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How about the Omega 13?

now back to the terminator question and borg heres the answer on how it would happen.

Injection Tubules
Two clawlike extensions implanted in the arm or hand of a drone. These tubules are capable of penetrating any known alloy or energy field. These tubules are used to inject nanoprobes to assimilate the cells by reprogramming the DNA sequence. This is the first stage of the assimilation process. They can also be used to penetrate and take control of computer systems.....


So a Group of three drones teleports on to a battle barge( do they have shields??) IDK since i dont play Gothic, just 40k. So if no shields they have complete freedom to come and go off imperium ships.
Assimilating the ship or if the tech is too low tech for them they just destroy it.

Not always. The nanos didn't work for species whatever that then proceeded to kick the beejesus out of the Borg.

species 8472 from fluidic space... episodes 326-401 in star trek voyager... they resist borg assimilation because the creatures immune system attacked any and all intruders. I'd have to believe that the space marines enhanced metabolism could do the same, or at least fight it off long enough for an apothecary to deal with it.

StarGate wrote:One word Genesis, that will end all discuss, If the federation could make a device like that,(even if it doesnt work full) doesnt that tell you they can do alot more damage too the imperuim .....

Like Bone's said God made the earth in 6 days, but now look out world we have Genesis we can make it in 6 hours....

And yes they had perfected it later on in the book series.

Point 1: Genesis has not reared it's head in the Star Trek universe since that movie. I'm inclined to believe they gave up on the prospect.

Point 2: Furthermore in Star Trek the Books ARE NOT canon. Only TV Series and Films are officially recognized as canon. If we're gonna start breaking Canon, then I say the Federation has to fight The Emperor, all Twenty Primarchs, 1000 Marine Legions, the Eldar, Tyranids, Orks, and the Forces of Chaos. See what happens when we go down that road?

Point 3: Given the mentality of the Federation they'd never use it even in they had it. They're not gonna go wiping out whole worlds to fight the Imperium killing billions of civilians. This also assumes they'd actually ATTACK their enemy on their own ground which I have yet to see the Federation ever do. The Federation plays like the South in the Civil War. They stand around and do little to nothing till someone comes in and pick s a fight and then they get their butts whooped till a out of no where plot twist saves them. But against a relentless enemy like the Imperium this strategy would work for them as well as it did for Jefferson Davis, primarily that they keep getting hammered until they ultimately have nothing left to fight with.

Also dont forget there phasing cloak( that can pass thur matter)

The Federation is banned from using Cloak. They have two devices on loan from an ally (or do they only have one after the Defiant got blow up? Did they get a replacement?), and their on puny ships that can't do any real damage to something eight kilometers long.

just think of the things you can do with it Quantum torpedoes, and the best one of all
Tricobalt devices( The tricobalt warhead is a subspace weapon whose high-yield detonations can tear holes in subspace. Tricobalt devices are not a standard armament of Federation vessels and yields are calculated in Tera-Cochranes.) basiclly there outlawed due to the damage they cause too space /time. So

Tricobalts are not standard on Federation ships in canon. They're relatively new and are only used on a few designs, namely the Sovereign and Akira classes. And the Imperium has these too in the form of Vortex Missiles, and overall the yield of Imperial weapons dwarfs the yield of Federation weapons.

StarGate wrote:now back to the terminator question and borg heres the answer on how it would happen.

Injection Tubules
Two clawlike extensions implanted in the arm or hand of a drone. These tubules are capable of penetrating any known alloy or energy field. These tubules are used to inject nanoprobes to assimilate the cells by reprogramming the DNA sequence. This is the first stage of the assimilation process. They can also be used to penetrate and take control of computer systems.....


So a Group of three drones teleports on to a battle barge( do they have shields??) IDK since i dont play Gothic, just 40k. So if no shields they have complete freedom to come and go off imperium ships.
Assimilating the ship or if the tech is too low tech for them they just destroy it.

Imperial ships have shields. The Borg would not assimilate Imperial technology found on Imperial ships because there really isn't anything new on them for the Borg to find interesting (except maybe the power generation system). The Imperials are less technologically advanced than their Star Trek counterparts, the thing that leads me to believe they'd win in a fight is just that their weapons pack a lot of boom and their ships are massive and their numbers are likewise massive.

You can't hold ST to their own morals when stressed in all at war. pretty quickly-anything goes, as evidenced by their maneuvers to get Romulus into the war, and their poisoning of the changelings.

Cloaks are illegal in use by treaty. Treaty doesn't apply to 40K, and they could quickly convert. These are humans after all. our morals are always frangible when the going gets rough.

Plays like the South in the Civil War? You must have missed the two invasions into yankee lands (that whole Gettysberg thing). We have little information on how the wars with the Klingons and Romulan empires were fought, but we do know the Feds invaded back to Cardassia to defeat Cardassia/Dominion.

As I hail myself Lord Tyrant I feel that I would win hands down. As the Cheese stands alone.

Isn't the Imperium much bigger than the federation?

Also, would the Fed ships be able to track Warp Movements?

40k beats everything with its grim dark OTTness.

Halo universe is nothing, star trek is nothing Star wars is nothing. All of them would be minor Crusades.

Grimdark always wins.

Frazzled wrote:You can't hold ST to their own morals when stressed in all at war. pretty quickly-anything goes, as evidenced by their maneuvers to get Romulus into the war, and their poisoning of the changelings.

Cloaks are illegal in use by treaty. Treaty doesn't apply to 40K, and they could quickly convert. These are humans after all. our morals are always frangible when the going gets rough.

So we can break canon? Sweet. That means I can pull any random crap I feel like and the whole debate descends into drivil. I've actually argued these sort of things before. Once you star breaking canon the whole thing become pointless. If the Federation doesn't fight like the Federation, then the Federation isn't winning, it's some Federationesque thing that's not the Federation and the whole debate is pointless.

Plays like the South in the Civil War? You must have missed the two invasions into yankee lands (that whole Gettysberg thing). We have little information on how the wars with the Klingons and Romulan empires were fought, but we do know the Feds invaded back to Cardassia to defeat Cardassia/Dominion.

Two invasions that were not supported by anyone other than Robert E Lee and a select few generals, many of whom were dead before Gettysburg. These "attacks" were half hearted and given little to no real resources by those in the top brass and were doomed to failure from the beginning. I call any strategy that proposes you can sit back and not launch a prime offensive a Southern Civil War strategy, because it's a strategy that cannot win.

The South WOULD have won the civil war, had they dedicated all of what they had to taking Washington at the onset. The North was not prepared for a war, and it took them longer to mobilize than the south. Had the south seized their initiative after the early battles of the war and marched on DC, they would have won, but they didn't and their ultimate unwillingness to launch a full attack on the north is what led to their defeat because they simple stood back and allowed themselves to be pounded.

The Federation fights much the same way, but has their random insane should not work but somehow does work plans to save them as well as technology primarily superior to that of the nations they fight in their own universe. This advantage might not be enough to save them in 40k given their poor track record in warfare (They don't even have the South primo advantage of vastly superior military leadership). The Second Battle of Chin'Toka shows great incompetence on the part of Federation leadership in planning battles, and no other battle proposes that they are actually any better than Chin'Toka showed them to be, as they usually attempt to win through numbers or technological superiority, which neither can be applied to a war against the Imperium whose technology though less advanced seems to pack ludicrously higher numbers in terms of hitting power and defense.

Star Fleet is not a war force. Put them against a real war force, and one that isn't falling apart the way the Cardassians and Klingons are, and they get crushed. If the Borg were to actually put sonme initiative into fighting the Federation, do you really think they'd lose? The Borg could take over the Alpha quadrant with ease, the only thing stopping them is that they never use their numberical advantage against the Federation or surrounding nations. Compare that to something the scale of the Imperium. Star Fleet couldn't possible win.

Ships coming and going from the Warp can't be intercepted. The Imperium could bypass the Federations meager fleets and directly attack their planets, which the Federation obviously has no real ability to remove an occupying planetary force once they've dug in.

PS: I disagree about Star Wars vs 40k. That's probably the most even Sci-Fi match up you can get, and it would ultimately come down the effectiveness of the Jedi and other force users against the Imperium.

See this is the 40K vs. ST writ small. The numberless hordes of warhammerlings eventually wear down the ST defenses, until they are forced to retreat and push the "Tzeentch says push this NOW" button...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
We agreed on SW vs. 40K as more interesting.

The thought that the South could have won had they invaded the North full on (despite having actually done so with Lee) go after the fortifications surrounding Washington is both the topic for another thread and, er not supportable.

Frazzled wrote:See this is the 40K vs. ST writ small. The numberless hordes of warhammerlings eventually wear down the ST defenses, until they are forced to retreat and push the "Tzeentch says push this NOW" button...

More or less. I also bring up the weapons again. 40k weapons shoot at ludicrously long ranges, while the effective combat range of ST ships is between 1 and 5 kilometers. Take that and the much smaller size of Star Trek ships and they'd not only be outnumbered but they'd be pushed around like a wee little baby trying to fight a sumo wrestler.

That's why I said earlier that ST vs most other science fiction universes doesn't stack well. ST is a much more realistic depiction of space travel and exploration than 40k and Star Wars, both of which have ludicrously high and unrealistic numbers attached to ships and weapons. They're very different beasts and though they can be compared and it can be fun, there odds are heavily against ST's favor because of the nature of its presentation and structure as a universe.

EDIT: I'd number it this way:

40k vs Star Wars: Even match up, very interesting
40k/Star Wars vs Star Trek: Uneven match up. Not that interesting at all.

For Star Trek the closest match ups would probably be Star Gate of the X universe. Maybe Homeworld? I don't know, maybe not Homeworld. I'd like to put Galactica in here but honestly I can't think of anything that stacks well against it. It's got one of the most realistic depictions of a sci fi universe and forgoes many of the sci fi space battle conventions like energy shield and energy weapons so I cant really think it would do well against any of the ones I can think of off the top of my head except maybe Ender's Game or Heinlein's Troopers.

Let's look at the ST vs 40k... SERIOUS.

If the Imperium of Man were to invade the Federation, nothing the Federation could do would be able to halt the Imperial juggernaut... for about a week.

The Imperial forces -would- however self destruct as they would have to conform to the somewhat more grounded realities of the Star Trek world. Logistics and supply trains, which are always conveniently ignored in 40k background would suddenly be critical problems. The huge and ponderous Imperial forces would be ammunition and fuel starved without resupply from the Forgeworlds, and FOOD would be at critical levels. Even stripping conquered worlds of all usable material would not be able to satiate the Imperial juggernaut...

Needing to scavenge for material would take away their greatest strength, which is EXTERMINATUS from orbit - forcing them to GARRISON and PACIFY the inhabitants first.

Without Exterminatus, the Imperial forces are really kicked down a notch, as force shields, energy weapons, and transporters are found a plenty on all Federation worlds. Some planets even have planetary defense shields which would really slow down the attackers.

Assuming that Starfleet didn't screw the pooch and waste their fleet hopelessly fighting the inital assault... They can marshal their forces to fight the increasingly more spread out Imperial forces - ambushing small task forces with concentrated 5:1 or 10:1 advantage. While the Star Trek ships are useless in a stand up fight, Warp speed hit and runs with torpedo attacks WILL wreck up any Imperial battle group as they have no chance to BRACE against such tactics.

Here are some other incredibly hillarious LOLZ techniques:

Drop out of warp and transport live torpedoes (or tri-cobalt devices if desired) directly to the engine rooms of capital ships... warp out.

Drop out of warp with 5-6 ships, tractor beam one capital ship and drag it into a second one, warp out.

Drag a pile of ASTEROIDS at warp speed, drop out of warp, cut tractors, jump to warp. Giving the gift of an inertia charged asteroid attack on a packed battlegroup in transit is always LULz.

Here's another hillarious one... drop an overloading warp core in the middle of their battlegroup... warp out.

Hit and run... but each one will cause damage that the pitiful Imperium of Man's tech priests soothing laments and litanies will be hard pressed to repair!

The longer the Imperial fleet can be delayed, the quicker it will be pacified, either from Captains turning traitor due to desperation, or entire navy crews staging mutinies due to extreme faitigue or hunger.

LordofHats wrote:

For Star Trek the closest match ups would probably be Star Gate of the X universe. Maybe Homeworld? I don't know, maybe not Homeworld. I'd like to put Galactica in here but honestly I can't think of anything that stacks well against it. It's got one of the most realistic depictions of a sci fi universe and forgoes many of the sci fi space battle conventions like energy shield and energy weapons so I cant really think it would do well against any of the ones I can think of off the top of my head except maybe Ender's Game or Heinlein's Troopers.

I think Galactica and B5 (or at least the humans on B5) are more comparable as well as Firefly (on a non jump basis). Both have a jump capability. Both use much slower craft otherwise, with guns, plasma, nukes, etc. The other races aremore advanced and there is more beam weaponry but its much more realistic. Both also have like real human emotions...

The max range of a naval phaser is shorter than the length of some IN ships. A nova cannon shell is the size of a skyscraper, and ye olde "weapon batteries" are high explosive railguns with hundreds of thousands of kilometers of range and are 1650 feet long (operated by humans on chains!) Absolutely everything is bigger, better, and MOAR GRIMMDARK! in BFG than in 40K.

This Goes Double Against Starfleet.

Best Imperial tactics include-
Exploiting ST's biggest weakness, no standing boots on the ground army. With zero tanks, artillery, heavy weapons, or atmospheric air support, any of the goofy warmachines and finely honed urban combat techniques in 40K would flatten any police, provincial or civillian resistance. Starfleet cant fight without a planet to be based at, and can't defend or take back territory on planets.

Pointing and laughing at the Feds unfermilliarity with the warp. Namely jumping in behind a system's defenses.

Ramming speed!

Pulling a Kryptmann and diverting a WAAAGH! or hive fleet in the ST universe's general direction.



Of course I will concede two points, but only two.

1. Q is omnipotent. Chaos/ Emps is not (HERESY!!!)
2. Plot armor. James Tiberius Motha****ing Kirk will pull something crazy out of nowhere and somehow shut the warp rift (or whatever) connecting the two, and the Imperials will either settle down and assimilate or form their own little enclave/empire.

In all likelyhood, the imperium would just ask for an alliance with the federation, and act confused when the destruction of all Vulcans, Klingons, and possibly Romulans is looked upon with hostility.

PS. The Federation does not possess warp tecnology, nor will it ever, having no active psykers.
The asteroid thing wouldent work because either they are dropped in the warp and dissolve because the warp/matter doesnt mix, or the IN fleet goes past it on another plane of reality.

PPS. Wait, is the astronomicon even visible?

keezus wrote:Let's look at the ST vs 40k... SERIOUS.

If the Imperium of Man were to invade the Federation, nothing the Federation could do would be able to halt the Imperial juggernaut... for about a week.

The Imperial forces -would- however self destruct as they would have to conform to the somewhat more grounded realities of the Star Trek world. Logistics and supply trains, which are always conveniently ignored in 40k background would suddenly be critical problems. The huge and ponderous Imperial forces would be ammunition and fuel starved without resupply from the Forgeworlds, and FOOD would be at critical levels. Even stripping conquered worlds of all usable material would not be able to satiate the Imperial juggernaut...

Needing to scavenge for material would take away their greatest strength, which is EXTERMINATUS from orbit - forcing them to GARRISON and PACIFY the inhabitants first.

Without Exterminatus, the Imperial forces are really kicked down a notch, as force shields, energy weapons, and transporters are found a plenty on all Federation worlds. Some planets even have planetary defense shields which would really slow down the attackers.

Assuming that Starfleet didn't screw the pooch and waste their fleet hopelessly fighting the inital assault... They can marshal their forces to fight the increasingly more spread out Imperial forces - ambushing small task forces with concentrated 5:1 or 10:1 advantage. While the Star Trek ships are useless in a stand up fight, Warp speed hit and runs with torpedo attacks WILL wreck up any Imperial battle group as they have no chance to BRACE against such tactics.

Here are some other incredibly hillarious LOLZ techniques:

Drop out of warp and transport live torpedoes (or tri-cobalt devices if desired) directly to the engine rooms of capital ships... warp out.

Drop out of warp with 5-6 ships, tractor beam one capital ship and drag it into a second one, warp out.

Drag a pile of ASTEROIDS at warp speed, drop out of warp, cut tractors, jump to warp. Giving the gift of an inertia charged asteroid attack on a packed battlegroup in transit is always LULz.

Here's another hillarious one... drop an overloading warp core in the middle of their battlegroup... warp out.

Hit and run... but each one will cause damage that the pitiful Imperium of Man's tech priests soothing laments and litanies will be hard pressed to repair!

The longer the Imperial fleet can be delayed, the quicker it will be pacified, either from Captains turning traitor due to desperation, or entire navy crews staging mutinies due to extreme faitigue or hunger.

All those plans are rendered worthless by the fact that the Imperium has shields on their ships. Star Trek style teleportation doesn't go through shields very well. More so, how effective would the small Star Fleet ordanence be against ships the size of those used by the imperium? You'd need a lot of bombs. Plus, not too many Star Fleet designs have a spar warp core (by that I mean none). They can't go to warp after dumping theirs. Star Fleet is still limited by number, and the fact their leadership is incompetent and probably wouldn't even think of the plan anyway (granted it's not a bad one).

The Imperials do in fact address logistics and such if you've ever read any of the books (which in 40k are canon unlike the ST conterparts). They have huge supply lines.

The astroids one is especially clever, but again, 40k ships are big and designed to be hit hard. You'd need a huge astroid, possibly one larger than most Federation ships could pull.

And I forgot about B5 and Firefly, darn me XD.

Earthforce at time of B5 season 3 vs. Cylon battle fleet at time of Colony attack.

yea baby, Base stars popping nukes left and right vs. earth destroyers uncapping their primaries. All the while star furies furball with Cylon raiders. Me likey.

keezus wrote:Let's look at the ST vs 40k... SERIOUS.

If the Imperium of Man were to invade the Federation, nothing the Federation could do would be able to halt the Imperial juggernaut... for about a week.

The Imperial forces -would- however self destruct as they would have to conform to the somewhat more grounded realities of the Star Trek world. Logistics and supply trains, which are always conveniently ignored in 40k background would suddenly be critical problems. The huge and ponderous Imperial forces would be ammunition and fuel starved without resupply from the Forgeworlds, and FOOD would be at critical levels. Even stripping conquered worlds of all usable material would not be able to satiate the Imperial juggernaut...

What?

Why would they be critical problems now? The Imperium fights in protracted campaigns against things like Tyranids and Orks without running into your mass starvation problem. Tell me why Imperial ships would be unable to refuel and store food sufficiently. Explain what makes this different, and no "the universe is more realistic" BS, people in 40k can starve and run out of fuel, but their fleets generally don't, and they won't in the Star Trek universe unless something changes.

Needing to scavenge for material would take away their greatest strength, which is EXTERMINATUS from orbit - forcing them to GARRISON and PACIFY the inhabitants first.

Without Exterminatus, the Imperial forces are really kicked down a notch, as force shields, energy weapons, and transporters are found a plenty on all Federation worlds. Some planets even have planetary defense shields which would really slow down the attackers.

Except, as noted, for the fact that all of the weaponry in Warhammer 40k is magnitudes more powerful than Star Trek.

Assuming that Starfleet didn't screw the pooch and waste their fleet hopelessly fighting the inital assault... They can marshal their forces to fight the increasingly more spread out Imperial forces - ambushing small task forces with concentrated 5:1 or 10:1 advantage. While the Star Trek ships are useless in a stand up fight, Warp speed hit and runs with torpedo attacks WILL wreck up any Imperial battle group as they have no chance to BRACE against such tactics.

"Brace"? What the hell? They have shields, and a 10:1 advantage is nothing when the scale of power being used is 10,000:1. They won't wreck anything, they will run out of torpedos before they destroy a battleship. And they don't need to "brace" their shields, shields are always active.

Here are some other incredibly hillarious LOLZ techniques:

Drop out of warp and transport live torpedoes (or tri-cobalt devices if desired) directly to the engine rooms of capital ships... warp out.

Assumes they can go through Void Shields, target the correct areas of the ship, get close enough to fire, not get killed in the meantime, be in the place where they would need to intercept the fleet. Since they can't transport through their own shields, going through another universe's seems unlikely.

Drop out of warp with 5-6 ships, tractor beam one capital ship and drag it into a second one, warp out.

Except 40k capital ships are hundreds of times their size, and no where near each other.

Drag a pile of ASTEROIDS at warp speed, drop out of warp, cut tractors, jump to warp. Giving the gift of an inertia charged asteroid attack on a packed battlegroup in transit is always LULz.

"Packed battlegroup"? Do you know anything about space?

Here's another hillarious one... drop an overloading warp core in the middle of their battlegroup... warp out.

As above.

Hit and run... but each one will cause damage that the pitiful Imperium of Man's tech priests soothing laments and litanies will be hard pressed to repair!

Except that Void Shields can replenish faster than Star Trek ships can damage them.

The longer the Imperial fleet can be delayed, the quicker it will be pacified, either from Captains turning traitor due to desperation, or entire navy crews staging mutinies due to extreme faitigue or hunger.

Nothing the Federation can do can delay them, nothing they can do can cause desperation, Federation captains and crews will be the ones turning traitor once they realize that civilization as they know it requires submitting to the Imperium.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sniperjolly wrote:Of course I will concede two points, but only two.

1. Q is omnipotent. Chaos/ Emps is not (HERESY!!!)

Well, omnipotent where? Chaos rules the Warp; or, more to the point, it is the Warp. They can turn you into salami if you're in their domain, but they're limited in influence when it comes to the real world. The Q continuum could definitely do more in the real world than Chaos could hope to (or the C'Tan could).

2. Plot armor. James Tiberius Motha****ing Kirk will pull something crazy out of nowhere and somehow shut the warp rift (or whatever) connecting the two, and the Imperials will either settle down and assimilate or form their own little enclave/empire.

But can he defeat the ULTRAMARIENS HURR?!?!?

(Actually, his middle name is Tiberius...)

Frazzled wrote:Earthforce at time of B5 season 3 vs. Cylon battle fleet at time of Colony attack.

yea baby, Base stars popping nukes left and right vs. earth destroyers uncapping their primaries. All the while star furies furball with Cylon raiders. Me likey.

Those are some sweet finds there Fraz . Have you seen the video where Picard faces off with the Emperor? Pretty funny stuff XD.

A little perspective on how ridiculous the "packed battlegroup" comment is: You know how Texas is a pretty big place? It's about 1200 kilometers across. Ships in Battlefleet Gothic generally only ever get that close to each other if they are trying to ram. Base to base contact is over 2000 km distance. Some of the tactics in this thread would require ships to get so close that defense turrets could engage them.

In the debate of Trek Vs 40k, I have only two words left to put forward.

TANTALIS FIELD

Goodbye Emperor, so much for the Imperium's Warp Travel.

Now what B!tches!?

Deadshane1 wrote:In the debate of Trek Vs 40k, I have only two words left to put forward.

TANTALIS FIELD

Goodbye Emperor, so much for the Imperium's Warp Travel.

Now what B!tches!?

Nuke it from Orbit?

Was the Tantalus device the one which only showed up in a single episode that took place in an alternate universe?

Raxmei wrote:Was the Tantalus device the one which only showed up in a single episode that took place in an alternate universe?

Yep, but it was in one universe...good chance there is another one in the other...and its Canon.

Deadshane1 wrote:Yep, but it was in one universe...good chance there is another one in the other...

Why?

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:Yep, but it was in one universe...good chance there is another one in the other...

Why?

Well, it is refered to as a "Mirror" or "Parallel" universe. So why do you think?

this basically sums up the terminator and star trek teleportation question nicely

Deadshane1 wrote:

Orkeosaurus wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:Yep, but it was in one universe...good chance there is another one in the other...

Why?

Well, it is refered to as a "Mirror" or "Parallel" universe. So why do you think?

The Galactic Federation didn't exist in that universe, so I don't know that the Tantalus field would exist in the regular one. Or that it doesn't instantly heal people in the regular universe (cuz everythings sdrawkcab!).

If it did exist, why would the Galactic Federation have it?

what about section 31??? the black ops of star fleet remember them, the ones that basicly destroyed the founders with gentic bio weapon.... So Star Fleet will go the distance.With out the knowlegle of the right hand ( which is the front man of the federation) were the left hand poisons and main control of the universe from the shadows.... well so we cant use books as canon .... so were do you get ur information about 40k?? there no tv shows or movies??

StarGate wrote:what about section 31??? the black ops of star fleet remember them, the ones that basicly destroyed the founders with gentic bio weapon.... So Star Fleet will go the distance.With out the knowlegle of the right hand ( which is the front man of the federation) were the left hand poisons and main control of the universe from the shadows.... well so we cant use books as canon .... so were do you get ur information about 40k?? there no tv shows or movies??

Errrm.. You do realise that:
Star Trek Canon = The Shows
40k Canon = The Books.

You don't use the Star Trek Books as Canon any more than you use the Dawn of War games as canon.