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RatBot wrote:you have to fly into a nerdrage over it
I'm not even mad. U mad. Obviously.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
KamikazeCanuck wrote:Yes, I never felt the pride of Bane beating Batman or the despair of Batman at being beaten. There just wasn't enough hate.
Exactly. Bane is so nonchalant. I know that's supposed to make him more threatening. But I was just left with the impression that Batman was not very good. Not that Bane was awesome.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/08 22:06:39
Manchu wrote:I've thought a bit about this and my honest answer is that by the reveal scene nothing really matters anymore. I mean that seriously. The film has pretty much stopped caring about coherency at that point. It was shaky up to then. They tried to hide the stuff that didn't make sense. But when Talia stabs him, everything is out of the window. And the comic-reading audience is like "well duh but why?" But the film doesn't seem to be made for comic-reading audiences so no one bothers to give her a convincing answer. It's just "I really fething hate you, Bruce." Why is that, you might wonder -- of course, because he killed her father who she really fething hated. Wait that doesn't make any ---
No, no. Just move along. Isn't there a bomb about to go off? And to remind us of that, and ironically of Bane's or Talia's or whoever's ridiculous, nonsensical plan, Talia pushes the button to no effect. And just when you thought the irony couldn't get any thicker, Talia herself reacts to this by saying "feth, that doesn't even matter because it's gonna blow up anyway!" Yeah. Exactly. She might as well have said "this movie doesn't have to make any fething sense because I know you'll go to see it anyway!" And we're just like Bruce, stabbed in the back, going "Why? Why? Why?" So she leaves and we're there with Bane who is now revealed to be ... uh, a throwaway goon that the mistress just left to die ... wait, I thought he this massive threat? No, no. Just move along. Look -- it's Catowman! And she just fething shoots him so we can get back to that bomb thing that also doesn't make sense.
So basically, Talia stands for the movie finally being honest about how nothing that has happened so far making any difference one way or the other.
Not quite the answer I was looking for but yeah, I can go with that
I honestly found a bunch of things in the film to be kind of... Pointless? Kind of like the third Spider-Man movie, having so much going on at once that it all just stops being consistent enough to follow and everything just kind of crashes together in their baffling way?
Batman was not very good. Not that Bane was awesome.
Doesn't help that somehow he's burned all his cartilegde.... Which I gotta tell you, its pretty damn hard to burn ALL of it. And needed those silly robot legs.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/08 22:12:02
I think Nolan "got" Bane. But he really missed the point of Talia.
Talia's deal is that she really does love Bruce. But she also loves her father. And in the end, she's her own woman so she lives between the worlds of her Ra's al Ghul and Batman. She's dangerous (to both) precisely because she represents a third way.
In this movie, she's just flying rodent gak crazy. She's smart enough to make all of this complicated stuff happen just to hurt one guy who she has no real motive to dislike much less hate.
In effect, Nolan plays her as a crazy bitch. She's the deluded girl who keys your car for cheating on you even though you guys never even went out. Coupled with Rachel "the Shining Idol of Goodness" Dawes and Selena "Won't Someone Take Me Away From All This?" Kyle, Talia makes me wonder about Nolan's view of women.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/08/08 22:17:20
@Manchu and the saturday-morning-cartoon-moustache-twirling-villian accent didn't help either. Can't believe that's the accent they went for for Bane.
You spoke ealier about Nolan being topical usually but not this time. I kind of got a Occupy Wallstreet (gone crazy) vibe from Bane' army of bad guys especially during the stock market scene which seemed like an interesting angle but then....Bane's masterstroke is revealed: "I'm gonna blow up Gotham!". That stereotype just flushed any point to anything down the toilet. At least that plan matched his accent...and I'm assuming the twirly moustache under the mask.
LordofHats wrote:Doesn't help that somehow he's burned all his cartilegde.... Which I gotta tell you, its pretty damn hard to burn ALL of it. And needed those silly robot legs.
Hold on cowboy -- needed the brace until he was in Bane's torture prison. Then he magically does not need it.
Manchu wrote:I agree. In the end, the film looks like it should be good. It sounds like it should be good. It feels like it should be good. But it is just really, really bad. I don't mean it is an absolute shambles, like the worst possible thing that could happen to any movie. It's watchable. It's got a lot of entertaining pieces. But the heart of any superhero movie is a moral compass and this movie lacks that. It is, in effect, heartless -- which ends up being a pretty good summary of a lot of what's wrong plot-wise and character-wise and ... well, just morally speaking.
How does this movie lack a moral compass, it has same morals as every other super hero movie a vigilante trying to bring justice to his city/world, even if you go beyond that there's other things too like vengeance, common man does something heroic, etc. There was nothing morally ambiguous about the Dark Knight Rises, there were clearly defined good guys and villains.
Manchu wrote:Hold on cowboy -- needed the brace until he was in Bane's torture prison. Then he magically does not need it.
OMG your right! It makes that whole minor thing even more pointless. Like, filler pointless. Probably explains why I felt the movie was so sloooooooooow.
KamikazeCanuck wrote:@Manchu and the saturday-morning-cartoon-moustache-twirling-villian accent didn't help either. Can't believe that's the accent they went for for Bane.
I still think of Bane as a El Toro Fuerte's evil twin.
Cheesecat wrote:How does this movie lack a moral compass, it has same morals as every other super hero movie a vigilante trying to bring justice to his city/world, even if you go beyond that there's other things too like vengeance, common man does something heroic, etc. There was nothing morally ambiguous about the Dark Knight Rises, there were clearly defined good guys and villains.
I wouldn't say the movie lacked a moral compass, but I'd say this film lost the sort of complicated ambiguity of The Dark Knigt. That film kind of begs the question "how far will you go" where as this movie is kind of just "go far" which is so much less interesting...
Since the ‘Dark Knight Rises‘ prologue previewed for fans in theaters this past Christmas season, there was a lot of controversy surrounding the voice of the film’s villain, Bane. No one could understand what the heck this guy was saying. Director Christopher Nolan reportedly tweaked the audio but what remains is still unmistakeably…weird. So where did Tom Hardy come up with this?
Hardy spoke with Vulture on the ‘Dark Knight Rises’ red carpet last night and revealed that his Bane is based on Bartley Gorman, who he describes as “the king of the gypsies, and he’s a boxer, a bare-knuckle boxer, an Irish traveler, a gypsy…” (He’s a gypsy, in case you missed that.) It’s likely that Hardy found Gorman when he was researching his role in ‘Warrior’ as a MMA fighter and used the voice when he joined the cast of ‘The Dark Knight Rises.’
If, like us, you’re unfamiliar with Gorman, there’s this YouTube clip from the documentary ‘King of the Gypsies’ (he’s a gypsy, you know…) that gives you a look, and listen, to the man in action.
They changed the metallic/breather sound of the voice several times before the release, so I wonder how much was changed between what Nolan wanted it to sound like and the changes made from complaints about not being able to understand him.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
I actually did miss a word or two Bane said because of the whacky effects, but I also think I damaged my hearing at some point in the not so distant past so that probably doesn't help much.
No. I was in an empty theater and at times I couldn't understand what he was saying either. I'm sure I'd probably catch it if I watched it again, but just once and I couldn't catch some of the lines.
LordofHats wrote:No. I was in an empty theater and at times I couldn't understand what he was saying either. I'm sure I'd probably catch it if I watched it again, but just once and I couldn't catch some of the lines.
They should have had subtitles while he was speaking.
Kids these days either fail with understanding accents or need to pull the iPod plugs out of their ears. Geez.
And Manchu's education of Ratbot was most excellent. The only time Bane was portrayed as a pure brute was that gak movie with Uma Thurman.
There's info on Bane on wikipedia and a DC wikia. At least have a passing familiarity with a character before spouting off about how they're portrayed wrong. The only major deviations from Bane are lack of Venom and smaller stature.
I didn't say they portrayed him wrong, I said "I didn't know what they were going to do with him because IIRC he's a big brutal luchadore on super-steroids" and was basing the information on what I could remember about Bane, which amounted to a single scene from TAS that I hadn't seen in a decade in a half, and that based on what Manchu is saying, what I recall from the animated series is not an accurate portrayal, but their portrayals of characters like the Joker and the Penguin, who are much, much more prominent in the series, and therefore more memorable, are definitely accurate.
Next time a semi-obscure character is featured in a comic book film I'll read the entire fething back catalog so I don't dare make any kind of mistake about the characterization ever again.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2012/08/09 01:06:45
I don't know how Bane is obscure. He's kind of a big deal for being the guy who broke the Bat.
It's just kind of iconic. I guess Joker is the #1 Batman villain followed by Ras Al Ghul, but after that Bane is probably more deserving of the third spot than anyone else.
The more I think about this movie the more I it bothers me.
I'm of the opinion that they should have made the movie longer prior to Batman getting his back broken, and ended it a little bit after the Bane/Batman confrontation. Kind of a downer ending to be sure, but no more than The Empire Strikes Back, Fellowship of the Ring etc. We all know this isn't the last Batman movie, so I wish Nolan didn't try to make such an abrupt conclusion to his take on the Batman story. Then the next movie(s) could develop Bane/Talia more, introduce more villians (since they all escaped from Blackgate) and heroes, give the recovery in the pit a more realistic spin etc.
With that said, I thought this movie was awesome, but the weakest of the trilogy.
Bane gets alot of flak for not being as good a villian as Joker, but I thought that he was pretty good up until the end, there's just too much going on in the movie for him to develop like the joker. Some of his quotes were pretty funny.
Stock Exchange Guy: "There's no money here!"
Bane : "Really, then why are you here?"
Corrupt Board Member: "I'm in charge here!"
Bane: (Places hand on dudes shoulder) "Do you feel in charge?"
Amongst a few others.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/09 01:38:46
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
He was in the cartoon fifteen (actually, eighteen) years ago.
He's big and yells "Break You" and wears a luchadore mask.
He is addicted to something called Venom which is presumably some kind of crazy awesome steroids, which is why he's so beastly.
He broke Batman's back in the comic book, and the only reason I know that is because I saw it on IGN or something.
Because of his status as a masked wrestler on drugs, and his prodigious phsyical strength, and his pechant for yelling 'BREAK YOU' I don't think it's a terribly unfair assumption to think he's a character who lacks subtlety. I mean, feth, look at the guy; nothing about him says "subtle criminal mastermind".
That's it.
For people who don't read the comics (IE, me), I'd hazard that the most well-known Batman villains are, in no particular order, the Joker, The Riddler, The Penguin, and Catwoman. I am only vaguely aware of who and what Ra's al-Ghul is and am obviously (well, was obviously) not to up to snuff on Bane's backstory and history.
I'm not even arguing that anyone who's correcting me is fething wrong, I'm a little pissed that people are basically like "NO YOU slow WTF HOW COULD YOU BE SO WRONG LOLOLOLOLOL IDIOT." Instead of saying, "Well, actually Bane is really really smart etc etc."
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/09 01:44:59
You've still read more Batman comics than I have. Also I said semi-obscure. I guarantee a lot more people know who the Riddler and The Penguin are than Ra's al Ghul or Bane. I had forgotten that Bane existed until last January when I played DCUO and basically saw "Big strong guy on Venom using a building's support column like a club who broke Batman's back."
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/09 01:52:11
Reading a one off Alan Moore GN about the Joker has absolutely nothing to do with Bane and individuals making assumptions about the character based on his appearance.
Chill out. RatBot is a good example of a casual fan and non-comic reader, and should be a good source of info about their perspective. No need to browbeat the guy.
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Look, I don't even know what to fething say anymore.
I was wrong about Bane. I'm sorry that I have never bothered to research a character I haven't even thought about since 1994 (which is when that episode of TAS came out, thanks Google) or maybe 1996 when I might've seen him in a rerun on Cartoon Network, other than in passing when I saw the image of him breaking Batman's back (which, without context, does little to diminish the perceived brutish nature of the character) and made an incorrect assumption based on that hazy recollection.
And I still maintain that Bane and Ra's al-Ghul are far more obscure than:
The Joker
The Riddler
The Penguin
Catwoman
Mister Freeze
Poison Ivy
Two Face
I even think of goddamn Clayface, Killer Croc, The Mad Hatter, and that guy with the ventriloquist's dummy with the machine gun who's name I can't even remember and may not have ever been in a comic because they might've made him up for TAS before I think of Bane or Ra's al Ghul.
I wasn't even saying "Oh, Bane is definitely a big dumb brute", I said "If I recall correctly, Bane is a big dumb brute", which is pretty much another way of saying "I may be mistaken, but wasn't Bane originally a big dumb brute?" and the answer is no. No he is not.
And it turns out, I fething loved Bane in the movie! I thought he was a badass character because I like that kind of character! It's great to know that he is actually like that in the comic book. It suddenly vaults him higher on my list of cool comic book characters.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/09 02:17:35
kronk wrote:In the comic books, I always felt that Metropolis mirrored New York and Gotham mirrored Chicago, with a hodge-podge of other cities mixed in to fit the canvas of the current storyline. But I could be wrong.
Gotham is a real-world nickname for New York. Yeah, they kind of mix the cities a bit in DC, though, rather than making them direct translations of specific real world cities.
Da Boss wrote:The cheesy love scene with Wayne and Talia. WTF. "Oh, we got rained on, and we're in a film. I guess we gotta shag now. And now that we've shagged, you are obsessively in love with me." I dunno, maybe Talia is a weasel in the sack or something.
I initially got the sense from the movie that they had at least SOME back history, though the other characters making a point of telling him that she was attractive kind of contradicts that. Otherwise my impression was that they had some previous history working together, and might have had some attraction/flirtation at that time, which he wasn't ready to act on until the events of the movie.
Otherwise I agree with a lot of your criticisms. I can't go as far as Manchu in thinking it was bad, though. There was too much in it that I really enjoyed. But yeah, both it and the first one suffered from somewhat incoherent and nonsensical plots.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/09 02:21:14
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Its an action movie based on entertaining graphical books. For what the movie is, the actors did a fine job. Except Christian Bale....throughout the trilogy, his character hasn't really had much in the way of uniqueness except in changing from frustrated child into the predator. He's like "Wassup, I'm Batman" Again, for what it is; it was a fine movie with fine actors. It provided me with action, entertainment, and a thought here or there on human nature. But for each and everyone of you looking for deeper character or bigger meaning than what this movie was intended to give you, you're looking at the wrong movie.
I will forever remain humble because I know I could have less.
I will always be grateful because I remember I've had less.
