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I think 5 PTS is a good deal for the profile really.

Overall, it has been a bit of a challenge using the new codex. I've gotten @ a dozen games in and was pretty close to what I felt comfortable fielding as a take all comers list. I suppose it takes me a bit of time as I need to play things out to really understand the ins and outs of an army: theorizing/reading online does very little for me.

Then, I got to play my first game with the Balance Dataslate... rough. Against the new Tyranids. Whoa...

I used the Nightspinner before the new codex. The new codex nerfed it somewhat as it no longer benefited from Guide and/or Doom and got a points increase. I had a stratagem to use IF I got Rangers within a certain range....a bit iffy. With the non LOS shooting changes, the Nightspinner went from a reasonable choice in my list to putting it back in the foam tray. I also tried a Wraithseer with D-Cannon. 40 Points for that weapon option was atrocious (I faced the new Tyranids).

So, I'm a bit back to the drawing board for list design. Not a huge issue, but a bit frustrating as I was not aware of how big an issue Craftworld indirect fire apparently was.

Support weapons have the guardian keyword.
I have been, for only 2 cp, buffing a 3 man D-cannon unit with, Discipline of the Black Guardians and Martial Citizenry. +1 to hit roll, and re-roll 1s.
Obviously everyone avoids D-cannons like the plague but there still is hope to a small degree.

Our strategy has changed a lot.
Getting a Night spinner or a support weapon IN LoS might actually be worth it with enough screening. Distract your opponent with cheap 100-120 point units that pack a punch if they ignore it.

I also, since the rule changes, have started fielding 10 Howling banshees. The -3 and -4 ap is just too hard too pass up for 205 points ( with upgrades )

Also! A single 5 man of striking scorpions with the Exarch mandi-blasters MW on 5s its pretty OP.

Throw in 1-2 falcons carrying some of this, coming in turn 1. Maybe bring in Jain' Zar.
I even had thoughts about bringing the AoK and Full move/Advance/Quicken him too the front line so all my changes get re-rolls turn 1. And they have an Avatar in there face as quite the bullet sponge if you throw Fortune in there. They cant over watch banshees, and you always fight 1st, or at least if you change, if they turn off your fight 1st.

Tau ruined Indirect fire for everyone, it was not CWE fault. : (

I have also been playing with a Shadow seer/10 man troop/Solitaire, As light.
These 3 single units have so much survivability my head explodes sometimes. I normally spend -2 cp for Prismatic Blur and Move/advance/quicken the troop right in front of my opponent and BEG them too shoot it.
Blitz the Solitaire forward, or wait 1 turn and use his Extra attacks, but i have had more luck sending these unit into the Frey and forgetting about them. Gives me more time too move up and score on objectives.

The days of sitting in the back and fire/fading is rough with poor rolling on battle focus. Scatter Bikes can still do some nice fly 1 inch battle move behind cover.
We still have fire and fade, and swooping hawks are just downright broken. Warp spiders also make my list, but they are not cheap and die from a puff of air.

I from now on will defiantly attempt too strike 1st and not hide in the back. They clearly want us too come out from the shadows, and then roll a 1 inch Battle focus move to our deaths......

I personally prefer Crushing blows on the Exarch over the Mandiblasters but they each have their purpose.

I don't run Ulthwe but that's a good stratagem to have in the back pocket for those that do and are fielding support weapons.

The Indirect Fire change is -1 BS and +1 Sv right? I had great success with the Wraithseer in my last game so I'm interested in seeing what comes of it in my next game.

I've barely had a chance to use the new book yet, but I did get a game in against the new 'nids with the freshly-nerfed night spinner the other day. Honestly, it still felt pretty worth it even with sub-standard rolls. Now that lances and fire dragons can reliably take down enemy long-ranged anti-tank guns, it's not that risky to move the night spinner into LoS halfway through the game. So sure, it might underperform for the first couple of turns while you're hiding it, but it still chips in some decent offense. You just have to be willing to risk its health to get the most out of its offense; same as most units.

Loving the new fire dragons. Probably going to be annoyed by the raw power boost once the new shiny feeling wears off, but it's nice to be able to point our anti-tank unit at a tank and trust that it will die again.

Super glad that banshees are viable without having to bend over backwards to support them. They're solid against heavy infantry, but they have weakness your opponent can exploit. Feels good. I've mostly been using Mirror Swords + Piercing Strikes.

 Sarigar wrote:
Overall, it has been a bit of a challenge using the new codex. I've gotten @ a dozen games in and was pretty close to what I felt comfortable fielding as a take all comers list. I suppose it takes me a bit of time as I need to play things out to really understand the ins and outs of an army: theorizing/reading online does very little for me.

Then, I got to play my first game with the Balance Dataslate... rough. Against the new Tyranids. Whoa...

I used the Nightspinner before the new codex. The new codex nerfed it somewhat as it no longer benefited from Guide and/or Doom and got a points increase. I had a stratagem to use IF I got Rangers within a certain range....a bit iffy. With the non LOS shooting changes, the Nightspinner went from a reasonable choice in my list to putting it back in the foam tray. I also tried a Wraithseer with D-Cannon. 40 Points for that weapon option was atrocious (I faced the new Tyranids).

So, I'm a bit back to the drawing board for list design. Not a huge issue, but a bit frustrating as I was not aware of how big an issue Craftworld indirect fire apparently was.

The issue, generally, I find is that we do still struggle with resilience. We have some of the best offence in the game but the other top armies combine good offence with much better resilience.
We get punished harder for small errors and someone like me, who tends to play a bit sloppy with movement, can get caught with stuff that I wasn't expecting. Having stuff in serpents does help a lot because they're easily our toughest unit.
I think the new nids look terrifying, strong in every phase and with mortals that make going in too close close a very dangerous strategy. I haven't played them yet but I think staying as far away as possible to wear them down from range combined with move blocking is the way I'd approach it but their stuff is very durable for the points so it's definitely looking like a tough match up.

Having done a little testing I've decided that our indirect fire is dead. They need to be able to see to be able to do any decent damage. The Nightspinner is still ok because it has good enough range and mobility to get LoS without being too exposed. But it's not terribly exciting as a unit now.

This has led to me testing Fire Prisms with Vectored Engines as a replacement, and I've been pleasantly surprised so far. I'm not sure I like them outside of Ulthwe though. The wound reroll combined with fate dice makes them very reliable, as does AP-5 and the option to ignore invuls. The 6++ can be very helpful too, especially as at 170pts they are likely to be To The Last units.

Speaking of TTL, I think it's something an Eldar list should always build for, along with Psychic secondarys. A Farseer Skyrunner jumping out to cast Doom and perform a Psychic action, before being quickened back to safety, is incredibly strong. These two secondaries combined with jump-shoot-jumping Hawks/Jetbikes/Prisms/Baharroth mean the opponent has to come to us. I like Stranglehold as the 3rd secondary as it's quite easy to flip center objectives with small units of Will of Asuryan-ed Banshees/Spears/Jetbikes.

Primary objectives are a bit trickier unfortunately. The best I can do to hold an objective seems to be parking a Wave Serpent on it and hoping it, or at least it's cargo, survives.

Wyldhunt wrote:
Loving the new fire dragons. Probably going to be annoyed by the raw power boost once the new shiny feeling wears off, but it's nice to be able to point our anti-tank unit at a tank and trust that it will die again.

Super glad that banshees are viable without having to bend over backwards to support them. They're solid against heavy infantry, but they have weakness your opponent can exploit. Feels good. I've mostly been using Mirror Swords + Piercing Strikes.

I feel the same way, Fire Dragons have always been a favorite aspect of mine so its great seeing them have a presence on the board again. I'm really loving the auto-wound trait against all the transhuman on the board these days. Happy to see DA, Scorpions and Banshees get a kip up in power as well.

Yeah. The auto-wound exarch power is really nice. It always sucks when our high-risk-high-cost dragons manage to flub their to-wound rolls.

What's everyone doing for troops these days? Avengers used to be my go-to, so I'm really feeling the move to elites. Rangers with Hunters of Ancient Relics have been pretty effective for me so far, but I kind of been nervous to give guardians a fair shot yet. I'm reluctant to invest in a wave serpent for one guardian squad. Maybe strategic reserves and deepstriking could work well with the new and improved defenders?

One unit of storm guardians with serpent shield. 16-20 blob. There to nab a no mans objective and be annoying to kill and do an action.

I think normal guardians are too costly. They have nowhene near the output of dire avengers imo. I played a 20 man blob with 2 bl platforms and they did terrible. I would say probably worth picking the cheapest platform for the saves and drop them in some cover for tanking.

Most people skimp out of troops. Rangers for a bit of forward board prescience (And they did get better with indirect nerfs)

I see almost no one competitively taking guardians, and often no more then 2 ranger squads

I'm planning to run 2x10 man DA squads and one storm 16 man storm guardian blob with Asurmen.

1 squad with OB sec exarch power
1 squad bodyguarding Asurmen

Asurmen squad in serpent the other DSing.
Storm guardians foot slogging.

I will let you know how it goes

Current Guardians are essentially old Avengers, 2 Shots at Range 18"; so overall an improvement but compared to the rest of the codex they look expensive.

I've run them and like them, but shelling out 270pts to fill a battalion isn't the greatest feeling in the world. Especially with all the T5 on the board.

With hail of doom defenders are decent enough to not be a tax now that indirect doesn't just blow them off the board. Doom and Jinx obviously help a lot.
Rangers still look the best for anyone else really, the forward deployment really helps with things like RND and engage.
Stormies look great with the new kit but still look a bit toothless to me unfortunately. Glad you're enjoying them though Argive.

 kingheff wrote:
With hail of doom defenders are decent enough to not be a tax now that indirect doesn't just blow them off the board. Doom and Jinx obviously help a lot.
Rangers still look the best for anyone else really, the forward deployment really helps with things like RND and engage.
Stormies look great with the new kit but still look a bit toothless to me, unfortunately. Glad you're enjoying them though Argive.

To me they are not there for output
Purely as Screen, hold critical objective to soak up disproportionate firepower while doing an action (raise banners etc.)
Investing in one fusion gun because you kind of expect one or two stormies to live past the turn they deploy to their objective.

I tried a full-blown 20-man Ulthwe guardian blob with two platforms and I found it hard to place them in from webway strike coz of the unit size, as well as getting a penalty for moving on the heapy weapons(which were just used as wound tankers). So the output was pants and I felt like I actually wanted them to do an action anyway. So why bother?

A 10-man die avenger unit is incredibly outclassing them

I would rather pay for Asurmen and equivalent amount of DA's I think.

Dire avengers are amazing. They can action AND shoot. It's so good.

That said, will of asuryan allows any unit to do this, and I think should, essentially, be in every list for this specific reason

I am liking the dire avengers as well. Especially when they can shoot twice after losing a model. With hail of doom they put in work and are good against hoard and elite

Have had good luck so far with Outrider detachment. Massive numbers of Windriders and vypers with shurikens. Shining spears. Hornets. Couple fire prisms. And farseer skyrunner. It just produces a massive volume of fire and can be outmaneuver and destroy one section of the board at a time. Going with masters of concealment and the one that gives 6s auto wound. The Windriders actually cause tons of auto wounds just from spamming shots and fishing for 6s.

 kingheff wrote:
With hail of doom defenders are decent enough to not be a tax now that indirect doesn't just blow them off the board. Doom and Jinx obviously help a lot.
Rangers still look the best for anyone else really, the forward deployment really helps with things like RND and engage.
Stormies look great with the new kit but still look a bit toothless to me unfortunately. Glad you're enjoying them though Argive.

Did they update Jinx so it only affects Armor Saves or does it affect Armor and Invuls?

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

 kingheff wrote:
With hail of doom defenders are decent enough to not be a tax now that indirect doesn't just blow them off the board. Doom and Jinx obviously help a lot.
Rangers still look the best for anyone else really, the forward deployment really helps with things like RND and engage.
Stormies look great with the new kit but still look a bit toothless to me unfortunately. Glad you're enjoying them though Argive.

Did they update Jinx so it only affects Armor Saves or does it affect Armor and Invuls?

Unfortunately it's still just normal saves, I don't think we affect invulns in many ways now right? Linked fire and the Yncarne are the only ones that come to mind for affecting them.

I know in the past we could boost Invuls with Protect but that got the ax recently. So I figured they made sure Jinx also does not affect Invuls. Probably better for balance that way.

I know this does not compute with pure CWE players, but, Harlequins get the gold metal when it comes to ignoring inv saves.

Keyword caress is on the Troup, and the Solitaire.
The Troup Master can get a Caress, and Queen of shards upgrade.

I went out and got a shadow seer/Solitaire/5-10 man troop the second I read Traveling players.

Its a cheep code, we can play 2 factions at once and it makes perfect sense in the lore.

I was never a fan of spamming the Haywire cannons as I could smell the Neff coming a mile away so I did not invest.

I've got a Troupe + Solitaire because I liked the models but I've never personally run them since I've always loved CWE the most. They do seem like a great support to have around, especially for tournament play.

Yeah for CWE players its MW or gtfo..

Or Fire Prisms.

Hello tactical internet! I've gotten lots of requests to post a battle report of a rematch against the eldar list I played about a month ago. Well today I'm happy to bring that to you. Yet again the souls of Ulthwe take on the Tyranids in a winner take all grudge match. Who will win this time?


Read the report here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tyranids/comments/uc0u2j/rematch_new_tyranids_vs_craftworlds_2000pt/


Let me know what you think and good luck in your future games! For the Hive Mind.

Going to try this. Deploy webway portal. Then drop 3x3 units of d cannons to annihilate anything tough. Also drop 3 wraithlords with flamers and ghost glaives to chop through hordes or anything else and to run interference. The sheer amount of firepower the d cannons can deliver is pretty crazy. From the middle of the board there is nothing they couldn’t hit.

RandomHeretic wrote:
Hello tactical internet! I've gotten lots of requests to post a battle report of a rematch against the eldar list I played about a month ago. Well today I'm happy to bring that to you. Yet again the souls of Ulthwe take on the Tyranids in a winner take all grudge match. Who will win this time?


Read the report here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tyranids/comments/uc0u2j/rematch_new_tyranids_vs_craftworlds_2000pt/


Let me know what you think and good luck in your future games! For the Hive Mind.

Great write up, made for interesting reading for sure.
But I'm assuming the Eldar guy doesn't run that list as a take all comers force? It seems to be skewed into taking out big targets and has little anti horde tech.

 kingheff wrote:

RandomHeretic wrote:
Hello tactical internet! I've gotten lots of requests to post a battle report of a rematch against the eldar list I played about a month ago. Well today I'm happy to bring that to you. Yet again the souls of Ulthwe take on the Tyranids in a winner take all grudge match. Who will win this time?


Read the report here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tyranids/comments/uc0u2j/rematch_new_tyranids_vs_craftworlds_2000pt/


Let me know what you think and good luck in your future games! For the Hive Mind.

Great write up, made for interesting reading for sure.
But I'm assuming the Eldar guy doesn't run that list as a take all comers force? It seems to be skewed into taking out big targets and has little anti horde tech.

That is his TAC list. I know he has won a couple of RTTs with either that list or the previous one with nightspinners. I think it is more flexible than it seems given the amount he is winning. All that said, obviously, I think where I am there is generally a pretty elite meta (custodes, harlequins, crisis suit tau, tyranids, etc.) and his list is built to beat the matchups he is expecting.

RandomHeretic wrote:
Hello tactical internet! I've gotten lots of requests to post a battle report of a rematch against the eldar list I played about a month ago. Well today I'm happy to bring that to you. Yet again the souls of Ulthwe take on the Tyranids in a winner take all grudge match. Who will win this time?


Read the report here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Tyranids/comments/uc0u2j/rematch_new_tyranids_vs_craftworlds_2000pt/


Let me know what you think and good luck in your future games! For the Hive Mind.

Thanks for sharing. I Really like the style of your reports, the diagrams are great for keeping track of what's happening.

That Eldar list is a bit out there, but is obviously working for the guy. No wizards! All the anti tank.