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Hey all,

In case you don't make your way up to the News & Rumors that often, thought I'd note here that there's a new round of FAQs out for Fantasy.

N & R Post

Link to FAQ & Errata

RZ

Geez, yet again? These guys are on fire.


Thanks again, GW!

Hah, I finally printed out the last edition's two days ago.

Not seeing much excitement across the BRB, WoC, Skaven & Ogre (which I think is old) ones. Confirmed that third eye can steal all Life spells except regrowth, so Internets +1 on that one.

- Salvage

Although I still think there's a number of things that need clearing up, this is probably how FAQs should work. A steady flow of small fixes to close up holes as they're found. It's less exciting, but if every FAQ release involved lots of wild shifts, then it would be harder to follow.

RZ

Awesome. If the GWs are reading this, please know that this sort of behaviour makes me much much much more likely to continue buying your product.

Red_Zeke wrote:Although I still think there's a number of things that need clearing up, this is probably how FAQs should work. A steady flow of small fixes to close up holes as they're found. It's less exciting, but if every FAQ release involved lots of wild shifts, then it would be harder to follow.

QFT. Also, highlighting the changes is a simple thing but really helpful, as I'm sure I would miss these small but important things otherwise ...

- Salvage

Boss Salvage wrote:Not seeing much excitement across the BRB, WoC, Skaven & Ogre (which I think is old) ones. Confirmed that third eye can steal all Life spells except regrowth, so Internets +1 on that one.

- Salvage

Yes! My new plan to deal with slanns (stay over 24" away from the slann, but within 24" of the unit, to try to cast dwellers below with IF) is still valid via RZ's wonderful scheming!

RiTides wrote:

Boss Salvage wrote:Not seeing much excitement across the BRB, WoC, Skaven & Ogre (which I think is old) ones. Confirmed that third eye can steal all Life spells except regrowth, so Internets +1 on that one.

- Salvage

Yes! My new plan to deal with slanns (stay over 24" away from the slann, but within 24" of the unit, to try to cast dwellers below with IF) is still valid via RZ's wonderful scheming!

And since you can measure to your hearts content, it isn't even hard to do.

-Matt

Wow again? I'm not complaining but I think its going to be easier to just take my computer with them to my FLGS instead of printing them each month.

Just looked at the FAQ for 3rd eye. Thats pretty awesome. Now that it's been said that you can cast from lofre of life because the lore attribute isn't a part of the spell, could you then gain wounds back from the attribute since it's not the spell that does it? IIRC in the book it says you can't regain wounds from spells so it sounds like you can regain wounds since it's the attribute.

Meh, what's with GW going out of their way to make [the very few]"Immune to flames" rules to "+2 ward against flames?" Daemon players screaming too loudly over their Tzeentch magic/units? I know one Bret player who loves holding up the Watchtower from Pink Horrors with a single Lvl4 wizard with the Dragon's Claw.

A few nice clarifications for skaven.

Slight clarification to Waaaagh! for O&G, no biggie.

Vamps have to have a Vampire general again.

Ha! Attribute =/= spell. I knew it! Watch out, you fat frogs. My Sorcerers are going to be throwing your Dwellers right back at you!

Re: "immune to Flames" - at least they're going for consistency with that.

Jin wrote:Re: "immune to Flames" - at least they're going for consistency with that.

I was actually hoping they'd do the same with ethereal this edition; oh well.
I don't like the totally immune thing, I think making people roll dice is better.

-Matt

I would have liked things to stay immune, but they seem to want more flaming attacks in this edition, and are taking away the only real negative to it (immune to flaming units / items). Still, a 2+ save isn't a terrible trade...

The third eye entry:

GW FAQ wrote:
Q: Can a model with the Third Eye of Tzeentch cast any spells from the Lore of Life as the lore attribute allows him to recover Wounds lost earlier in the battle? (p111)
A: Yes, apart from Regrowth. The lore attribute’s effect is not part of the spell itself.

So yes, it is saying that he can use the lore attributes! That's awesome... could gain PD back from lore of death spells, trade places with another monstrous character after shadow spells, etc. Sweet

From the perspective of someone with lots of access to flaming attack upgrades, the 2+ ward is still plenty to keep me honest as far as upgrades go. When you only have the one cannon shot, you don't want it discounted 5/6 times, especially given you'll have relatively few opportunities to fire before things get stuck in.

Between those items, High Elves, and things like Blackened plate, I've stripped a rune of burning out of my artillery (to the delight of Wood Elf opponents).

My trees and trolls are both dancing for joy

That is good to hear... unfortunately, it hasn't curbed a lot of players around here from adding the flaming banner. I would have thought with artillery more than anything you'd keep the flaming, since you can just choose other targets. Units with the flaming banner, on the other hand, are begging to be charged by DP's...

Although I guess a good deployment strategy would be to put them as far away from that situation as possible

Well at least the unit has weight of attacks and static combat res to back them up. With artillery, you're putting everything on that one roll...

HawaiiMatt wrote:

Jin wrote:Re: "immune to Flames" - at least they're going for consistency with that.

I was actually hoping they'd do the same with ethereal this edition; oh well.
I don't like the totally immune thing, I think making people roll dice is better.

I think I agree with you there. I recall rumors of ethereal = T7+ at some point, but I would have gone with 2+ ward vs non-magical attaks or something to that effect. Very much in the vein of the 'immune to fire' items/nerfs. Not that I feel ethereal needs the nerf per se, but it keeps things consistent and dice reliant (so what you both note, rolled into one delicious burrito of a rule we didn't get!)

- Salvage

You would not beleive the arguments I have seen for the 3rd eye/lore of life attribute, by saying its not part of the spell, these people claim the attribute can't be used. This however violates the 3rd eye rules as the Lore of Metal signature spell needs this attribute to be used otherwise you can never use it. This flies in the face of the 3rd eye's RaW which states the sorcerer knows ALL the spells the target has as long as they don't revive or heal wounds.

The signature spell of Lore of Metal does not restore wounds so the Sorcerer has every right to use it if the target mage has it. The neysayers who say you can't use the attribute are by default saying you can't use that spell.

It gets very ugly from there.

Yup this time around fixing one problem created another.

HoverBoy wrote:Yup this time around fixing one problem created another.

I don't think it is a problem. The spell doesn't heal, the attribute does.

-Matt

Yes but now since they clearly stated the attribute isn't a part of the spell, the 3rd eye can't use any of the metal spells.

The attribute for the lore of metal causes the unit to be slowed down, doesn't it? They can only move at half their movement? I don't quite understand what the issue is.

The lore of metal is where it explains the "metal spells don't have a strength, but always wound on the armor save" thing.

Without that bit of information, the spells literally just say you get some hits, but don't explain how to wound. If you going by ultra literal RAW it means they can't wound, thus making some spells from the Lore of Metal essentially useless.

streamdragon wrote:Without that bit of information, the spells literally just say you get some hits, but don't explain how to wound. If you going by ultra literal RAW it means they can't wound, thus making some spells from the Lore of Metal essentially useless.

Note that I brought this up back when we were discussing Third Eye + Life, and was pretty much ignored. So I suppose I'm happy this complicated nugget of complication is back with us, complicating things

I do however want to know what the consensus on stolen spell attributes is. Metal, I'd say it has to be in because otherwise you're in a stupid RAW-esque place that is distinctly unsatisfying and dumb. Life, I'd prefer to rule out because of the intent of the Third Eye to disallow magic that heals (you are correct, "spell" != "attribute"). But then, what about Heavens anit-flyer attribute? Or Light's anti-demon attribute? It seems ... awkward that these spells don't function the same when cast by one model than by another. And frankly a lot about 7th edition books in 8th edition rules is awkward ...

- Salvage

I don't see an issue with using the lore attribute if the caster is using 3rd eye. You cast the a spell and the attribute activates if successfully cast. The only possible exception would be life's attribute. As Salvage has pointed out spell /= attribute, however the intent of 3rd eye is pretty clear. Dispite the intent of 3rd eye and some of the awkwardness of 7th ed army books and 8th I would go RAW (as I perceive it) and say its legal.

Its not so much using the attribute but more so when the attribute activates. As per the new FAQ, you may use Lore of Life spells because the attribute is not part of the spell. This means that when you cast a spell from the lore of life, if it is successful, then you can gain a wound back. All legal according to the way I am reading RAW.

However that interpretation breaks the lore of metal spells. I think thats what Steamdragon/Salvage are saying. If the attribute is not part of the spell, you cannot apply it during the spells casting, and then you have broken spells that do not have complete rulings. The new FAQ stating that lore attributes are not part of the spell was just a very poor choice of words.

Which is why he asked about the intention of the ruling in terms of attributes. In order to cast Lore of Metal spells, the attribute must be part of the spell, otherwise you have a broken spell. They need to reword the spells, or clarifiy it for anyone who intends to argue a strict RAW for Lore of Metal.

What I think they should have done was just put a qualifier in Third Eye instead of changing the attribute /= spell. They could have said that Third Eye may use all the spells in the Lore of Life except regrowth. This is likely how I will play it with friends. Allow them to cast from life, even allow the use of the attribute, just no regrowth. Obviously this is a house rule, but I think it allows playing of the game without completely breaking some things.

I think it's just an unfortunate wording choice... the lore attribute applies, but is not technically "part of the spell".

Anything else requires you to make an exception for one lore or the other (comparing Life and Metal).

I don't currently have my BRB with me and going off of memory, so I don't quite understand how using lore of metal via 3rd eye breaks the game. I'll just leave it for now until I can take a look at this tonight.