones that rose above the load of crap of their time to get remembered.

My introduction to anime was some weird tentacle porn movies that this one guy had a kind of frightningly large collection of. I always find 'ZOMG anime is getting so bad' threads silly because of that.

Necros wrote:It just comes down to what sells, because all companies want is money. Even mature rated games are marketed to teens who's hormones are going crazy, so all they think about is boobs. Thus, that becomes the focal point of the games too, the teens buy them, the company makes lots of money, then they just rinse and repeat.

Video games are just like big business hollywood blockbusters now, all about how great the actors and effects look, but the story isn't important because stories don't make money. It really sucks, but thats how it is :(

Video games are a big buisness now,but one of the reasons they are beginning to stagnate is that companies simply cannot take the kinds of risks that they used to. With the current generation of systems,the cost of game development is so ridiculously high,one or two flop big budget titles can sink a studio. Development costs have ballooned to $20-30 million a game from $3-6 million/game in '05. That leaves developers with three options. They can minimize the risks they take by sticking with popular franchises and formulas. They can raise prices,which nobody wants to see considering the current poor economy. Or,they can pump out a crappy game that stinks by comparison to other titles and hope it sells well enough to make money[generally accomplished by acquiring some sort of lisence for a property].

Sex sells. A good game with a hot lead heroine is probably going to sell better than the same game with male lead. That's one of the ways you minimize risk.

Another reason the game industy has stagnated is that online play is currently hot on console games. You don't need a great storyline for an online shooter. Consumers are focusing more on the online multiplayer component,so the developers are,too. Developers are coming up with an online formula that works,tweaking it with each edition,then throwing in a short campaign to justify it as a full fledged game instead of just an expansion instead of DLC.

Um A) what exactly caused development prices to rise 10 times in five years?

B) whats keeping them from using the old level of graphics and reducing their development cost to focus on actual quality?

gendoikari87 wrote:Um A) what exactly caused development prices to rise 10 times in five years?

B) whats keeping them from using the old level of graphics and reducing their development cost to focus on actual quality?

Graphics = Quality. Gameplay = Quality. Storyline = Quality.

gendoikari87 wrote:B) whats keeping them from using the old level of graphics and reducing their development cost to focus on actual quality?

Uhh, sales?

gendoikari87 wrote:Um A) what exactly caused development prices to rise 10 times in five years?

B) whats keeping them from using the old level of graphics and reducing their development cost to focus on actual quality?

a)As each generation of video game console becomes exponentially more powerful,companies have to spend a lot more time and money to get the most out of the new console's capablilities.

b)Graphics sell games,bottom line. If you decide to focus more on gameplay and such,then another developer will trump you with graphics. The ones that can't afford to focus on graphics are the ones pumping games out for portables and/or Xbox LIVE Arcade/PSN.

At the end of the day, if you want artistic integrity and new ideas, you might have to consider looking outside of anime and video games.