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I voted in a 40k vs star trek poll. This, must be what it feels like to be lonely. To be a perpetual virgin. I dont like this feeling at all

Oh come on, you haven't even put forth several extensive posts justifying your choice.

NO...MUST RESIST......CANNOT ARGH
40k has bigger ships, more dudes, and space marines. Just sheer numbers and absurdity. Plus the federation is a practical utopia. Most of their civilians are pussies. I bet your average imperial citizen could beat the hell out of your average star trek dude just because he is braindead from nothing but durr hurr emperor propaganda all his life. Plus his life is probably rough and he doesnt eat much. It would be like dumping the population of the most politically correct, left wing city in the some ultra high crime african city at night. Let the underhives loose, tell them they can keep whatever they find. InB4 gangers drinking unlimited amounts of romulan ale from a replicator.

'BUT WAIT, MY SHIPS CAN GO FASTER THEYD RUN RINGS AROUND YOURS AND PEWPEWPEW THEM TO DEATH DURRHURRHURRHURR'
Cool story bro, Watch the imperium send some fuckhuge fleet to a few planets, trek comes running to save them, but wait it was a distraction and they exterminatus earth oh gak time paradox emperor never exists and the orks assimilate the borg.


Star wars can blow me. I dont car if it can win, the basic universe was designed for 10 year olds, the only cool guys being that bounty hunter and han solo. Star Trek, I loved TNG when I was in kindergarten, and watched it again a lot when i was about 15, but cannot watch more then 2 episodes a month. And speaking of star trek, the original series movie 'returning home' about the whales was terrible. Gene Rodenberry, lick my massive pair of endangered species. GW could rewrite blood angels as being worse then they already are, an accomplishment in its own right. But rather then emogoth vampire pussies who still cant quit going into fits of bawww over their primarch they make them worse. Everyone says ultrines are the worst, but they are alright when you look at the fluff. Anyone who hates them got beat up in gym class and thus hates overachievers in all their forms, including the poster army for our manchild games. Anyhoo these horrible blood angels re writes could still be better then coming home. Trekkies should quit this thread based on that.



All seriousness aside I was at a 40k tournament inside a larger nerd convention. You havent died inside until, within the same 5 minutes you witnessed a live guitar hero/rock band competition AND star wars vs star trek debate. They had baba fott, 2 jedi, and some storm troopers arguing it up with random turtleneck guys about ship speed and whos lazors pew pewed harder. This was in a lecture hall with about 200 people watching. Me and my last round opponent looked at each other and said 'least we arent these douche bags'.

Things in the ST universe that would hammer the Imperium or the 40K universe.

*Organians
*Energy beings that stopped the Gorn and Enterprise
*Q
*First Federation
*Federation fleet vs. Imperium sector fleets in open space. Fed fleets just dance and shoot. If there's no time limit its the Comanches vs. US Army on the open plain.

Things in the 40K universe that would smash the Federation or the main ppowers (Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Dominion)
-Imperial Navy jumping from warp over Earth or major planets.
-Ork Fleet same to same
-Nids, anywhere.

Not because they are technically advanced but because they are like the Russians in WWII. The ST guys can blast and blast and never get enough to stop the horde before it lands/obliterates a fixed target. Thats the ST's Achilles Heal-they can't stop major 40K forces from taking out their planets. Again with a fixed target its COmanches vs. US Army, but this time its the Comaanches trying to stop the US Army from getting to their village. Can't stop the juggernaut.

Just remember, kids that the closest world to Earth with this "superimosed" or "double layer" universe is Terra. Terra has more ships, guardsmen, titans, ect than anywhere in the galaxy. By my calculations aprox 200 billion G-men and at least 2 SM chapters are stationed at terra, which is guarded by Luna, the Imperium's largest naval base. Then there's Mars, which would be, if anything, harder to attack. If anyone was worried about the mustering time, all the Imperium has to do is empty out one port and outnumber Starfleet 2:1 with the finest ships in the galaxy.

That is, if they are willing to leave Holy Terra undefended.

sniperjolly wrote:

That is, if they are willing to leave Holy Terra undefended.

Whats star fleet gonna do? Overwhelm the Custodes with red shirts?

It's numbers like that which provide all the Lulz in this thread...

200 billion guardsmen
+8 billion naval crew (assume 25:1 ratio for guardsmen)
+50 billion non-combatants (assume 4:1 for support staff, clergy, astropaths, medical personnel etc)
+150 billion civilians (assume 3:1 civilians, family members, etc spread over the non-combatants and ranking officers)

Hurr... H'ok. So we have 408 billion people (not counting Mars, not counting Luna)

Each human consumes an average of 3.63kg of food and an average of 2L of water each day. As Terra is a hive world, each day, Terra must import:

1481 million tons of food and 816 billion litres of water. (To keep in persepctive, that is 1619x the Earth's free-running freshwater, 324x the Earth's total freshwater, and 0.000065% of the Earth's total water reserves. China - a largely aggrarian based produced 788 million tons of foodstuffs in 1999.)

Yes... these numbers are Lulz, because, no matter how you slice it, they make no sense whatsoever.

Sniperjolly, would you mind telling us what data you base your estimate of 200 billion on? It seems quite unnecessarily high.

keezus wrote:Yes... these numbers are Lulz, because, no matter how you slice it, they make no sense whatsoever.

Based on your in depth knowledge of food production and water recycling in galaxy spanning empires that exist millenia in the future?

The population of Terra as it is said on German lexicanum is 10 trillion.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

keezus wrote:Yes... these numbers are Lulz, because, no matter how you slice it, they make no sense whatsoever.

Based on your in depth knowledge of food production and water recycling in galaxy spanning empires that exist millenia in the future?

Sorry Dr. Orkeosaurus: My knowledge stops at the 21st century. Please. Feel free to elighten me.

All of the water is recycled by the "Adeptus Hydroliciouses", and they grow all the food in "AgriFabs". Neither the people who made those things up nor the people who actually exist in the universe know what either of those things are.

This stand in stark contrast to tecnology in Star Trek, that allows populations to be supported with Quantum Neutrarion Reclapsation Fields, which are totally based on real science.

Food in 40k is grown on some hive worlds in form of algae.

Orkeosaurus wrote:All of the water is recycled by the "Adeptus Hydroliciouses", and they grow all the food in "AgriFabs". Neither the people who made those things up nor the people who actually exist in the universe know what either of those things are.

This stand in stark contrast to tecnology in Star Trek, that allows populations to be supported with Quantum Neutrarion Reclapsation Fields, which are totally based on real science.

You almost had me there... but everyone knows that the only things that actually consume food in the 41st millenium are the Tyranids. For everyone else there is only war.

This whole thread could have been avoided if Captain Picard had rerouted the tea, earl grey, hot through the plasma injectors bypassing the Hoffman field compensators into the inverse phase manifold thereby generating a quantum dechyon pulse which could be directed through the main defelector... thus collapsing this anomaly and reparing the dimensional incursion and restoring local space time.

"Make it so".




Automatically Appended Next Post:

IvanTih wrote:Food in 40k is grown on some hive worlds in form of algae.

That's what they want you to think:

glory wrote:Sniperjolly, would you mind telling us what data you base your estimate of 200 billion on? It seems quite unnecessarily high.

possibly a typo, but one sorce listed Terra's population as 100 trillion, and givin the earth's current militirazation of 6,000,000,000:18,000,000 I worked out about 200 billion.

100 Trillion. Where do they fit them all. The whole planet would like India, stacked on top of china.

100 trillion sounds OTT.
Terra is not even a hive world, it's more of a shrine world. And those Hive Worlds are reported to have 20-30 billion tops.

sniperjolly wrote:

glory wrote:Sniperjolly, would you mind telling us what data you base your estimate of 200 billion on? It seems quite unnecessarily high.

possibly a typo, but one sorce listed Terra's population as 100 trillion, and givin the earth's current militirazation of 6,000,000,000:18,000,000 I worked out about 200 billion.

Okay, thank you.

100 trillion is about 10 000x the current population of Earth (round it up to 10 billion), just so everyone has an idea of how their hometown would look. The most densely populated city is Mumbai, with about 30 000 residents per square kilometer (link). The Earth has a surface area of about 500 million sqkm, of which 70% is water (link). Assuming the entire surface, including oceans, is covered with buildings, you'd need a population density of about 200 000 people per sqkm, a mere 6x more crowded than the most densely populated city today. Basically, you'd have to cover the entire surface of the planet in skyscrapers. Tall ones too, I think.

On an unrelated note, I had a look at keezus' numbers on food consumption, for his estimate of 408 billion people. Assuming that the food has a density similar to that of water (which it mostly is made out of), 1481 million tonnes of food fills a volume of about 1x1x1.5 km. That's a big pile, but considering the size of Imperial ships it's not an impossibly big one. Given that transports are among the smaller sizes of Imperial ships, I'm guesstimating that about half a dozen would be required to carry the food. Given an average traveltime of about a month (inside a sector), you only need about 200 transports to carry the food. And a further 200 transports to carry the waste back to those worlds, unless you're willing to transport your food around in a former septic tank.
The earth produces about 105 billion tonnes of biomass every year, with a total biomass of about 4 000 billion tonnes(link). So, with an annual consumption of about 547 billion tonnes of food, the Terra of year 40k would require only half a dozen agriworlds to feed it, assuming that the entire biosphere of those worlds is harnessed into food production. Since algae account for most of the growth on Earth, and the Imperials know how to make food out of that, it's not impossible.

Edited for speling

@Glory: Nice post

Ok. So it is possible. Is it just me, or does it seem retardedly impractical. As none of the other planets in the Segmentum Solar are farming worlds - and since Mars and Luna are inhabited by billions more, one might think that there is a veritable endless stream of ships travelling to and from the Sol system bearing food, gak and ocassionaly water. (I'm guessing that most of the original usable water in the Sol system is probably exhausted by the 41st, recycling or not).

One errant warp storm, PIRATES, Smugglers, or CULTISTS delaying or hijacking said shipments... depending on the frequency of resupply - the whole place would be in an uproar as millions (maybe even billions) starve to death. Of course, one could assign formidiable fleets to guard said shipments (and have to feed the crews, maintain the ships)... The whole system gets unwieldy in a hurry.

-edit- While the logistics of the Imperium are ridiculously impractical (at least to me)... that's not the most slowed part. When I think about all the dudes that they feed to the Emprah, I struggle to contain the Lulz. Instead of BREEDING psykers to feed the Emprah... they send dudes all over the imperium to LOOK for psykers, put them through this screening process and then feed the leftovers to the Emprah. Considering that the Emprah eats 1000's of these dudes a day, and the incidence of human psykers is not high... you wonder who was the brilliant mind that thought up this nugget of fluff.

I quite agree that the numbers are ridiculous. However, they do seem to be in the realm of the possible, however improbable. Water isn't that huge an issue, since you can mine the comets and the Oort cloud etc., assuming their water recycling systems are reasonably good. I just don't see the pint with such a population density, unless you're using that workforce to dismantle moons for raw materials to the industry. The manufacturing capacity of the Solar system must be quite ridiculous, which in turn would explain the shipbuilding capacity of the Imperium. (Alternately you could have them all praying, which ought to attract the attention of the most senile and deaf of gods. )

Does anyone happen to know where the Imperium harvests raw materials from? Asteroids, small moons?

I don't know that you can breed psykers. The only time I've heard of that happening is with the Navigator Houses (and they're not really your conventional psykers).

At any rate, the Imperium needs to eliminate psykers from their worlds in any case. They need to bring huge amounts of psykers for Terra so they can go through the soul binding process as well, and to power the Astronomicon, so it might not be too difficult to have the emperor eat some of them.

My guess would be Terra is stocked with supplies to last for years and years. I mean, they have been the capital of the Imperium since its foundation.

As for fitting 10 trillion people on it (or 100 trillion), that might be pretty difficult (and a little inconsistent with a lot of the other numbers), but not impossible. Terra is probably second only to Mars on the technological scale. There isn't an ocean any more, so the entire surface area is usable for city building. There are also tons of orbital stations and fleets to hold that population.

Crops can be grown artificially; as Ivan noted, nutrient dense algae is used a lot on hive worlds. The huge population is a huge population to be constructing and maintaining equipment as well, with the greatest specialists in the galaxy probably working on it. Waste is certainly going to be recycled and the nutrients broken down for agriculture. Water is going to be recycled. After all, we don't have ships importing and exporting food and water and waste now.

While the natural recycling abilities of the planet probably couldn't handle 10 trillion people, the artificial recycling abilities of a planet that has the technology for plasma weaponry, anti-gravity, disruption fields, teleportation, force fields, genetic engineering to a huge degree, laser guns, faster than light travel and communication, skyscraper high bipedal warmachines, and nation sized battleships should be good enough to reduce outside assistance to a minimal level.

Star Trek could probably win even without the Q continuum. The Douwd (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Douwd) could probably wipe out all 40k not hiding in the Eye of Terror or the Webway.

Yep. Star Trek has a ton of omnipotent or near-omnipotent beings running around, from the Q, to the Douwd, to the Organians. The Chaos Gods and C'Tan are pretty impressive, but none of their feats are anywhere near as powerful as any of that. I certainly never saw a C'Tan wave his hand and make entire fleets inoperative, annihilate entire races, or travel through time.

As an aside, I'm not trying to argue that Starfleet ships can damage the Imperial ships... only that I think that I've overestimated the power of 40k ship weapons. I need evidence of material damage to recalculate the ranges of power for Imperial ships, and from there, extrapolate the defensive capabilities of void shields.

Re: Connor's calcs. Please provide a link for review.

Here you go.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=123079

I do not think that the Galactic Empire stands a chance against the Imperium due to relative fleet strengths... so I'm interested in seeing what he bases his conclusion on. His conclusion that the Glactic Empire would win seems to shed doubt on his whole analysis.

That's not his conclusion, but the general consensus elsewhere. The Galactic Empire has absolutely insane numbers of ships. At a best guess, the Imperium has something in the neighborhood of several hundred thousand to a few million warships (discounting system monitors). The Galactic Empire, though, has a ridiculous number. I forgot if it's tens of millions or hundreds of millions, but in either case, it's way more than the Imperium. And their FTL is faster, too, as well as reliable. So the Empire could easily pick and choose their fights and carve up the smaller Imperial fleets. They've also got a longterm advantage, in that they have a superior industrial capacity. They can keep building Death Stars and Super Star Destroyers til they're blue in the face, while some of the largest and most powerful Imperial ships are lost technology. They're rare and irreplaceable. All of that looks like good reason to me to believe that the Empire could thrash the Imperium.

Star Wars? Yeah, I'd put them as the winners against The Imperium. Their ships are at least a tenth of the power of the Imperium's, and they can concentrate them and produce them a lot more easily.

The Imperium would have to win by targeting Emperor Palpatine or something or something else unconventional.

Agreed. In a conventional war, there's no way the Imperium can take it. They'd have to do something crazy like eliminate the Empire's top-tier command structure. Either way, they'd have to win fast, because if the Empire digs in for a longterm war, they're done for.

Whats star fleet gonna do? Overwhelm the Custodes with red shirts?

LMAO! I'd pay real money to see that one.

100 Trillion. Where do they fit them all. The whole planet would like India, stacked on top of china.

Hive cities, friend. Check out Hive Primus from Necromunda. Almost 10 miles to the top.

100 trillion sounds OTT.
Terra is not even a hive world, it's more of a shrine world. And those Hive Worlds are reported to have 20-30 billion tops.

Actually, yep, Terra is a hive world. And hive worlds do have far more than 20-30 billion people on them. In one of Gav Thorpe's novels, a Guardsman (I forgot who. Kage, maybe?) tells a Tau delegation that he comes from a Hive City with 13 billion living in it, and that there're nine such cities on his world. In the Dark Heresy RPG book, the planet of Scintilla has two hive cities, and a total population of 25 billion. The 5th edition rulebook gives an example of a hive world, Minea, which has a population of 154 billion. According to the 3rd eidtion rulebook, Hive Worlds have populations ranging from 100-500 billion people. That's backed up, again in the 5th edition rulebook, which states that "Each hiveworld is home to many hundred billion citizens, crammed into towering urban conglomerations, known as hives". Check out this wiki article on hive worlds.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Hive_World

Can someone show me support for the numbers of Imperium ships being quoted here? Per fluff the AM doen't exactly produce these ships in mass quantities.

I'm referencing ShadowPoint, the main ships of the line were less than 50 (I believe that was the battle of Shindelegiest could be wrong-this is from memory). I'm not holding Imperium numbers to that limited scale, but we need some support for the numbers of Imperium ships being batted about.

Frazzled wrote:Can someone show me support for the numbers of Imperium ships being quoted here? Per fluff the AM doen't exactly produce these ships in mass quantities.

I'm referencing ShadowPoint, the main ships of the line were less than 50 (I believe that was the battle of Shindelegiest could be wrong-this is from memory). I'm not holding Imperium numbers to that limited scale, but we need some support for the numbers of Imperium ships being batted about.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=108388&highlight=40k

BTW: It isn't just the Adeptus Mechanicus that builds ships. According to the BFG rules, there're four main sources for Imperial Navy ships. 1) They're floating hulks found in space or floating in the warp (which likely date from the Dark Age of Technology, and as a result, and actually pretty awesome despite what one may think), 2) They're built by planetary overlords as part of their tithes to the Imperium (they have to tithe not only men to the Imperial Guard, but ships to the Imperial Navy), 3) Shipyards controlled by the Imperial Navy at their major bases, and 4) The Adeptus Mechanicus.

An interesting case for a ship being built by a planetary governor was the Lord Daros, a Lunar Class Cruiser. Here's the story behind it:

The uncomplicated design of this class ensures its enduring utility, enabling vessels to be built at hive and industrial worlds normally unable to muster the expertise to construct a capital ship. Perhaps the most remarkable example of this is the Lord Daros, constructed at the feral world of Unloth. The primitive tribesmen dwelling there were influenced to mine and smelt metals which were then presented for 'sacrifice' at sky temples established by the Planetary Lord. The raw materials were then lifted into orbit at each vernal equinox. After a period of eleven years the tribes were rewarded for their effort with the sight of a bright new star moving across the heaves as the Lord Daros boosted out-system to join Battlefleet Obscurus.

TheEmperor wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Can someone show me support for the numbers of Imperium ships being quoted here? Per fluff the AM doen't exactly produce these ships in mass quantities.

I'm referencing ShadowPoint, the main ships of the line were less than 50 (I believe that was the battle of Shindelegiest could be wrong-this is from memory). I'm not holding Imperium numbers to that limited scale, but we need some support for the numbers of Imperium ships being batted about.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=108388&highlight=40k

Okay, this is a new essay, and this will be more interactive than the last. The purpose? To more thoroughly analyze and quantify the space based assets (warp capable and not) of the Imperium of Man. Its not, to my knowledge, has not been very well defined. But the potential (or estimated potential) is staggering, at least to prior beliefs or estimates.

Made it that far before I had to quit reading. I think the issue with 40k vs star trek is the number of WTF hax creatures out there. Ctan, warp gods, alpha plus psykers, and crazy star trek critters. The nice thing about 40k vs star wars is you can balance the galaxies out more. Remove gods and really good psykers from 40k and you basically have an equal universe.

Whatever the case, I'm thinking 1 million ships is a nice, safe number to go with. Especially since it'd be consistent with the way GW does things. "1 million worlds in the Imperium, 1 million Space Marines, and 1 million ships". I can see them putting down to paper the idea of 1 warship for each world, as they've already got 1 Space Marine for each world.

And speaking for myself, I find it hard to imagine any less. As mentioned before, every world is obligated to contribute ships to the Imperial Navy as part of their tithe. That's in addition to the ships that the Imperial Navy builds on its own, as well as those it receives from the Adeptus Mechanicus. I find it hard to believe that, after 10,000 years of building ships for the Imperial Navy, that each world hasn't contributed at least one ship that hasn't survived to this day.

TheEmperor wrote:Whatever the case, I'm thinking 1 million ships is a nice, safe number to go with.

Probably more, how big is the Imperium?

BFG goes into a breakdown of the fleets across space thusly; (and I'm paraphrasing)

For each cube of 200ly per side there is at least one sector fleet of between 50 - 75 warp capable ships, obviously as each sector varies on number of important worlds the number of fleets increase. So if you know the size of Imperial Space, multiply by 50 - 75.

Andrew

Orkeosaurus wrote:They need to bring huge amounts of psykers for Terra so they can go through the soul binding process as well, and to power the Astronomicon, so it might not be too difficult to have the emperor eat some of them.

There in lies the Lulz of the situation...

Step 1. Go to a planet
Step 1a. Search planet for Psyker... If no psykers found, go back to the start... otherwise, go to Step 2.
Step 2. Capture said psyker without killing them. (This would probably eliminate 75% of all candidates as some would remain unfound, where as others might go to Chaos or various cults with or without being found, and others would die from natural or unnatural causes, or when resisting capture.)
Step 2a. If you managed to capture a live psyker, go to Step 3... otherwise, go back to the start.
Step 3. Ship his/her sorry arse back to Terra.
Step 3a. If they survived the trip, go to step 4... otherwise, go back to the start.
Step 4. Run 'em through the Psyker guantlet to determine which ones go to the inquisition, which one's get crammed into the Astronomicon and which ones become the Emprah's mindight snack.
Step 5. ???
Step 6. Profit.

I mean... there's got to be a better way to do this than combing the galaxy for these dudes... First off, it doesn't exactly provide a STEADY stream of psykers to Terra... given search times, travel times, untimely deaths etc... (granted, it'd even out over the entire Imperium) The effort expended is hillarious in its scale.

Orkeosaurus wrote:While the natural recycling abilities of the planet probably couldn't handle 10 trillion people, the artificial recycling abilities of a planet that has the technology for plasma weaponry, anti-gravity, disruption fields, teleportation, force fields, genetic engineering to a huge degree, laser guns, faster than light travel and communication, skyscraper high bipedal warmachines, and nation sized battleships should be good enough to reduce outside assistance to a minimal level.

I dunno about that... considering the amount of trouble said "advanced" Imperium is having in their ongoing war against a certain race of t-shirt wearing green men who travel slowly and RANDOMLY around the universe fighting everybody... (including each other) armed with axes and crude projectile weapons... You'd think that a civilization (and I use that term loosely) with all that technology would curbstomp the Orks into the next life considering a Choppa is the pinacle of Ork technology and some of them haven't even discovered fire yet (Snakebites). I contend that while the Imperium HAS advanced technology... their lack of understanding about how it works prevents them from properly applying said technology... to their detriment.

keezus wrote:There in lies the Lulz of the situation...

Step 1. Go to a planet
Step 1a. Search planet for Psyker... If no psykers found, go back to the start... otherwise, go to Step 2.
Step 2. Capture said psyker without killing them. (This would probably eliminate 75% of all candidates as some would remain unfound, where as others might go to Chaos or various cults with or without being found, and others would die from natural or unnatural causes, or when resisting capture.)
Step 2a. If you managed to capture a live psyker, go to Step 3... otherwise, go back to the start.
Step 3. Ship his/her sorry arse back to Terra.
Step 3a. If they survived the trip, go to step 4... otherwise, go back to the start.
Step 4. Run 'em through the Psyker guantlet to determine which ones go to the inquisition, which one's get crammed into the Astronomicon and which ones become the Emprah's mindight snack.
Step 5. ???
Step 6. Profit.

I mean... there's got to be a better way to do this than combing the galaxy for these dudes... First off, it doesn't exactly provide a STEADY stream of psykers to Terra... given search times, travel times, untimely deaths etc... (granted, it'd even out over the entire Imperium) The effort expended is hillarious in its scale.

Yeah, it would be ridiculus if they sent a single ship to pick up a single psyker, and then shipped that one psyker back all alone in that ship. But they don't. They pick up many, many psykers. These are planets with billions and billions of people on them, they're going to be able to get a hold of thousands of psykers. They don't just pick them up one at a time, unless they're after a notable individual.

And they want psykers to be killed if not captured, so their effort hasn't been wasted if killing one is all they can do.

I dunno about that... considering the amount of trouble said "advanced" Imperium is having in their ongoing war against a certain race of t-shirt wearing green men who travel slowly and RANDOMLY around the universe fighting everybody...

Their travel isn't always random. The Imperium fights against Waaaghs, not random Freebootas. Orks navigate when they need to (weirdboys do it for them). They have extensive fleets, and can coordinate to a fair enough degree when they need to.

(including each other) armed with axes and crude projectile weapons...

And tanks, ray guns, space ships, powered armor, teleportation devices, artillery, rocket launchers, submarines, force fields, gargants...

You'd think that a civilization (and I use that term loosely) with all that technology would curbstomp the Orks into the next life considering a Choppa is the pinacle of Ork technology

Demonstrably untrue.

and some of them haven't even discovered fire yet (Snakebites).

Snakebites have combustion engines. And even feral orks are capable of building titan equivalents.

I contend that while the Imperium HAS advanced technology... their lack of understanding about how it works prevents them from properly applying said technology... to their detriment.

In some places. Not on Terra. The planet is in the same system as Mars, the technological capital of the empire. If the Imperium has technology anywhere, it's on Mars. If technology on Mars is neccesary for Terra, it's probably on Terra. We're not talking about the Eastern Fringe.

TheEmperor wrote:

100 trillion sounds OTT.
Terra is not even a hive world, it's more of a shrine world. And those Hive Worlds are reported to have 20-30 billion tops.

Actually, yep, Terra is a hive world. And hive worlds do have far more than 20-30 billion people on them. In one of Gav Thorpe's novels, a Guardsman (I forgot who. Kage, maybe?) tells a Tau delegation that he comes from a Hive City with 13 billion living in it, and that there're nine such cities on his world. In the Dark Heresy RPG book, the planet of Scintilla has two hive cities, and a total population of 25 billion. The 5th edition rulebook gives an example of a hive world, Minea, which has a population of 154 billion. According to the 3rd eidtion rulebook, Hive Worlds have populations ranging from 100-500 billion people. That's backed up, again in the 5th edition rulebook, which states that "Each hiveworld is home to many hundred billion citizens, crammed into towering urban conglomerations, known as hives". Check out this wiki article on hive worlds.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Hive_World

Ah, yes. Sorry about that, I think I was looking at the RECRUITING numbers from the BRB.

But where are you getting the numbers for that vast amount of Galactic Empire ships?