Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

How many people have ever made a list that goes over the points value for the game? I'm sure everyone has at some point or another, but what do you think is the most acceptable level. If a freind and I are going to play a casual game and his list is bit over the points, I don't mind, but at what point is it to much? I feel the cutoff line should be 5 points. I feel that it's leanient enough but anything more cn just be a persoj trying to sneak an extra weapon on their unit or somethng. Thoughts?

I should say that when I say 5 points is the limit, that doesn't include 5 points. 5 points or anyhithing more is unacceptable to me.

Nope...you can always tweak the list to be at the points level..if you tolerate that it gets to be a habit, so then what's the use of a pointage level? if you say until +5 pts then say the limit is 1505 or 1755 or 1855 or 2005, because that is what it actually is....

+4 is the maximum i'll allow in a 40k friendly. In fantasy, I allow nothing over, there are enough things that cost 1-2pts there. In 40k, the lowest cost is usually 5pts for a meltabomb. If they really can't drop anything without re-working the list, i'll give them 1504pts or 2004pts etc. If they can drop stuff for minimal points (like wargear), i'll ask them to drop it.

A limit is a limit, no sense in having one if you won't use it. Thathaving been said, if a friend and I are quickly throwing together a game and want to start playing right away rather than spend time list tweaking and he is a few points over (maybe between 1-5 at most) then I really do not care and we will start playing. As an alternative if someone is 5-10 points over the limit and cannot really cut it down, perhaps based on the models he has available, then I can generally add in some grenades, meltabombs, a teleport homer or something similar to make up the points easily enough, so then we play the game at 1005 points for instance without it being a big deal.

In other settings, such as torunaments or more formal/organized games, the limit is what it is and if he has to field an army thatis 5-10 points short then that is what he has to do, rather than be over the points limit. It happens and if someone wants to take certain things in their list then that is the choice they have to make.

I think it depends on the codex, really. for some of the older ones, I'd be fine if one was a point or two over, in non-competitive play. However, there's no excuse in post-5th Ed. codices, where 98% of upgrades are divisible by 5.

5 points is plain too much. That's enough for a Melta-bomb on most Marine characters. And a 5 point upgrade that is over the agreed point limit, that can take out my 250 point vehicle will not sit well with me.

$10 a point and I'm fine with anything

For a few points that are can mean one more fusion or anything that can change the game, no matter the small it may be.

But in the other hand, in friendly games it doesn't matter (at least to me).

if it's 1500 they can have less than or equal to that, no more

It really just depends on who the person is and how long they had to put there list together. If its a spur of the moment game with a good friend that I can trust is not going to try to cheat me then I don't mind them going a few points over. Tournament or even tournament practice I will ask them to drop something.

I really don't care. Unbalanced games seem almost more "realistic" to me anyways. I have played games where I tabled my opponent before 1/3 of my army came in from Reserves, and I have had the same one to me. If the game is too unbalanced, we simply need to change the victory conditions.

If they counted wrong or made an honest mistake I'll let it slip as long as it's not too big. Under 5 points is no big deal, if they have 5 points or more it sort of depends on the situation. If they are 10 or more points over they need to drop something as that can make a huge difference.

If it's obvious that they sneaked something in and hoped no one would catch it, then they need to drop it. If that means going under the limit, then so be it.

Generally if they come in over on a friendly game I'll just take something to match up the points but usually I'd prefer them to stick to the limits where possible. I'll generally be ok with 5 points if there's no way they can drop something without compromising their army set up.

I feel that if you want to play a 1504 game, ask your opponent to do so.

If you agree to play a 1500, then bring 1500 or less.

Same with movement distance, weapon ranges, and most other rules--since those are agreed to as well.

Mind you, we have been know to play games of odd totals for various reasons. There is no reason NOT to deliberately play a 1537 point game if you like.

If its only 5pts over Im ok with it, but the person must explain why.

kirsanth wrote:I feel that if you want to play a 1504 game, ask your opponent to do so.

If you agree to play a 1500, then bring 1500 or less.

Same with movement distance, weapon ranges, and most other rules--since those are agreed to as well.

Mind you, we have been know to play games of odd totals for various reasons. There is no reason NOT to deliberately play a 1537 point game if you like.

This is exactly my opinion.

Hey guys, what's this thread about?

(looks at title)

NOOOOOOO!!!! Kill this thread with fire!

Check out: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/319293.page



I predict this thread will quickly evolve into two camps:

The "a few points isn't a big deal, stop being TFG" group and the "limits are there for a reason, you're jumping off a slippery slope, YOU stop being TFG" group.

No one is going to be convinced either way. Just another endless bickering that makes up the internet

I allow up to 5 points, not as an extra 5 points to be 'intentionallly' spend, more as a buffer when list-making

e.g:
I have a mob of boyz, and I'm at 993 points, upgrade to nob is 10 points, so I would allow someone to be at 1003 points (as they haven't intentionally used the 5 points.

I have a mob of 20 boyz, I am at 1000 points, I want to buy a big shoota (5 points) I would not allow the upgrade as the points limit would be exceeded intentionally.

Soulx wrote:I should say that when I say 5 points is the limit, that doesn't include 5 points. 5 points or anyhithing more is unacceptable to me.

That seems a bit arbitrary, to me. 4 points but not 5? Personally, I would probably say "screw it, go ahead" in a friendly game, simply because I don't want to sit around while my opponent tweaks his list. Maybe I'll take an extra grenade to balance things out, or something.

There's an assumption here that this opponent just drafted his list up on the spot or miscalculated at some point and his mistake was just discovered. If you're entering a tourney, you should know better. If you have consistent lists you use at common points values (1000, 1500, 1850, whatever), you've had time to figure out how to make things fit. Who the hell expects to play an 1853pt. game? Forgiving errors or saving time is very different than coddling lazy list builders or giving that brat his extra melta bomb so he doesn't cry, in my eyes.

Freindly games i do 10 percent of the army its just a freindly game... but if its a league or tourie... your going too be dead on or under... Im sorry 5 points thats melta bomb or a special weapon, that can be use over and over in the game...

StarGate wrote:Freindly games i do 10 percent of the army its just a freindly game... but if its a league or tourie... your going too be dead on or under... Im sorry 5 points thats melta bomb or a special weapon, that can be use over and over in the game...

I don't understand the first part. Would you, in a 2000-point game, allow your opponent to bring 2200 points? I think I'm misreading it.

10% ??!!??!!

that's two extra squads for some armies, or drop pods for an entire marine army... only 10% of a 1500 point army is a heckuva lot of ork boyz.

I don't like a point difference for the sake of the miniature's weapons modelled either because every army has some upgrade that isn't modelled they can skimp on, or can drop some guy from a squad somewhere. Even that 3 point difference of going over means my farseer can pop a tank from 12" with a spear instead of having to charge it with a witchblade. 4th Ed. guard could hand out bolters left and right for 1 point each so the sarge dude wasnt stuck with a lasgun. One point makes the difference between rapid fire S3 and S4 for a dude, or having to drop some other 'invisible' upgrade to fit it in.

Ive always done it as close to the points value as possible without going over. If im a couple of points short too bad. If either of us are over the points value then the other person can make up the difference.
There was one time where i was 150pts over in a 1500pts battle by accident. I had been unpacking my units onto the table and left a 10 man CSM squad with a missile launcher on the table. I quite happily used it, not that i recall it doing much and didnt realise it wasnt supposed to be included till after the game when we were tallying up VPs. Since i completely spanked my opponent i didnt bother mentioning that i had a 1650pt army.

I've never really cared.

I've had games that were 1854 vs 1857 and meh, big deal.

Hell, the last even we played didn't have points limits. Or FOC. We just said people could bring what they wanted. Ended up playing a 1500 point (ish) Lost & The Damned force against a 2000 point Tau army, a 2300 point Deathwatch army vs a 2000 point Tau army (or around that), and an 1800 point Inquisitorial army against a 2500 point Eldar army. It was fun.

gazelle wrote:I really don't care. Unbalanced games seem almost more "realistic" to me anyways. I have played games where I tabled my opponent before 1/3 of my army came in from Reserves, and I have had the same one to me. If the game is too unbalanced, we simply need to change the victory conditions.

I agree. Sure, points make things "fair"...but not very realistic in a wargame. How many battles in history were completely balanced?

Mad4Minis wrote:How many battles in history were completely balanced?

H.B.M.C. wrote:I've never really cared.

I've had games that were 1854 vs 1857 and meh, big deal.

Hell, the last even we played didn't have points limits. Or FOC. We just said people could bring what they wanted. Ended up playing a 1500 point (ish) Lost & The Damned force against a 2000 point Tau army, a 2300 point Deathwatch army vs a 2000 point Tau army (or around that), and an 1800 point Inquisitorial army against a 2500 point Eldar army. It was fun.

The above I agree with, but think are sidestepping the question:

Soulx wrote:How many people have ever made a list that goes over the points value for the game?

If you agree to unbalanced points, or agree to no points you are not (guaranteed to be) going beyond the values agreed upon.

Depends on the group. My group has let 20 points over slide before in the interest of just starting to play the game. If my friend or myself are ever over points, we tell the other person and they just throw an extra squad member or bit of wargear in their own army.

-Loki- wrote:If my friend or myself are ever over points, we tell the other person and they just throw an extra squad member or bit of wargear in their own army.

That's actually a good way of doing it. We've done that before where I or one of the others has ended up a few points over - everyone else just adds a few things here and there to get as close as possible, and then we start playing. Only takes a few minutes to sort out.

I feel that the point limits should be adhered to. The best way to avoid the question all together in a friendly game or any other is just to stick within the limit. Building the best list you can with what you have available is a big part of wargaming.

Gridge wrote:Building the best list you can with what you have available is a big part of wargaming.

For some people.

Others don't care as much.

for tournaments you shouldn't go over at all.


for friendly games i would say if you are unable to remove 1 piece of wargear to make it exact then your ok.

less then 5 points is acceptable. very few armies have wargear that costs less then 5 points and that wargear certaintly won't break a game. if you can drop something to be within the points then your should.