Realistic Imperium of ManvsThe Empire! Scenario/Storyline detailed inside..YOU DECIDE WHAT HAPPENS!

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**Ketara**

Taken from the other thread, as I believe its sufficiently different in objective and scope. The objective here is that I will have the war and storyline progress, step by step, and you guys can debate with me over how you think it would proceed. Once all useful opinion has been garnered, the scenario will be adjusted suitably, and the storyline advanced another phase. I will provide pieces of fluff throughout, in order to make this a more interesting experience, and aid you in making your decisions on how you think things would progress.

Okay then. The Empire vs the Imperium of man. Two ruthless, technologically advanced factions clash in battle. But before we can analyse in any depth, first, the scene must be set....

Okay, comparative size. We have to assume the Empire is of a certain minimum size, or the result wouldn't even be worth talking about. As such, here's a quick merging of the two maps I've thrown together.

The Star Wars map can be seen closer up here:- http://www.startwins.com/star_wars_galaxy_map_2.jpg

The 40K map can be seen closer up here:- http://files.meetup.com/1529335/40K%20Galaxy%20Map.jpg

In this mock up I have created, the Empire(or Star Wars universe) appears at roughly a fifth the size of the Imperium(or 40K universe). I'll note here that you can disagree with this if you like, but if you do, please don't bother responding to my post at all. Why? Because to be frank, this is the scenario I'm laying out. I'm making it as reasonable as I can for a realistic confrontation between the two, and if you're going to quibble over the scale involved and tell me the Imperium of Man would 'pwn' SW because they're 'like, a gazillion times bigger', than the whole thing is moot to begin with.

So yes. the next step is to establish a time period. For the Imperium, it will be the standard 41st century. For Star Wars, it will be between the Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. So Super Star Destroyer models are in construction, the Empire is still unified, and at its largest. Death Star technology is available, but is of course, phenomenally expensive, and the second one is under construction.

One thing I note a lot of people do is have discussion dissolve into superweapons vs superweapons. As such, I'm limiting things right now. The Sun Crusher/World Devastators/Galaxy Gun will be out of reach of the Empire at the start of the scenario. The world eater virus for the Imperium will also be forbidden. Why? Because to be frank, the Imperium of Man uses it as a last resort. If its on a war of conquest, it won't use this weapons. It is important to establish the context here with regards to super-weapons, or it turns into a superman vs batman debate.

With relative size, time period, and superweapons established, the next step is to determine where the force/warp stand in this scenario. I could say that everyone in the SW Universe is clearly a Blank, hence the lack of psychic activity, however, this would render the Empire impervious to Imperium assault, and be broken. As such, here's the concept I shall now lay out. Its completely invented by myself, but equalises and provides a coherent framework for the function of the Warp in this scenario.

Lying deep underneath the bowels of Coruscant is a massive psi-dampening device of ancient Necrontyr origin. It's the beginning of their great work to shut away the Warp forever, and is similar to the pylons on Cadia, only infinitely stronger. The result of this psi-damper, is that the closer to Coruscant you get, the weaker the Warp Becomes. So psykers on Coruscant would have all their access to the warp cut off, psykers half the SW galaxy away would only have half their relative strength and so on. This massive psi-damper is the reason daemons never manifest themselves, and psykers are an absolute rarity in the Empire, and tend to be more prolific on further out worlds. The Psi-damper does not prohibit warp travel within the Empire, but it slows it down. The closer to the psi-damper you get, the longer it takes you to travel the same amount of distance.

As said, this is entirely fictitious and invented on my part to give the SW Universe some sort of place within the 40K Universe. It also regulates the concepts of the Warp, and makes for a more realistic scenario, that doesn't involve people shouting, 'lol, my psyker would eat your jedi before he gets out his glowy stick!'

In terms of other races, both will still have the problems they've always had. So Eldar will be flying around, Orks launching Waaghs, and the Rebellion launching raids on Imperial planets. The only modification to be made will be the Emperor being able to escape the Second deathstar, as his presence is necessary to hold the Empire as a coherent entity, similar to the Emperor on Terra.

So yes. This is the scenario in which my discussion, and anyone who chooses to talk about it with me, shall take place. If you disagree with these basic premesis, then do not comment on my posts, as we will be envisaging separate incompatible scenarios, making any debate a waste of time.

I'll get to work on how I think the war would play out now...

The astronomican would function in its standard way, in order to allow Imperial ships to navigate, that's correct. However, the further into the SW Universe they go, and the closer to Coruscant, the slower Warp Travel becomes. This equalises the Empire having to send out scout probes and suchlike to be able to plot courses into the Imperium.

As said, the Psi-damper limits the influence of the Warp upon the SW Universe, making Daemon manifestations impossible. So whilst psykers become immediately far less powerful, its almost impossible for them to suffer a 'perils of the Warp' attack, as it were.

With regards to the Force, it shall be treated as a completely separate power to the Warp. However, the relative rarity of Jedi and Sith reduce them to being a minor factor in the equation.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
So. First contact.

It would initially be between Rogue traders and smugglers as is so often the case. Planets on the furthest outer rim engaging in small time trade with planets only barely under the control of the Imperium. In both the case of the Imperium of man, and The Empire, recognition that the other exists would be slow. There would be minor trade (blaster rifles, agricultural equipment, rare stones, minerals, etc) occurring for many years between the two criminal elements before any kind of official recognition occurred. Who would be the first to notice?

Well, Prince Xizor of Black Sun would be the logical choice to put two and two together. He reports to the Emperor, and controls the vast Black Sun crime syndicate. He would be the first official of either side to realise that there seems to be more worlds of undiscovered allegiance lying outside the control of the Empire. However, in keeping with his personality, before reporting this to the Emperor, he would seek to wring maximum advantage from it, and garner all available knowledge first. Therefore I could see a small fleet of smugglers/pirates setting out to see what they could see.

The nearest point of contact would be the Ghoul stars if the SW universe lies in the region of space indicated in the modified map I gave. To give a quote:-

This was the very first Crusade launched by High Marshal Helbrecht. This was a dangerous decision as no Imperial expedition had ever returned from this desolate region of space. The Black Templars were intent on finally vanquishing the 'Cythor Fiends' of the Ghoul Stars. The battles were bloody but decisive, and after eight years the the xeno population was all but destroyed, and the Black Templars began to push in towards the alien home world. Upon reaching the core systems, they were found to be eerily empty. No trace of the aliens could be found, but before a proper investigation could be launched, a desperate call for help came from the besieged world of Armageddon. High Marshal Helbrecht immediately contacted Marshals Ricard and Amalrich, and began to co-ordinate a massive attack on the Ork Waaagh. Three Black Templar Crusades descended on the Hive World of Armageddon. The Third War for Armageddon had begun.

To add some history to the scenario, we can presume the outer rim fleet had already been there, and destroyed the worlds of the Xenos before the black Templars could arrive. After Helbrecht and co. left for Armageddon, we can see colonists from the Empire slowly beginning to trickle into the region. The nearest Imperial presence would be at the close by Gates of Varl, which was written in the 40K fluff to guard against "the quiescent perils of the Ctan". This ties in with the concept of their being a C'Tan artifact upon Coruscant.

Therefore first contact would occur roughly in this region here:-

More to come...

Note: Imperial means the Empire, Imperium means Imperium of man. May result ins ome slight grammatical deficiencies, but then you'll know exactly who is being spoken about!

Now, for the last piece of background setting, the closest Imperial fortress world is that of Rothana, and the nearest Imperium military world is that of Baal. However, in terms of civilian worlds, the closest world of the Imperium is that of Dolumar.

Now on the 40K map, XCV-104 is listed as an 'otherworld'. Not dead, not uninhabited, simply undetailed. We can assume that this world, would be the one initially colonised by Imperial civilians. Dunen II, being a dead world, would be the ideal spot for Prince Xizors pirate/smuggler exploration fleet to set up base. In this storyline, they hollow out an asteroid there, set up shop, and begin doing brisk trade(smuggling piracy) with the newly established nearby Imperial colony, and Imperium held Dolumar. However, this of course failed to take into account another presence in that region of space, that of the Krork.....

So! The scene is set! How do you think the galactic situation would start to evolve? Chime in!

**Asherian Command**

Interesting I think we need to make a battle. We could suggest Ideas and start making a battle plan as my family is full of nerds and we have 250 stormtroopers.....

But anyway looks like this thread is full of win.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Well, can't say much yet except that I respect you very much for actually managing to create a plausible scenario between the two universes. I take my hat off for thee!

**Just Dave**

Seems interesting, I don't know much about many other universes or care either, but I'll pay attention none-the-less (although not contribute), providing it stays reasonable and within the VERY GOOD scenario detailed.

However, I strongly expect there will be still people posting crap or that outside of the scenario, however hopefully it can progress intellectually despite this and - being a mod yourself - it's kept in check per se...

Anyway, I like the idea, I'll be watching.

**Asherian Command**

If you want me to I can call up my Star Wars expert, of course he would agrue the Space Marine vs Jedi. But anyway if you want me to I can provide soldier specks and stuff like that.
The GE just does not only have Storm Troopers.
They Have
Dark Troopers
Assassins
AT-ST
and a whole lot of other stuff that is not covered.

**Ketara**

Asherian Command wrote:If you want me to I can call up my Star Wars expert, of course he would agrue the Space Marine vs Jedi. But anyway if you want me to I can provide soldier specks and stuff like that.
The GE just does not only have Storm Troopers.
They Have
Dark Troopers
Assassins
AT-ST
and a whole lot of other stuff that is not covered.

I'd rather space marine v Jedi threads were kept elsewhere. And soldier specs and whatnot won't be necessary until later, as things stand, we're looking at smugglers/rogue traders, and their gathering at Dunen II. To provide some more scenario info, on the nearby Ork planets...

Jagga is home to a notorious fleet of Ork Kill Kroozers, under the control of the Ork Free Bootaz group called the Star Krumpas.

Gorkamorka is a deserted planet covered in pyramidial structures occupied only by Orks, desperate to get off of the planet, which became irradiated when a space hulk crashed into it

So. We have Imperium Rogue Traders, and Black Sun collaborating on Dunen II, and sending goods back to the nearest civilian planets. We have an infamous gang of Ork Freebootaz around, and a planet full of stranded orks, and possibly much in the way of lost archaeotech. So, in your view, what happens next and why?

**AlmightyWalrus**

Well, sooner or later either the Orks or the Smugglers run into the other. As Orks don't feel like talking through their differences, fighting ensues. The winner of this first skirmish will depend (of course) on who finds the other first and what kind of vessel finds what.

**ChrisWWII**

Of course, yes, the smugglers and black sun will encounter the Ork held worlds. Unsure of how the Orks think, they will try to initiate trade, which of course will end in conflict.

And depending on how closely the Rogue Traders here are tied to the Imperium.....it's not going to be long before an Explorator fleet or something comes looking for more archeotech.

**Ketara**

--------------------------------------------------
Holonet transmission 234554389

My Lord Xizor, construction of the new star-base goes well, with the asteroid sufficiently developed to house our entire fleet. Despite these 'Rogue Traders' reluctance in the matter, we have extracted the name of their nearby planet of operations, a place called Dolumar. We are dispatching half a squadron of fighters, one of our three Corellian Gunships, and two of our freighters to establish a listening post on the outer edges of the system on the morrow.

As per your command my Lord, we have abstained from attacking the new Imperial colony, and have shielded its development from the knowledge of the Rogue Traders. However, despite this, it appears many of the supply trains being sent out from Lamaradd have sbeen destroyed, along with a squadron of Tie-Wings sent to investigate their loss. One of the Gunships succeeded in picking up some engine transmissions at the site of their wreck, and is currently trailing in hope of learning more.

Chagga the Hutt

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Vox transmission alpha b:///76
Destination: Explorator Chronus: Forgeworld Esteban

Chronus, been a while. Found a few items of interest whilst out 'on business' I thought you might want to consider. I've sent you a gun, and a new communication device, that might pique your interest. Seems like non-standard technology. I'll expect my payment in the usual account.

Vernedear

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

**skysky**

Well the orks are most likely responsible for the missing ships and supplies, they like the shiny gubbin's

. If the Imperials aren't careful the escalation of supplies and protective/investigative ships will be picked up by the RTs, they are pretty crafty and resourceful.

**Mr Nobody**

A techpriest working on the rogue trader eventually gets his hands on a peice of the empire's technology. Understanding the significance of what he has found, he immediately alerts the mechanicum, requesting one of the mechanicums explorator ships. When it arrives, s

t hits the fan.

**Asherian Command**

I don't know who to side with D:

**blazinpsycho&typhooni**

Are there tyranids near the ghoul stars? or necron?
and the necrontyr artifact on cora-.... core-... dammit.... coruscant? Would necron be involved, or are we ommitting them from coruscant so the scenario would make more sense...

**Mr Nobody**

For now, you don't have to take a side, just say what will happen next.

**undivided**

If we chime in, do we have to be either Imperium or Empire only? Or can we take in to account other factions, like the Rebellion or Chaos?

I'd assume that the Gods wouldn't just sit around watching as an inter-galactic war ensues.

**Asherian Command**

I shall chip in for the imperium it seems.

**ChrisWWII**

I'm going to bet that that poor Corellian gunship is going to have a big 'Oh

' moment when it realizes exactly what it's following. Much more so if the Explorator fleet arrives before it catches up with whatever it's following.

He already thinks a Star Destroyer is a massive vessel....I shudder to think what he'll think when he sees a full fleet where the smallest SHIP is ISD sized...

**Asherian Command**

Yeah. And it will also be hilariously funny.

**Huffy**

when the mechanicus get their hand on star wars tech, they's send a magos to investigate.....i dont think they would tell the other parts of the imperium until they absolutely had to.

raiding by the orks will result in attention from the empire, which would probably lead to a short bloodly war in the area....

which could lead to the orks migrating into the imperium and the imperium going "where are these orks coming from!!"

**Ketara**

--------------------------------------------------
Holonet Transmission 5683053

Prince Xizor, the Corellian Gunship sent out to establish the cause of the destroyed transports appears to have gone missing as well. However, we've traced the homing beacon to a nearby system the Rogue Traders have labelled 'Bork'. However, they are proving to be remarkably close mouthed about what they believe to be the cause. Profits are up on weapons sales to the new colonists, they've reported a few settlements looted and burned by some kind of green alien similar to a Gamorrean. Perhaps some kind of native warrior culture suitable for recruitment by Black Sun?In any case, our spy there reports that the colonists have sent out a call for some Imperial forces to deal with the alien infestation, so our recruitment (should my lord choose to be interested), must commence swiftly.

Our holonet transceiver in the Dolumar system has been established without a glitch, it appears the technology of the natives is too primitive to realise the function of our equipment. We're beginning intelligence interception as of yesterday, and will report any meaningful findings immediately.

Chagga the Hutt

-----------------------------------------------------

Response to Holonet Transmission: 5683053

Chagga, do you think I'm a fool? Do you forget I have Imperial sources too? What you choose to call a 'few settlements' is no less than the second largest established city! Vader has diverted a Victory class Star Destroyer from the Outer Rim fleet to deal with the problem, and now thanks to your loss of one of your gunships, the forces you have left are too weak to stop the destruction of your asteriod base if they detect it! I'm dispatching two Kruk BattleWagons to help stop the Star Destroyer should it go wandering. However, they will remain under the command of Pieterbas, the Captain, and will follow MY instruction only. You will NOT permit the Imperial Commander to make contact with any of the natives of the nearby system! That will be MY accomplishment to lay before the Emperor, not Vader's!

My patience with you grows thin Chagga. See you do not disappoint me again, or the consequences could be quite....lethal.

-------------------------------------------------------

Meanwhile, Somewhere on Esteban.... wrote:

Magos Chronus lay the heretical weapon back down on the examining table, his optic eye still analysing the numerous flaws and inconsistencies that separated the device from one properly sanctified by the Omnissiah. Much of the rifle's apparatus was similar to that of a Plasma Gun, the cooling rods and primary focusing coils in particular. Having tested the weapon upon the flesh of servitors several times, the the gun had was no doubt the result of highly advanced technology. The burnt and cauterised meat of the servitor could attest to that. In terms of damage done to an unshielded body, it even outstripped the capabilities of a lasgun by minimal extent, and seemed to embody the spirit of a lighter weight Hellgun.

However, no matter the multiple different methods he had tried to recharge the device, he seemed unable to make it fire again. He presumed the power supply had to have been drained. It would be just like the sloppy work of technological primitives to make a gun only capable of firing a few dozen times. Nonetheless, there were many interesting design features, and even one or two technological advances in the field of focusing the power of the weaponry, advances that could be used to upgrade the cooling functions of plasma weaponry. Indeed, it was intriguing enough to warrant further investigation. He rattled off a code of binary at a nearby servo-skull, already wondering what other uses this heretical technology could be put to. Certainly, it could not hurt to gain more samples for further analysis....

On board the Ork Kill Kroozer Gitsplitta..... wrote:

Warboss Bargutz put the leg of meat to his mouth, and ripped off another chunk, his massive teeth making short work of the carcass. He sat in his chamber, toying with all his newly acquired gubbinz. Fondling his newly acquired Glowy Stik, thumbing it on and off with a hiss each time, he considered the words of the Mekboy standin' in front him. 'Whaddaya mean yer can't figger out how the gunz work? Yer pull der trigger, and watch the fireworks you nonce!' he roared. The Mekboy winced, 'But Boss, we can't make 'em take our bullets. Wot happens when they run out of juice?' Bargutz's brow for a moment creased with the strain of considering the issue. It cleared a moment later, as he was hit with a spot of Orky Kunnin. 'You knows where dese 'umies is, right?', he said, gesturing at the Mekboy with the glowy stik. The Mekboy nodded, clearly hoping to escape without losing a limb in the process, a fate that had already befallen 4 grots and an unlucky grunt now down with the Painboyz. 'Den we'll go and ask 'dem how to make 'em work! 'Umie's always squeals once you feed an arm or leg to a squig!'. Bargutz's decision made, the Kill Kroozer began to ponderously turn in space, heading towards a new destination.....

A chart for you chaps:-

You need not take a side in this scenario, you just say what you think should, or is likely to happen. Simple as that. As things stand, the only three factions involved is da Orks, Imperium, and Empire. Other Factions may be included at a later date, but these are the ones present at the moment.

**ChrisWWII**

Hmmm, let's see. Depending on who gets there first we could easily see a Victory class ship duking it out with the Kroozer. In this case, I'm willing to bet the Kroozer will win, but the Victory will have time to send out a distress call, or call for help or some other such thing.

Depending on who they call, this could mean either Vader sending in more reinforcements, or it could mean the Black Sun realizing they may be slightly outclassed.

**Asherian Command**

Holy Emperor!

**blazinpsycho&typhooni**

ORKS!!!

**IvanTih**

The scenario is highly dependad on which calcs we use,ICS(extremely high end and lower than movies in cannon book) or we use movies(they give them megaton weaponry).
Anyway if the Empire invades 40k galaxy they'll need to scout hyperspace for routes and hyperspace lanes.
Imperium on the other hand could use it's warp speed at maxium(Codex Imperial Guard gives us 1,000 ly per day at best days).
The Empire has industrial advantage and strategic mobility which means that they choose which target to engage and when.
If we use ICS calcs,IOM loses,but if we use Movies calcs then the Empire loses.

**Lexx**

Imagine if the Imperium got their hands on hyper-drive technology? No need to use the warp as much and navigators would be out of a job and culled.

**IvanTih**

Lexx wrote:Imagine if the Imperium got their hands on hyper-drive technology? No need to use the warp as much and navigators would be out of a job and culled.

That's why they would do everything to stop that or at least form a deal with AM which gives them right to again act as a Navigation officers or something,but they would also need to map out routes and lanes.

**Huffy**

next step.....I'd bet the black sun tries to employ the warboss..and would succed to start off, orks get to fight for guns and whatnot, however that could be dependant on the clan..if its just pirates then the orks would be more likely to join

I dont think that the tech priest would bring a large retinue..depends how high up he is, cause the mechanicum does have politics and attracting too much attention to a new "heretical" tech before he can get his hands on it and how it works wouldnt be in his best interest

**Mr Nobody**

Also, would the imperium attempt to bring the empire into the fold, or just consider them heretics for foreign technology and collaborating with xenos?

An ork with a lightsaber, what could go wrong?

**Asherian Command**

Nurgle stormtroopers! OMG!
Tzeench Darth Vader! OMG!
Khorne Chewbacca! OMG!
Slaanesh Han Solo! OMG!
Khornate Ewoks! DO IT!

**maxpower3579**

it will depend on which clan the orks are. if its the blood axes or free bootas, then they might just help, but if its Goffs, snakebites or deathskulls they might not go so well. the dethskulls because they probably wont be able to not loot/steal some empire stuff, and that wont be cool.

the problem is the AM might find the empire and the empire will try to be nice, but that will be a bad thing. best kill him, make it look like the orks, and leave it at that. but they wont know to do that, just saying.