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Maybe they were costed with the buffs in mind. I find it hard not to include Eldrad, Yvraine and a Warlock in most lists.

I've heard that a Wraithknight does not compare favorably with the Imperial Knight, but with fortune, Guide and WotP it gets ridiculous.

I'm intending to run my serpents with tri-shurican, vectored engines and spirit stones. I'll reserve heavy weapons for units that might actually stand still like wraithlords in a counterassault role. This seems to amplify the role - tanky and mobile transport - while keeping a good amount of firepower. Now try to convince me to keep my brightlance turrets

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Maybe they were costed with the buffs in mind. I find it hard not to include Eldrad, Yvraine and a Warlock in most lists.

I've heard that a Wraithknight does not compare favorably with the Imperial Knight, but with fortune, Guide and WotP it gets ridiculous.

This is exactly right. I feel more and more that the eldar tax is amazing psychic tax.
It is just a pity that it kind of forces you to include at least 2 of the above 3 though in your army.

Doesn't bother me as I have been an eldrad fanboy since day 1 and can probably count the lists I've written on 1 hand that don't include him.

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
I'm intending to run my serpents with tri-shurican, vectored engines and spirit stones.

I just want to make sure I understand correctly about Vectored Engines. Since the WS does not have Battle Focus, it gets the -1BS Penalty if it advances and fires its shuricannons. Now it benefits from a -1 to hit vs incoming fire but if you are facing a BS3+ opponent, that seems like 10 points for an advantage that is cancelled out by the penalty.

I suppose it is worth it against IG or Orks where a -1BS reduces their hits by a bigger percentage than yours but overall I am not entirely convinced.

Marsyas wrote:
I'm aware of the point cost. I like to field 3 hornets at 150 points each. They've been very solid for me so far. I've tested them in-game against a number of different targets (generally with farseer support), and they generally erase whatever they shoot at in a single salvo. Far as I can tell, the only thing they actually struggle to kill is wave serpents. ... even with both Guide and Doom, the best I've been able to do to a Wave Serpent with a hornet squadron was 8 damage in one salvo. Stupid Serpent Shield.

Very cool man. I only own 2 hornets myself but I plan on running them in some upcoming games to see what they can handle. The more I theoryhammer them, the more i like them. They are more durible than WW and vypers, not nearly as tanky as a falcon or serpant, albeit they dont have any damage falloff. They are full strength until they are gone. They are this like middle ground between a light skimmer and a heavy tank. It is still weird to me that the hornet pulse has such large range for such a small light tank. *shrug* still one of my favorite models.

Did you run them with any upgrades like crystals? vector engines?

Am I crazy to think if you added vector engines and advanced they have -2 to hit? I was thinking about this last night, and if you ran them with Shurikan cannons, and vector engines, they sit at 119 points and are legitimately hard as nails with a -2 to hit.

 Karhedron wrote:

Cpt. Icanus wrote:
I'm intending to run my serpents with tri-shurican, vectored engines and spirit stones.

I just want to make sure I understand correctly about Vectored Engines. Since the WS does not have Battle Focus, it gets the -1BS Penalty if it advances and fires its shuricannons. Now it benefits from a -1 to hit vs incoming fire but if you are facing a BS3+ opponent, that seems like 10 points for an advantage that is cancelled out by the penalty.

I suppose it is worth it against IG or Orks where a -1BS reduces their hits by a bigger percentage than yours but overall I am not entirely convinced.

Nothing has battle focus because everything has SfD lol. If you are mainly using the Serpents to as transports the -1 to enemies is worth it, if you want them as gun boats you're better not advancing.

 Kakutodani wrote:
Hello all,

I am looking to start Warhammer 40k with Eldar.

As such, I am looking to put together an Eldar Armylist of about 500pts to start before purchasing any minis.

I've combed through this thread, and come to the conclusion of the following;

1) The current Eldar Start Collecting! set is not very good in 8th Edition.
2) I need Wave Serpents.

As such; I've put together the following rough list, but I am still missing a few points and I would appreciate any feedback you can give me as to how to fill up the remaining points.

113 - Farseer w/ Wtichblade
80 - 10x Guardians
80 - 10x Guardians
143 - Wave Serpent w/ Triple Shuriken Cannon

This however only puts me at about 416 pts, and I would appreciate any suggestions as to how to fill the last 84 points.

Thank you very much.

Wave Serpents are definitely nice, but it's definitely not true that you need them. The Skyrunner Farseer is worth the points. His mobility is important for sniping with Smite. Unfortunately, mounting him and adding a Warlock is 85 points. Proxy the Serpent as twin Cannon and twin Catapults, saves you 2 points.

So Im running heavy on dark reapers and I wanted to get some clarification on how there Tempest Launcher worked.

Tempest Launcher
"This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearer"

Character
"A character can only be chosen as a target if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting"

Does this mean they can fire on characters if they are hidden behind a wall? Or are they saying the closest visible unit from players perspective. I thought it was interesting cause that would make reapers even more versatile.

 deathdancer wrote:
So Im running heavy on dark reapers and I wanted to get some clarification on how there Tempest Launcher worked.

Tempest Launcher
"This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearer"

Character
"A character can only be chosen as a target if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting"

Does this mean they can fire on characters if they are hidden behind a wall? Or are they saying the closest visible unit from players perspective. I thought it was interesting cause that would make reapers even more versatile.

I would say that the TL rule in effect just makes everyone visible, regardless of intervening terrain. So unless the character was physically the closest, no.

 deathdancer wrote:
So Im running heavy on dark reapers and I wanted to get some clarification on how there Tempest Launcher worked.

Tempest Launcher
"This weapon can target units that are not visible to the bearer"

Character
"A character can only be chosen as a target if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting"

Does this mean they can fire on characters if they are hidden behind a wall? Or are they saying the closest visible unit from players perspective. I thought it was interesting cause that would make reapers even more versatile.

#1 you can fire at any units out of line of sight neat!
#2 a character has to be the closest model that can be targeted that is not out of line of sight. So lets use another weapon.. shurican variety.. if a character is behind a unit of marines.. you cant shoot him.. if he is behind those marines.. but because of terrain you can't see the marines, and he is the next closest .. you CAN shoot him.
---
Now.. dark reapers... Technically the restriction on shooting the character is resolved as you may target him, regardless of their guns firing out of line of sight... but i can see some people arguing that because they can shoot out of line of sight.. the marines behind cover are valid targets and thus would prevent the character from getting shot. Blarg i would allow it based on how the character rule is worded.

 Grizzyzz wrote:
if he is behind those marines.. but because of terrain you can't see the marines, and he is the next closest .. you CAN shoot him.

That's not correct due to FAQ. If there is a closer unit physically to a character, even if you can't see it, you still can't target character.

Reapers absolutely can target a character behind a wall, but there must not be any other enemy units closer to reapers at that moment.

 Kakutodani wrote:
I've combed through this thread, and come to the conclusion of the following;

1) The current Eldar Start Collecting! set is not very good in 8th Edition.
2) I need Wave Serpents.

I'd recommend first coming up with a concept of an army. Choose your favorite Craftworld and possibly playing style. You don't want to end up with units that might be effective, but boring to play.

 Shadenuat wrote:

 Grizzyzz wrote:
if he is behind those marines.. but because of terrain you can't see the marines, and he is the next closest .. you CAN shoot him.

That's not correct due to FAQ. If there is a closer unit physically to a character, even if you can't see it, you still can't target character.

Reapers absolutely can target a character behind a wall, but there must not be any other enemy units closer to reapers at that moment.

 Kakutodani wrote:
I've combed through this thread, and come to the conclusion of the following;

1) The current Eldar Start Collecting! set is not very good in 8th Edition.
2) I need Wave Serpents.

I'd recommend first coming up with a concept of an army. Choose your favorite Craftworld and possibly playing style. You don't want to end up with units that might be effective, but boring to play.

I do not recall reading that in the FAQ? where does that come up?

*EDIT* The one thing i recall was dealing with characters in regards to closer units being in CC. Which is a totally different situation then what we were discussing. Albeit would be the same situation if that unit in cc was "not" visible, then you would still be able to target the enemy character.

Yeah, I don't see where the FAQ says that you can't target a character who is the closest visible unit if there is a closer non-visible unit.

The Tempest Launcher does not over-ride the Character rule. You still can't shoot an enemy Character unless they are the closest visible enemy unit. It is clearly intended to over-ride the general prohibition against targeting units that are not visible; it is not permission to target non-visible units regardless of other prohibitions against targeting them. For example, you can't shoot at a non-visible unit which is outside of the weapon's range.

Oops, actually I think I might be in a wrong there. FAQ spoke about closest visible units.

*EDIT* The one thing i recall was dealing with characters in regards to closer units being in CC. Which is a totally different situation then what we were discussing. Albeit would be the same situation if that unit in cc was "not" visible, then you would still be able to target the enemy character.

Yep. I'd still argue Reapers just ignore LOS and not other restrictions like shooting at Characters.

How are people finding the Autarch as a Force Multiplier due to its aura?

At 78pts, you can get
Autarch w/ Fusion Pistol, Power Weapon, Banshee Mask.

This provides rerolls of 1s to hit, which on mostly 3+ to hit units across the army, is pretty strong.

 Kouzuki wrote:
How are people finding the Autarch as a Force Multiplier due to its aura?

At 78pts, you can get
Autarch w/ Fusion Pistol, Power Weapon, Banshee Mask.

This provides rerolls of 1s to hit, which on mostly 3+ to hit units across the army, is pretty strong.

I've not tried it, but it would work welll with a unit of 20 guardians with two Shuricannons for grabbing/holding an objective. Something slashy for assault, something melty for hard targets and armour, and a whole lotta shurikens for everything.

Any Feedback on Shadow Spectres thus far?

At 23 pts a model (27 for Exarch,) these guys seem really strong.

With Guide, the Coherent fire can relatively reliably get up to 3 hits per model.
The DIffiused shot's auto-hit is great for overwatch.

The only thing is I am not sure i'd ever run the Prism Blaster of Haywire Launcher on the Exarch over the standard Prism Rifle.

 Kouzuki wrote:
Any Feedback on Shadow Spectres thus far?

At 23 pts a model (27 for Exarch,) these guys seem really strong.

With Guide, the Coherent fire can relatively reliably get up to 3 hits per model.
The DIffiused shot's auto-hit is great for overwatch.

The only thing is I am not sure i'd ever run the Prism Blaster of Haywire Launcher on the Exarch over the standard Prism Rifle.

I plan on running some in my next set of games. Love the models, so hopefully they dont get blasted off the table turn 1 :p

 Grizzyzz wrote:

Did you run them with any upgrades like crystals? vector engines?

I run them with Crystal Targeting Matrices. They would indeed be -2 to hit with vectored engines, but that would mean you couldn't shoot with them unless you were running shuriken cannons.

 Shadenuat wrote:

That's not correct due to FAQ. If there is a closer unit physically to a character, even if you can't see it, you still can't target character.

That does not occur in the FAQ. You only can't shoot characters when there are closer visible targets, even if those targets aren't legal.

Q: If a model cannot shoot at the closest visible enemy
unit for some reason (e.g. it is within 1" of one of
your units) but the next closest visible enemy unit is a
Character, can that model then target the character?
A: No.

The only way to ever target a character with a shooting attack is if it's the closest visible target.

 Kouzuki wrote:
Any Feedback on Shadow Spectres thus far?

At 23 pts a model (27 for Exarch,) these guys seem really strong.

With Guide, the Coherent fire can relatively reliably get up to 3 hits per model.
The DIffiused shot's auto-hit is great for overwatch.

The only thing is I am not sure i'd ever run the Prism Blaster of Haywire Launcher on the Exarch over the standard Prism Rifle.

They seem fragile for a gun that is so short ranged...

 Lurker wrote:

 Kouzuki wrote:
Any Feedback on Shadow Spectres thus far?

They seem fragile for a gun that is so short ranged...

Welcome to Craftworld Eldar. Here's a gun that doesn't shoot as far as you can throw it.

For an actual opinion. Specters are probably the third best aspect warrior after Fire Dragons and Dark Reapers. And they are light years ahead of whatever is 4th best.

They actually get enough shots with a gun that can actually kill things. This is something Eldar lack as a whole.

They aren't as fragile as a lot of Eldar infantry.

Basically, they compare directly to Spiders. Specters have a much better gun that usually shoots further, the same defensive ability but one that doesn't kill them, a monstrously better ability to get charged (which all Eldar units will, see comment about throwing your gun).

They are only worse than Spiders in 2" of movement, and also morale (lol Eldar morale...).

1 point more is an outrageous bargain. Compared to other Eldar infantry who aren't Guardians, they are probably the most cost effective unit.

Forgive me if someone already mentioned it, but I have a couple hornets, and the fire power sounds decent, but what are their defensive stats like? Tougher than a warwalker; more wounds?

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:

That's not correct due to FAQ. If there is a closer unit physically to a character, even if you can't see it, you still can't target character.

That does not occur in the FAQ. You only can't shoot characters when there are closer visible targets, even if those targets aren't legal.

Q: If a model cannot shoot at the closest visible enemy
unit for some reason (e.g. it is within 1" of one of
your units) but the next closest visible enemy unit is a
Character, can that model then target the character?
A: No.

The only way to ever target a character with a shooting attack is if it's the closest visible target.

What FAQ? As far as I know GW hasn't published one yet. Can you provide a link?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/06/17/new-edition-now-available-read-the-rules-get-the-t-shirtgw-homepage-post-1/

Scroll down to the bottom - Designer's Commentary.

Have any of you guys ran nightspinners in your games?

I was looking though the index again last night, and actually stopped to read some units I 'ignored' over the past few years. They seem decent enough on paper, but ~7 shots on the average, only leads to 3-5 hits a turn.. so on and so forth..

 Grizzyzz wrote:
Have any of you guys ran nightspinners in your games?

I was looking though the index again last night, and actually stopped to read some units I 'ignored' over the past few years. They seem decent enough on paper, but ~7 shots on the average, only leads to 3-5 hits a turn.. so on and so forth..

They're same as most other re-designed blast weapons - overpriced and unreliable.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Lurker wrote:

 Kouzuki wrote:
Any Feedback on Shadow Spectres thus far?

They seem fragile for a gun that is so short ranged...

Welcome to Craftworld Eldar. Here's a gun that doesn't shoot as far as you can throw it.

For an actual opinion. Specters are probably the third best aspect warrior after Fire Dragons and Dark Reapers. And they are light years ahead of whatever is 4th best.

They actually get enough shots with a gun that can actually kill things. This is something Eldar lack as a whole.

They aren't as fragile as a lot of Eldar infantry.

Basically, they compare directly to Spiders. Specters have a much better gun that usually shoots further, the same defensive ability but one that doesn't kill them, a monstrously better ability to get charged (which all Eldar units will, see comment about throwing your gun).

They are only worse than Spiders in 2" of movement, and also morale (lol Eldar morale...).

1 point more is an outrageous bargain. Compared to other Eldar infantry who aren't Guardians, they are probably the most cost effective unit.

Actually for the point cost I think they are better than dark reapers and compare equally to fire dragons in a different role.

Fire dragons can go in a WS which is a big advantage to their sure ability, but spectres also move 12 so they can move enough to stay out of line of sight if you play with enough terrain a short it should be played. Spectres also have a -1 to hit, and if you use them together with a hemlock wraithfighter, which is amazing by itself, they will have a -2 which is very good.

Also fire dragons I have come to notice that have a hard time to be within those 6" for the extra damage, and now with so many more wounds on tanks and wounding on 3, a unit of 5 will only put 2,2 wounds on a tank, so 7 damage on average. Which is not bad, but not great as that won't kill one tank in one turn compared to how it used to be.

10 specters will hit on average 14 S6 hits at -3, this is 4 wounds on a tank which is less than fire dragons (10 would do like 15 wounds) but they will chew through infantry.

If we add in a farseer, the damage of the spectres go up a lot, getting 24 hits. 8 wounds at a tank it isn't not bad, but that will destroy any infantry unit, or even 2 with split fire.

kaintxu wrote:
Fire dragons can go in a WS which is a big advantage to their sure ability, but spectres also move 12

Spectres, actually, can also ride in WS. (until/if FW fixes it anyway)

kaintxu wrote:

Also fire dragons I have come to notice that have a hard time to be within those 6" for the extra damage, and now with so many more wounds on tanks and wounding on 3, a unit of 5 will only put 2,2 wounds on a tank, so 7 damage on average. Which is not bad, but not great as that won't kill one tank in one turn compared to how it used to be.

The Exarch can reroll 1s to hit and the whole squad can reroll 1s to wound vs Vehicles or Monsters. So even without support, they stand a better than even chance chance of destroying a Dread or equivalent. Get them within the magic 6" and they good chance of 1-shotting a Predator-equivalent.

Having said that, I typically run my squad at 6-strong for insurance.