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Okay so after reading some of the oddest thing people have said about communism (and a mention of liberty prime from fallout which was funny) I have decided to post this on the off-topic thing. I myself am a Communist so please feel free to make any compelling argument you wish, however please keep the talks relative to the subject nothing stupid like references from fallout I'm serious.

Oh good another communism thread.

I love communism, I'm all for it. Finally those capitalist pigs will pay for their crimes, eh comrades?

Communism cannot work, it is a noble principle but ultimately total equality is a myth unobtainable to a species who compete as we do. (the term 'supreme soviet' should speak volumes on how it really cannot be realised).

Socialist state control of principle national resources (water, fuel, transport, national grid, military, health service etc) is what I think remains a more viable solution. With a healthy free market economy in luxuries, technologies and tertiary resources.

Monster Rain wrote:Oh good another communism thread.

I love communism, I'm all for it. Finally those capitalist pigs will pay for their crimes, eh comrades?

Wait huh? Now I'm confused cause in that thread about the garfield person you seemed kinda serious. In anycase I'm kinda hoping somebody comes in here trying to talk about things they dont know about with communism so that there can be a debate

And if communists are so smart, how come they live in igloos?

Monster Rain wrote:And if communists are so smart, how come they live in igloos?

I'm not ashamed to admit I laughed out loud to that for a minute or so.

I'm also amazed that someone from the states would think that 'odd things' were said about communism. The only way one would be an American communist and suprised by anti-communist sentiment is if they are a) trolling us, as this same thread popped up a month or so ago, or b) they are so ignorant of American and world history that they think Communism is a seafood dish and don't understand why we make fun of food.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Communism cannot work, it is a noble principle but ultimately total equality is a myth unobtainable to a species who compete as we do. (the term 'supreme soviet' should speak volumes on how it really cannot be realised).

Socialist state control of principle national resources (water, fuel, transport, national grid, military, health service etc) is what I think remains a more viable solution. With a healthy free market economy in luxuries, technologies and tertiary resources.

Well I mean it CAN work people are simply so devided they dont really see where it currently is working. Now we as humans do we truly compete as a species? Or has the modern mentality made us adapt to become competitive? Anyway look at cuba for instance they have a 1.5%? Unemployment rate, they have a lower child mortality rate than the US (and frankly a better healthcare system despite the embargo impedeing on what they could do better to achieve) Well to go alittle bit closer more modernized countries well the US healthcare system is broken and pretty corrupt. Whereas the UK, Canadian Healthcare is much better in all terms. I dont think a free market economy has done much wonders for the world seeing how there is a pretty much global economic crisis and China and the US are looking at a war over currency it seems clearly obvious seeing how the US is taking direct hostile action against china (non-militant but they seem to be forming a coalition against china. why? Because our leaders are weak and cant admit they owe a freaking debt they cant payback)


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Ahtman wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:And if communists are so smart, how come they live in igloos?

I'm not ashamed to admit I laughed out loud to that for a minute or so.

I'm also amazed that someone from the states would think that 'odd things' were said about communism. The only way one would be an American communist and suprised by anti-communist sentiment is if they are a) trolling us, as this same thread popped up a month or so ago, or b) they are so ignorant of American and world history that they think Communism is a seafood dish and don't understand why we make fun of food.

Hang on sorry about slow replies one person here, umm for the Igloo thing what are you talking about? I meant moreso the references to fallout3 is what I define by odd. and I am by no means ignorant of american or world history infact I absolutely love world history it interest me, also I'm not trolling please dont accuse me of that

Oh jesus. A trolling thread. This will only end in tears. I can see it coming already.

Do you really think that saying "I am a communist, please talk to me" is going anywhere sensible?

Elmodiddly wrote:Oh jesus. A trolling thread. This will only end in tears. I can see it coming already.

Do you really think that saying "I am a communist, please talk to me" is going anywhere sensible?

Naw I dont think it will, sure people will troll but still its the internet I can take some trolling lol.

Well I didnt exactly say that I just merely suggested that I am open to friendly debate if a flamewar starts I'm having a mod lock this pronto,the nature of the topic I posted is harmless, and besides if they do troll so what? It's not gonna glorify them or make their cause look all that more viable than my cause

Joe McCarthy.

Nuf said.

Well I mean it CAN work people are simply so devided they dont really see where it currently is working. Now we as humans do we truly compete as a species? Or has the modern mentality made us adapt to become competitive? Anyway look at cuba for instance they have a 1.5%? Unemployment rate, they have a lower child mortality rate than the US (and frankly a better healthcare system despite the embargo impedeing on what they could do better to achieve) Well to go alittle bit closer more modernized countries well the US healthcare system is broken and pretty corrupt. Whereas the UK, Canadian Healthcare is much better in all terms. I dont think a free market economy has done much wonders for the world seeing how there is a pretty much global economic crisis and China and the US are looking at a war over currency it seems clearly obvious seeing how the US is taking direct hostile action against china (non-militant but they seem to be forming a coalition against china. why? Because our leaders are weak and cant admit they owe a freaking debt they cant payback)

Tip 1: When trying to put forward an argument, use correct grammar.

Tip 2: When trying to put forward an argument against a point on socialist state control of national resources, going off on an irrelevant rant about Obama, China and currency only hurts your point.

I just looked into a mirror and said 'Gailbraithe' 3 times.


Nothing happened.

I personally think it a good idea, state controlled property is a good thing; it decreases unemployment, raises production and lowers prices. The downside of it means that supply and demand goes out the window; one year there may be need for lots of soap, the government issues a plan to make thousands of bars of soap within the next five years, but after the first year there is too much soap, the state can't sell it at the right price because state controlled property had thrown supply and demand out of the window making it hard to trade with the rest of the world.

But as I've said before, to maintain communism requires the restriction of some liberties, not everyone is happy with that.

Maybe, we should instate a system of government where the system rotates every couple of years, or the populace votes on which system of government they want after every five years.

Also, may I add a few people may be interested in talking about this, I don't see this thread as a troll, I see this as a response to recent ignorance in this forum (not mentioning any names Monster Rain)

Well im not exactly a master of the english language (despite it being my natural native language) I mean ladies and gentlemen I try with my grammar I really do lets not completely hammer me on that.

Well it started off as a point of relevancy and kinda side-tracked which still somewhat stayed on point then completely wandered off.

Well why cant I use cuba as an example? North Korea certainly isnt communist (during the whole thing between the soviets and china north korean invented juche to stay out of it which later became son-gon which puts military at a higher level and somehow ended with theocracy) China certainly is not communist


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wizard12 wrote:I personally think it a good idea, state controlled property is a good thing; it decreases unemployment, raises production and lowers prices. The downside of it means that supply and demand goes out the window; one year there may be need for lots of soap, the government issues a plan to make thousands of bars of soap within the next five years, but after the first year there is too much soap, the state can't sell it at the right price because state controlled property had thrown supply and demand out of the window making it hard to trade with the rest of the world.

But as I've said before, to maintain communism requires the restriction of some liberties, not everyone is happy with that.

Maybe, we should instate a system of government where the system rotates every couple of years, or the populace votes on which system of government they want after every five years.

Also, may I add a few people may be interested in talking about this, I don't see this thread as a troll, I see this as a response to recent ignorance in this forum (not mentioning any names Monster Rain)

Well to start under a REAL communism there is no currency period (marxists theory and economics very complicated) and I doubt there would be a shortage of soap or the like, but I get what you are trying to say. What liberties would it restrict, because as true marxsist theory goes no liberties need be restricted or taken away. Umm the rotating government sounds interesting but that sounds like it would go out in flames.
Thankyou for defending me on that note

wizard12 wrote: I see this as a response to recent ignorance in this forum (not mentioning any names Monster Rain)

I think it's quite obvious that Monster Rain was errr 'joking' in the Garfield thread.

It's pretty useless to talk about "communism" without defining what sort of communism you mean.
This article would provide a good starting point to define for us what branch of communism you support and allow us to see if we agree or disagree with different parts of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism#Terminology

As MGS said, I prefer a mixed economy where some aspects are controlled by the government to prevent profiteering and ensure a fair and comprehensive service to all citizens, and others are left open to the free market.
I would also say that the level of socialism I am in favour of depends on the physical situation of the country. For example, in smaller nations that are geographically bounded (islands for example) or even larger nations that are very spread out, I think the government can do a better job of running certain utilities (electricity and transport are my two best examples, but stuff like broadband infastructure and so on is also a good example) than private companies.

If you start a debate with a very ambiguous premise, the likelyhood is that people will argue across each other with only a limited understanding of what the other person is on about.

Da Boss wrote:It's pretty useless to talk about "communism" without defining what sort of communism you mean.
This article would provide a good starting point to define for us what branch of communism you support and allow us to see if we agree or disagree with different parts of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism#Terminology

As MGS said, I prefer a mixed economy where some aspects are controlled by the government to prevent profiteering and ensure a fair and comprehensive service to all citizens, and others are left open to the free market.
I would also say that the level of socialism I am in favour of depends on the physical situation of the country. For example, in smaller nations that are geographically bounded (islands for example) or even larger nations that are very spread out, I think the government can do a better job of running certain utilities (electricity and transport are my two best examples, but stuff like broadband infastructure and so on is also a good example) than private companies.

If you start a debate with a very ambiguous premise, the likelyhood is that people will argue across each other with only a limited understanding of what the other person is on about.

True, very true. Well in all truth Im more of a moasit-marxist (granted all forms of communism generally do use Marxism as the very basis) so we can start there. Why am I Moaist? Well because of the flexibility of Moaism (promotion of womens rights, worker controlled means of production, ect.) I think Moaism is very misunderstood

Albatross wrote:I just looked into a mirror and said 'Gailbraithe' 3 times.


Nothing happened.

Or did it....



Dun dun DUUUUNNNNNN

I suddenly feel like playing Modern Warfare 2. DIE SPETNAZ!

Okay I will admit that is funny, but could we please stay on topic?
And wow camboyaz that isnt offensive to anybody is it?

Reading up on Maoism, it seems like it would require a pretty drastic shift in US infastructure to make it happen. Do you think that that is likely to happen, and is it something you would actively campaign for?
I know that many Americans (and others) that I have spoken with online equate Communism with Stalinism, which means that it is viewed really negatively and constructive debate is difficult. Personally, I couldn't see Maoism ever catching on in the states due to the independant, competative nature of Americans.

Lord-Loss wrote:

wizard12 wrote: I see this as a response to recent ignorance in this forum (not mentioning any names Monster Rain)

I think it's quite obvious that Monster Rain was errr 'joking' in the Garfield thread.

It would be nice if he was, the internet offers so much vagueness its hard to be sure.

JK! I liked Communist Russia more than post Communist Russia. Communisum is good in theory, it just has not been exicuted properly yet.

If you look at his posting history, you'll see that he often displays that sort of humour. I thought the Garfield thread was one of his funniest, actually.


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camboyaz wrote:JK! I liked Communist Russia more than post Communist Russia. Communisum is good in theory, it just has not been exicuted properly yet.

If a theory does not produce the predicted results, then it is not a good theory. For this reason, I would say that communism is not a good theory, as far as the evidence we have thus far can show us.

It appeals to our sense of fairness, but then, at the base, so should capitalism.

I'm not a communist because I believe in equality, I'm a communist because I want to take people's hard earned money and give it to the frivolous.

Da Boss wrote:Reading up on Maoism, it seems like it would require a pretty drastic shift in US infastructure to make it happen. Do you think that that is likely to happen, and is it something you would actively campaign for?
I know that many Americans (and others) that I have spoken with online equate Communism with Stalinism, which means that it is viewed really negatively and constructive debate is difficult. Personally, I couldn't see Maoism ever catching on in the states due to the independant, competative nature of Americans.

It would require a drastic shift no doubt at all, honestly its something I do not expect to see in my lifetime but it is something I do actively (and peacefully at that) rally for and actually talk to people about, because no matter how rude or crude they can and have been I will never return the favor with equal crulety, also stalinism is very hard to really explain what with the bad winter harvest, many dead and damage done to the land post WWII, and most people not even knowing what the gulags actually were it had put stalin in a well bad imagery. Honestly your probably right but when you do say americans dont include me in that I have no love for the US and dont plan to be a citizen here forever.


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Nurglitch wrote:I'm not a communist because I believe in equality, I'm a communist because I want to take people's hard earned money and give it to the frivolous.

That wasnt a very educated statement at all try for something valid, also I think you have communism and capitalism mixed up

If a theory does not produce the predicted results, then it is not a good theory. For this reason, I would say that communism is not a good theory, as far as the evidence we have thus far can show us.
.

So true. I can make a theory about what an ideal world it would be if every time I dropped a rock, it floated, but at the end of the day, if its virtually impossible to make the rocks float, then its a bad theory.

Da Boss wrote:If you look at his posting history, you'll see that he often displays that sort of humour. I thought the Garfield thread was one of his funniest, actually.


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camboyaz wrote:JK! I liked Communist Russia more than post Communist Russia. Communisum is good in theory, it just has not been exicuted properly yet.

If a theory does not produce the predicted results, then it is not a good theory. For this reason, I would say that communism is not a good theory, as far as the evidence we have thus far can show us.

It appeals to our sense of fairness, but then, at the base, so should capitalism.

Well technically communism did work in maoist china they were pretty damn near absolute communism as for the great leap forward mao didnt even do that, that was deng xiaoping(a capitalist) and mao even told him do not lie about our food production your plan wont work, lo and behold mao was right and deng xiaoping apologized to the chinese people, also pol pot was not a maoist he didnt even say he was until after mao had died and he didnt even support the gang of four

ShadowZetki:

I don't have to be very educated, just better educated than you!

Nurglitch wrote:ShadowZetki:

I don't have to be very educated, just better educated than you!

Which you clearly arent now go away troll, and if you did believe in eqality why not tell companies like nike to stop using failed athletes like micheal jordan to promote their shoes which are produced in illegal sweatshops on the coastal regions in china where little girls are chained to desk to make those, if you believe in equality why not help those who are poor and suffering?