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The Biel-Tan one is odd. +1 Leadership is almost always going to be worse than the Iyanden trait, but at the same time giving re-roll 1s to-hit to all Shuriken weapons for free when the whole army hits on 3+ normally is not terrible. Grav Tanks all have at least one Shuriken weapon, a lot of Eldar infantry either have rifles or pistols, it's fantastic for Windriders and Vypers, etc. It's not a totally insignificant buff.

The Alaitoc one looks like the all-star to the surprise of absolutely nobody that has played against Raven Guard and Alpha Legion...you'd think GW would have compensated the other Craftworlds a bit more. However, the Alaitoc one is actually even nastier because it's not just infantry and dreadnoughts....it's vehicles and flyers too unless the rule - like the Ulthwe one - says it doesn't affect units that already have a similar ability (i.e. flyers); that's a very distinct possibility! Otherwise, a flat -2 to-hit Alaitoc flyers is absurd and it makes things like Wraithknights and the like just a tad more worthwhile.

Come to think of it, I actually hope Alaitoc doesn't get that Infiltrate stratagem. Could you imagine doing that with Wraithguard/blades, assuming they limit the stratagem to infantry? Yuck. Fire Dragons even?

More ways for armies to gain CP back. Salty Chaos players have none m, and the Death Guard have the literal tax unit Tallyman.

Is it confirmed that there's a Webway Assault stratagem?

"Black Guardians" might end up being a decent alpha-strike unit if you mix Doom and the Discipline stratagem on them, not having to pay extra points probably outweighs the potential command point expenditure.

The article seems to imply Guardians are still 8 points, meaning they're still trash for anything other than filling out Wave Serpents and Troop slots. If Dire Avengers didn't drop to at least 12-13 points it looks like Eldar players will continue to have a dire time with Troops choices...

 Cream Tea wrote:
Wraithlords should be weak to anti-wraithlord weapons like lascannons though.

I think it's strange that it has a degrading statline when Dreadnoughts don't. That irks me.

It's to make up for nearly 20 years of the reverse being true.

Caederes wrote:
The Biel-Tan one is odd. +1 Leadership is almost always going to be worse than the Iyanden trait, but at the same time giving re-roll 1s to-hit to all Shuriken weapons for free when the whole army hits on 3+ normally is not terrible. Grav Tanks all have at least one Shuriken weapon, a lot of Eldar infantry either have rifles or pistols, it's fantastic for Windriders and Vypers, etc. It's not a totally insignificant buff.

The Alaitoc one looks like the all-star to the surprise of absolutely nobody that has played against Raven Guard and Alpha Legion...you'd think GW would have compensated the other Craftworlds a bit more. However, the Alaitoc one is actually even nastier because it's not just infantry and dreadnoughts....it's vehicles and flyers too unless the rule - like the Ulthwe one - says it doesn't affect units that already have a similar ability (i.e. flyers); that's a very distinct possibility! Otherwise, a flat -2 to-hit Alaitoc flyers is absurd and it makes things like Wraithknights and the like just a tad more worthwhile.

The big problem with re-rolling 1s to hit for Biel-tan is that that's what Autarchs do anyway. And only shuriken weapons is bizarre -- that's mostly good for things other than Aspect Warriors.

If these are the Attributes then there's basically no reason to take anything other than Ulthwe or Alatoic. I guess if you really want to run swarms of Guardians you can do Iyanden.

Ulthwe trait is underwhelming but it's second best IMO to aliatoc. Clear that eldar aren't even going to be close to competitive.

Dionysodorus wrote:

Caederes wrote:
The Biel-Tan one is odd. +1 Leadership is almost always going to be worse than the Iyanden trait, but at the same time giving re-roll 1s to-hit to all Shuriken weapons for free when the whole army hits on 3+ normally is not terrible. Grav Tanks all have at least one Shuriken weapon, a lot of Eldar infantry either have rifles or pistols, it's fantastic for Windriders and Vypers, etc. It's not a totally insignificant buff.

The Alaitoc one looks like the all-star to the surprise of absolutely nobody that has played against Raven Guard and Alpha Legion...you'd think GW would have compensated the other Craftworlds a bit more. However, the Alaitoc one is actually even nastier because it's not just infantry and dreadnoughts....it's vehicles and flyers too unless the rule - like the Ulthwe one - says it doesn't affect units that already have a similar ability (i.e. flyers); that's a very distinct possibility! Otherwise, a flat -2 to-hit Alaitoc flyers is absurd and it makes things like Wraithknights and the like just a tad more worthwhile.

The big problem with re-rolling 1s to hit for Biel-tan is that that's what Autarchs do anyway. And only shuriken weapons is bizarre -- that's mostly good for things other than Aspect Warriors.

If these are the Attributes then there's basically no reason to take anything other than Ulthwe or Alatoic. I guess if you really want to run swarms of Guardians you can do Iyanden.

That's the point though, it means you're getting maximum efficiency from your Guardians/Windriders/tanks/etc without needing an Autarch to baby-sit them, meaning if you have one he can always hang around your Aspect Warriors and Wraiths or whatever. It saves you points and tactical considerations in case you didn't want to run one anyway. The Ulthwe trait is similar in the sense that it saves you having to buy Spirit Stones on your vehicles.

Obviously it is weird that it doesn't affect most Aspect Warriors, but Dire Avengers get a much needed boost at least. I'm not saying it's good, just saying it's not all bad.

The Iyanden one is good if you're taking bigger assault units, but seeing as Eldar have good Leadership, if you need to use the Iyanden trait to keep your unit from running away then chances are the unit has already been gutted anyway. It's mostly just to stop bad morale rolls messing up your day, particularly with Wraiths.

Dionysodorus wrote:

Caederes wrote:
The Biel-Tan one is odd. +1 Leadership is almost always going to be worse than the Iyanden trait, but at the same time giving re-roll 1s to-hit to all Shuriken weapons for free when the whole army hits on 3+ normally is not terrible. Grav Tanks all have at least one Shuriken weapon, a lot of Eldar infantry either have rifles or pistols, it's fantastic for Windriders and Vypers, etc. It's not a totally insignificant buff.

The big problem with re-rolling 1s to hit for Biel-tan is that that's what Autarchs do anyway. And only shuriken weapons is bizarre -- that's mostly good for things other than Aspect Warriors.

If these are the Attributes then there's basically no reason to take anything other than Ulthwe or Alatoic. I guess if you really want to run swarms of Guardians you can do Iyanden.

Agreed, Biel-Tan armies are generally heavy on Aspect Warriors, the alleged trait does nothing for 6 out of the 10 different Aspects and if you were running an Autarch /Avatar (i run both) it's even more pointless because the bonuses it provides are already surpassed by these characters. Nobody in their right mind would be going for it over the alleged Alaitoc trait or Ynarri.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Ulthwe trait is underwhelming but it's second best IMO to aliatoc. Clear that eldar aren't even going to be close to competitive.

The fact that Guardians apparently haven't changed in points adds credence to your claim.

However, the significant points drops for Spiritseers and apparently Eldrad could herald more changes in the codex. Traits are secondary to good points costs and profiles, no trait is going to save Guardians from being terrible if they're still a meltabomb and a half points a model with T3, 5+ save and a 12" gun. Conversely, Dire Avengers will actually be useful if they drop down to 12 or 13 points per model. We'll see.

Remember, these teasers rarely list all of the changes - meaning you could see plenty of points drops or changes (and we've seen tons of "Power Level" adjustments in almost every codex - decreasing the cost of many things, some by as much as 35%). If you take the Eldar index right now and reduce the cost on stuff...even then it's almost worthwhile. It's just really damn expensive for Tough 3 stuff that gets shot off the board easily.

I sure hope the leak guesses are wrong (but they look too accurate). Biel-Tan will be absolute garbage with that. One thing that bugs me is that there's been zero hint of making the proper units troops for the proper Craftworlds (something I think would have been mentioned in the teases). Really disappointing fluff-wise there.

I can't complain since everything thus far is at least better than the Index - that's just not saying a ton.

Biel-Tan gets ripped apart and is effectively dead in the water and the result is a more stoic populace and some better gun scopes? That would be disappointing.

I want to hear how my Aspect Warriors are changing or what strategms might help them.

But GW has said feck all so far about any of them.
And non of those Craftword Attributes help them too much either.

 Elbows wrote:
Remember, these teasers rarely list all of the changes - meaning you could see plenty of points drops or changes (and we've seen tons of "Power Level" adjustments in almost every codex - decreasing the cost of many things, some by as much as 35%). If you take the Eldar index right now and reduce the cost on stuff...even then it's almost worthwhile. It's just really damn expensive for Tough 3 stuff that gets shot off the board easily.

I sure hope the leak guesses are wrong (but they look too accurate). Biel-Tan will be absolute garbage with that. One thing that bugs me is that there's been zero hint of making the proper units troops for the proper Craftworlds (something I think would have been mentioned in the teases). Really disappointing fluff-wise there.

I can't complain since everything thus far is at least better than the Index - that's just not saying a ton.

Oh, sure, it's just pretty disappointing that there appear to be only 2 reasonable Craftworld Attributes to choose from, and both of them are fairly straightforward durability improvements. Part of what's fun about these is trying out different styles of army, building around the different kinds of advantages you can get. Like, when you look through the new Guard codex you really want to try to put together a Catachan artillery/Russ army or a Cadian infantry gunline or a Vostroyan/Armageddon mechanized force or maybe some Valhallan or Vostroyan superheavies. Here you choose between making your things a lot more durable outside of 12" or a little more durable all the time. It's not really a power-level thing; the Raven Guard tactic is one of the best anyone has. It's about lacking interesting choices.

Stratagems could still be good, although the Ulthwe one isn't anything spectacular. A generic deep strike stratagem would give us some really interesting options. If Alatoic just gets Raven Guard infiltration that'll be more finicky since it's so first turn dependent and assault-oriented.

But of course you're right that the big thing is points and unit-level rules as far as overall competitiveness is concerned.

I currently have 2 Eldar forces...Iyanden and Ulthwe. The latter I just added with the Fracture book to get back the webway assault, so I hope it comes back.
As for the Iyanden trait, it's not terrible (especially for the non degrading vehicles/wraith constructs). but the leadership change only really affects guardians which will entice you to take a single large unit. It's really odd that you would add Guardians to act as a screen to protect your wraith constructs when in reality, the constructs should be protecting the precious lives of the few remaining Eldar on Iyanden, lol. Strange old game.

It's the other aspects that I think will help Iyanden, the improved toughness, cheaper spiritseers, strategems, etc. I typically run a 5 man axe/shield sqd on foot with farseer casting Fortune on them so didn't always use transports.

I do find it funny that the teaser states "Perhaps nothing is worse than watching a couple of casualties on a costly unit of Wraithguard turn into a devastating rout". Yeah, except a couple of casualties doesn't even affect the wraithguard unit morale wise (unless there are Ld debuffs in place), and if it did reach -4, then losing 1 wraithguard is hardly a devastating rout. Plonkers.

Oooo more made to order. Might pick up that Hawk Exarch.

 DivineVisitor wrote:


Agreed, Biel-Tan armies are generally heavy on Aspect Warriors, the alleged trait does nothing for 6 out of the 10 different Aspects and if you were running an Autarch /Avatar (i run both) it's even more pointless because the bonuses it provides are already surpassed by these characters. Nobody in their right mind would be going for it over the alleged Alaitoc trait or Ynarri.

I can understand it though, Divine. Biel-Tan has always been that they have a higher proportion of Aspects, not that theirs are necessarily better. Having the populace as a whole better at shooting and 'toughing out' incoming fire does represent a more militarised outlook a bit more neatly than simply "all Aspects get +x" to my mind. Not saying that it's necessarily the greatest upgrade in the world (though lord knows in most of my games "reroll all 1's" would have been a godsend! ) but I can see the logic.

As for the Guardian forcefields, I'm surprised it's taken so long; ever since Dawn of War had it as a squad upgrade, it's always been something I've thought was an obvious idea to bring in, especially to sell an 'upgrade pack' of little, clear plastic shapes to represent it.

 bullyboy wrote:
I currently have 2 Eldar forces...Iyanden and Ulthwe. The latter I just added with the Fracture book to get back the webway assault, so I hope it comes back.
As for the Iyanden trait, it's not terrible (especially for the non degrading vehicles/wraith constructs). but the leadership change only really affects guardians which will entice you to take a single large unit. It's really odd that you would add Guardians to act as a screen to protect your wraith constructs when in reality, the constructs should be protecting the precious lives of the few remaining Eldar on Iyanden, lol. Strange old game.

It's the other aspects that I think will help Iyanden, the improved toughness, cheaper spiritseers, strategems, etc. I typically run a 5 man axe/shield sqd on foot with farseer casting Fortune on them so didn't always use transports.

I do find it funny that the teaser states "Perhaps nothing is worse than watching a couple of casualties on a costly unit of Wraithguard turn into a devastating rout". Yeah, except a couple of casualties doesn't even affect the wraithguard unit morale wise (unless there are Ld debuffs in place), and if it did reach -4, then losing 1 wraithguard is hardly a devastating rout. Plonkers.

Same thing with the decreasing statline.....this hardly ever affects the hemlock (another wraith construct) due to auto hits where BS does not matter, but it sure helps a Crimson Hunter. So while I think the trait itself is fine, it certainly doesn't reward a force made mostly of wraith constructs, lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ratius wrote:
Oooo more made to order. Might pick up that Hawk Exarch.

where did you see this?

Why would Saim-haan want to charge anything? Why would Saim-haan ever want to take a Heavy weapon which can't use Battle Focus?

W H A T T H E F * * * * O F C Y R A X U S

 ph34r wrote:

4chan rumor

Why would Saim-haan want to charge anything? Why would Saim-haan ever want to take a Heavy weapon which can't use Battle Focus?

W H A T T H E F * * * * O F C Y R A X U S

Before getting upset, consider the source.

 pretre wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

4chan rumor

Why would Saim-haan want to charge anything? Why would Saim-haan ever want to take a Heavy weapon which can't use Battle Focus?

W H A T T H E F * * * * O F C Y R A X U S

Before getting upset, consider the source.

I consider the source shady as hell, but as the same time they got the first two right, and the first two were dumb and nonsensical. The last 3 being the obvious Raven Guard plus two more dumb and nonsensical fits my model of GW decision making to a T.

EDIT: (this is based off some user in this thread saying this photo was posted a few week ago somewhere on Facebook. I have no first hand knowledge of that being the case or not)

The Sam-Haim seems to be agaisn't the design phylosopy of all Chapter Tactics. They are all generic to affect all the army, how is the Sam-Haim one just gonna affect jetbikes?
So you have a Craftworld trait that affects all your army... but it doesn't? It doesn't makes sense.

 ph34r wrote:
EDIT: (this is based off some user in this thread saying this photo was posted a few week ago somewhere on Facebook. I have no first hand knowledge of that being the case or not)

According to GIS, that image is really new.

 Twoshoes23 wrote:
Jealous that IG didn't get the Made to Order treatment :(

They did, it was just well before the codex dropped. Lots of people were stocking up the different regiment models.

 pretre wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
EDIT: (this is based off some user in this thread saying this photo was posted a few week ago somewhere on Facebook. I have no first hand knowledge of that being the case or not)

According to GIS, that image is really new.

I pray you are right! The Eldar don't deserve garbage doctrines.

 ph34r wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 ph34r wrote:

4chan rumor

Why would Saim-haan want to charge anything? Why would Saim-haan ever want to take a Heavy weapon which can't use Battle Focus?

W H A T T H E F * * * * O F C Y R A X U S

Before getting upset, consider the source.

I consider the source shady as hell, but as the same time they got the first two right, and the first two were dumb and nonsensical. The last 3 being the obvious Raven Guard plus two more dumb and nonsensical fits my model of GW decision making to a T.

EDIT: (this is based off some user in this thread saying this photo was posted a few week ago somewhere on Facebook. I have no first hand knowledge of that being the case or not)

It's also worth mentioning that all of those are copy/pastes of existing ones.

Alaitoc--Raven Guard
Iyanden--Valhallan(who, even if it was posted a few weeks ago, had their stuff previewed on Warhammer Community)
Ulthwe--Iron Hands
Biel-Tan and Saim Hann are the ones that I can't remember exact replicas of.

So they get the 6+ ignore wound thing on everything but heaven forbid Iron Hands get anything close to good right?

Pictures angry Saim Hann players pulling shurican cannons off jetbikes and reapplying scatter lasers, lol.

Iyanden's isn't actually a copy-paste. Its morale effect is significantly better than what the Valhallan doctrine does (tempered by Eldar units benefiting much less from it than Guard units would). If the image predates any of these articles, that's pretty compelling.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
So they get the 6+ ignore wound thing on everything but heaven forbid Iron Hands get anything close to good right?

Oh yeah, this is total bs. They should absolutely FAQ Marines to get Chapter Tactics on everything, maybe excepting flyers. The only real problem unit I foresee would be Razorbacks, so nerf them in some other way.

There are enough dead horses in this thread to supply an entire Mongol horde.

At this point they should just give Chapter and Legion tactics to every type unit in Chapter Approved. (Ignoring superheavies and flyers, superheavies shouldn't have that, not baneblades or Mechanicus Knights ,etc... and IG flyers being Aeronautica Imperiales don't have them either)

Daedalus81 wrote:
There are enough dead horses in this thread to supply an entire Mongol horde.

An Undead Mongol Horde, maybe