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Void__Dragon wrote:Chaos Horus is far more powerful than any servant of Chaos in history.

Debatable. In terms of sheer power there's a chance that Doombreed or a favoured champion of Khorne could best him. As for power over other Chaos followers, Abaddon has held the legions together through thirteen black crusades, but when Horus' attack on Terra failed, they splintered. Perhaps if Horus had escaped it would have been different, but I get the feeling that he would have been hated for the loss and lost his power for it.

Durza wrote:Debatable. In terms of sheer power there's a chance that Doombreed or a favoured champion of Khorne could best him. As for power over other Chaos followers, Abaddon has held the legions together through thirteen black crusades, but when Horus' attack on Terra failed, they splintered. Perhaps if Horus had escaped it would have been different, but I get the feeling that he would have been hated for the loss and lost his power for it.

It isn't debatable at all.

Horus wasn't just some particularly powerful Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided.

He had the massed power of all four Chaos Gods inside him, all four were possessing him, lending him the totality of their power in the hopes of destroying the Emperor.

There was never any chance of Horus escaping, when the Emperor used his full power against Horus, the Chaos Gods fled Horus's body in fear of their own existence, and Horus's soul was left obliterated.

If Horus did escape in failure though, it is likely the Gods themselves would strip him of their power.

Also, Doombreed is by far the most overrated character in 40k. There is exactly no source which states "Doombreed is the most powerful/greatest servant of Khorne."

But there are plenty of sources stating Angron is.

Guys, you need to read "Visions of Death" which can be found in the "Collected Visions" books. Or at least read the wikis.

The wiki has this statement with it sourced from pg. 362-369 of said book.
"However even after all that he had done, the Emperor could not bring himself to use his full power and risk killing his beloved son. But the Chaos Gods had no such qualms and gleeful at a chance to finally kill the hated Emperor, fed even more power into Horus. "

Its pretty clear that the Emperor could have demolished Horus but couldnt bring himself too. When the intervention occured, the Emperor decided it had to be done. He proceded to litterally rip the four Chaos gods out of Horus (talking about power) and then destroy Horus completely so he could never be used by the Chaos Gods again. The whole point of the intervention is that when the Emperor saw Horus flay this soldier who was loyal to the Emperor, the Emperor realized that Horus had to be stopped, there could be no reasoning with him, he had to be destroyed.

Void__Dragon wrote:

It isn't debatable at all.

Horus wasn't just some particularly powerful Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided.

He had the massed power of all four Chaos Gods inside him, all four were possessing him, lending him the totality of their power in the hopes of destroying the Emperor.

There was never any chance of Horus escaping, when the Emperor used his full power against Horus, the Chaos Gods fled Horus's body in fear of their own existence, and Horus's soul was left obliterated.

If Horus did escape in failure though, it is likely the Gods themselves would strip him of their power.

Also, Doombreed is by far the most overrated character in 40k. There is exactly no source which states "Doombreed is the most powerful/greatest servant of Khorne."

But there are plenty of sources stating Angron is.

Erm. . .source?

Horus was not, as far as I know, possessed by the Chaos Gods. He was granted power by them; just like all the Daemon Primarchs, and indeed all the Daemon Princes, are granted power by their patron deities.

BeRzErKeR wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:

It isn't debatable at all.

Horus wasn't just some particularly powerful Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided.

He had the massed power of all four Chaos Gods inside him, all four were possessing him, lending him the totality of their power in the hopes of destroying the Emperor.

There was never any chance of Horus escaping, when the Emperor used his full power against Horus, the Chaos Gods fled Horus's body in fear of their own existence, and Horus's soul was left obliterated.

If Horus did escape in failure though, it is likely the Gods themselves would strip him of their power.

Also, Doombreed is by far the most overrated character in 40k. There is exactly no source which states "Doombreed is the most powerful/greatest servant of Khorne."

But there are plenty of sources stating Angron is.

Erm. . .source?

Horus was not, as far as I know, possessed by the Chaos Gods. He was granted power by them; just like all the Daemon Primarchs, and indeed all the Daemon Princes, are granted power by their patron deities.

I just sourced it actually. He was actually possessed by the four Gods. After the Gods were ripped out, Horus was back to normal and realized what he had done. He had enough time to shed a single tear before the Emperor destroyed him. The Emperor destroyed him because in Horus weakened state, the Gods could easily re-take control of him.





Oh and another source covering the battle. This one from White Dwarf #161

"In the warp the Emperor hears the Chaos Powers howl as they feed their pawn more power. The Lord of Humanity stands alone against their massed might and knows that he is losing. Somehow he cannot bring his full force to bear on the Warmaster. Horus shows no such restraint."

"The Emperor sees the trap that has been set for him. He has been restraining himself, trying not to hurt one who had been as a son to him. Now he sees that there is no trace of his trusted comrade left. He knows that he must stop this semblance of his former friend and avenge the fallen Terminator. He must strike one deadly blow."

"Driven by all the force of his rage and pain and hatred the Emperor wills Horus's death. He senses the forces of Chaos retreat, disengaging themselves from their pawn. As they do so sanity returns to the Warmaster. The Emperor sees realisation of the atrocities he has committed flicker across Horus' face. Tears glisten there. Horus is free but the Emperor knows he himself is dying and that the Powers of Chaos may once again possess the Warmaster and he will not be there to stop them. He cannot take that risk. Horus must die"

BeRzErKeR wrote:Erm. . .source?

Horus was not, as far as I know, possessed by the Chaos Gods. He was granted power by them; just like all the Daemon Primarchs, and indeed all the Daemon Princes, are granted power by their patron deities.

The Horus Heresy - Collected Visions. From "The Final Battle", near the end.

Galdos provided the quotes.

He was given the full, unlimited backing of all four Chaos Gods. As far as we are aware, that has never happened before in the setting.

Galdos wrote:Guys, you need to read "Visions of Death" which can be found in the "Collected Visions" books. Or at least read the wikis.

The wiki has this statement with it sourced from pg. 362-369 of said book.
"However even after all that he had done, the Emperor could not bring himself to use his full power and risk killing his beloved son. But the Chaos Gods had no such qualms and gleeful at a chance to finally kill the hated Emperor, fed even more power into Horus. "

I'm certainly not seeing the bit about possession. As I said, they granted him power; just like individual Gods grant Daemon Princes power.

'Possession' would be one or more of the Chaos Gods actually, physically manifesting through the medium of Horus's body, in the same way as Greater Daemons do through mortal hosts. That did not happen. The Chaos Gods, themselves, were off in the Warp, pumping energy into Horus; when they saw the Emperor charging up his psychic Kamehameha, they sucked their power back out and cut the connection to avoid losing energy when Horus got blasted.

Powers of Chaos may once again possess the Warmaster and he will not be there to stop them

'Possession' would be one or more of the Chaos Gods actually, physically manifesting through the medium of Horus's body, in the same way as Greater Daemons do through mortal hosts. That did not happen.

Galdos wrote:

Powers of Chaos may once again possess the Warmaster and he will not be there to stop them

That might not literally mean possession like you think it means. As I recall, though Horus repented when he was stripped briefly of the energies of Chaos, his actions in most of the other HH books indicate that he was acting under his own volition for most of it, with his mind becoming warped as time went on.
In this case, the word "possession" might refer more to the warping of his mind than the Chaos Gods physically controlling his actions by using his body as a host.

Okay that just means we are reading the same txt and interpreting it differently. Thats not a problem though.

You are correct that Horus did repent. I assumed its similar to Fulgrim where the Gods were whispering into his mind messing with his thought process. He was still coming up with the plans but they were corrupted. With the Gods gone he was his old self again.