C'mon Forgeworld!! How about some CSM Land Raider love?

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**Praxiss**

I'm going ot go ahead and assume you have seen the new Land Raider AQchilles from Forge world....for thos eof you who havn't, it a Land Raide with a hull mounted Thunderfire cannon and TL MM sponsons....and has some rule for reducing damage (dont have the details to hand but it is nice!)

This brings the total number of "official" playable Marine Land Raider patterns up to 7 (Basic, Crusader, Redeemer, Helios, Prometheus, Terminus Ultra & Achilles).

What about us Chaos peeps? Stuck with one Land Raider varient that carries less and does not have a PotMS equivilent.

Has anyone seen/made up any decent rules for alternate Chaos land Raiders?

**Laughing God**

I agree whole heartedly. My and brother heinrich (dakka user) were disscussing this yesterday how they Imperium made all these advancements since the heresy... but the dark mechanicum (the technological cult with no limits to what it can and cannot develop and reserch) has come up with what since the heresy? Defilers and sonic weapons?

Come on GW give chaos some love, I know you need to make up for how awsome we were in 3rd but I think we have taken our licks from the "dumb down" stick since 4th...

**Element206**

Just more CSM models in general from FW would be nice to see

**Praxiss**

I will jump back in and say that Forgeworld have produced a far bit of CHaos gear. Those round walker things in one of the Vraks books...can't remember the name. And the Brass Scorpion, and Plague tank super heavy thing.

So it's nto they havn't produced anything at all. I just think that they could have fired out a couple of LRs for us as well.

The most common LR fan made varients tend to include Reaper Sponsons.......meh. Something original would be better.

**undivided**

I've got one, can't post pics though. Terminus Ultra minus one pair of Lascannons, replaced by two pairs of heavy bolters and an autocannon.

330 points of Chaosy Shooty Goodness.

**SilverMK2**

You would have thought there would be some, but ah well.

**Praxiss**

OK....so yuo've replaced the 2 single lascannons on the normal Terminus?

So it woudl have 2 TL Lascannon Sponsons, 1 Hull Mounted TL Lascannon, 2 TL Heavy Bolters _Sponsons?)and a single Autocannon....turret?

Ouchie.

**AlexHolker**

Maybe one for each Chaos god?

A fast variant for Khorne, that can fight in melee or tank shocks with biomechanical claws.
Sonic weapons for Slaanesh, effective at pinning and throwing out massive numbers of shots.
Some sort of bilethrower mortar for Nurgle, and a plague rot aura.
And a Tzeentch variant that gets an Invulnerable save and psychic powers.

**undivided**

Praxiss wrote:OK....so yuo've replaced the 2 single lascannons on the normal Terminus?

So it woudl have 2 TL Lascannon Sponsons, 1 Hull Mounted TL Lascannon, 2 TL Heavy Bolters _Sponsons?)and a single Autocannon....turret?

Ouchie.

2 Hull-mounted TL Heavy Bolters, 2 Lascannon Sponsons, 2 TL Lascannon Sponsons and one Autocannon.

**Praxiss**

Ouchie.

I've troyed with the idea of getting a Terminus for my Iron Warriors (the heavy weapons have a certain appeal) but it is WAY too expensive and you can't really field it in a normal 40k game.

Even the new Achilles is only 300 points. and i think most of the other LR varients are around the 230-250 mark.

**undivided**

My list is at around the 4,000 point mark, I have never thought of my beloved Despoiler Class LR to be a waste. It once eliminated a squad of marines, a LR Crusader and a Vanilla LR with a couple lucky rolls on the same turn.

**Praxiss**

The guns attacked different targets? So i'm guessing you count it as a super heavy then.

**undivided**

Hence the 330 points. Justified, yes?

**Cjc1223**

You missed a LR in your first post. The Aries it's got a demolisher cannon on the front. So the imperiums got 8 and chaos has 1.

**aka_mythos**

I really think that for GW to do more with the tank kits we first need to seem them be more than just include spikey bit sprues. No other army currently relies on its enemies vehicles for its kits. This is about distinguishing chaos as more than just an evil non-codex marine codex in every way possible. When GW was scarcer on resources we accepted limited models because it was all we could get, but I think we're beyond that.

I just think until GW takes Chaos vehicles more seriously, they will tend to always be the after thought to loyalists.

Its the simple question, why can't we see a true Chaos Rhino, where the detail is part of the hull and not just glued on? Heck if GW wanted to go further it could make it styled Pre-heresy. Even if we accept GW's glue on spikey bit Chaos vehicles, maybe GW should make them fit better; where the add on panels fit different spaces on the hull surface.

Chaos is an afterthought. FW and GW at this time really don't care much.

**Brother Heinrich**

Bunch of garbage if you ask me, yes FW has given us chaos guys lots of goodies and fluffy upgrade packs, we were also the first to get all legion specific dreadnoughts. However that still doesn't change the blatantly obvious love that Space Marines get.

I'm not even asking for some legion specific crazy Tzeentch or Khorne Landraiders, all we want is a few change-ups on the standard landraider chassis. Give us a crusader equivalent with racks of twin linked bolters (something we already use plentifully as CSM) and a Twin-linked autocannon turret. Maybe give us something like the Redeemer as well, fire is something chaos does pretty well I'd think.

Additionally what the hell is wrong with GW not letting us take dreadclaw drop pods, that is just a slap in the face to everyone who plays CSM. When in all the fluff history written both by GW and outside authors have chaos conducted planetary assaults with anything but dreadclaws. Here is a quote from C:CSM;

"during the Gothic War, Abaddon sent a fleet to attack the hive world of Corilia in the Quinrox Sound. Under the command of Vastakel Khyre, fifty Terminator-armored Black Legionnaires teleported from orbit into Patricius Hive, the seat of the Imperial Commander, Meanwhile other forces descended in drop pods to surround the capital and seal it off form the rest of the world." - Codex: Chaos Space Marines, Pg. 28

**IronChaos**

I agree with you Praxiss, FW has made many nice CSM things but there's a lack in Land Raiders. That, or GW should make new Chaos Land Raider variants, with a part on the codex, so CSM need a new codex. I think this is out of topic, but I would find nice god-dedicated vehicles (Marks) and other things.

**Praxiss**

I was actualy thinking along the same lines as Brother Neinrich above. Not after god specific or legion specific vehicles. Just standardised varients that any army coudl use.

The minute we get god or legion specific vehicles, SM players will start cryign out for chapter specific tanks (which BAs already have to a degree).

As for drop pods, my friends and i have agreed that i can use SM drop pods using the same rules and points, but it's not very fluffy. And it's just a house rule.

**MechaEmperor7000**

I can actually see Sonic Landraiders to be a Redeemer counterpart. Redeemer is easy, just have twin-linked Doom Sirens at where the Lascannons are and give a Blastmaster to the hull mounted hardpoint. There's also potential for Sorceror-type raiders, where being inside of them boosts the abilties of Sorcerors, and Daemonically possessed raiders that can actually fight in close combat rather than just have a second rate PotMS ability. Iron Warriors would probably also have a siege raider akin to that of the Land Raider Ares, although maybe have a hull-mounted basilisk cannon or two (I know how broken this would be, but at least it's a start). There are so much more possibilities with Chaos while also remaining fluffly (I still remember how most people cried cheese when we saw that the Achilles had a Thunderfire Cannon).

**SilverMK2**

Have to say I like the idea of an actual chaos tank rather than a standard one painted differently with a few spikes on it.

**aka_mythos**

FW was suppose to do more daemon engines, but they've been side tracked with all the other stuff since then... orks, elysians, and Raven Guard and another two books with a total of 17 space marine chapters. I used to believe FW was safe from the tyranny of "everything space marine" since the artists were given free reign. While that setup led to piles and piles of Imperial Guard, it was still better than more marines.

**MechaEmperor7000**

At least they didnt stick to pure loyalist guard either, with a fair bit amount of Traitor guard mixed in with the normal ones.

**Praxiss**

What makes me laugh about the Achilles was that some kid on these very forums came up with almost the exact idea in the Proposed Rules forum. Do a search for Land raider Thunderhead.

I suppose if they released more options and a dedicated box set it coudl work, Sonic weaponry could be pointed out as an option but it means that you HAVE to have at least oen unit of Noise MArines in the army. Something like that.

But a kit with some fluff behind it and blatantly Chaos would be the ideal. Look at the Defiler. It is the quintisential Chaos vehicle, not great admittedly. As has been said, All the chaos tanks are (wether it be LR, pred or Rhino) is just a reboxed SM set with an extra sprue.

**kronk**

I thought there was a rule in Apocolypse that the chaos legions could use ANY of the space marine entries. Isn't that covered in Apoc: Reloaded, or IA2: Apocolypse?

**MechaEmperor7000**

Apoc has very liberal rules since you can theoretically merge any faction with anything else, so I dont think it counts for the sake of argument. However model wise the best we can do is to "spikify" a current raider, rather than get a dedicated CSM one of our own.

**aka_mythos**

SilverMK2 wrote:Have to say I like the idea of an actual chaos tank rather than a standard one painted differently with a few spikes on it.

As a minimum effort of what GW could do, you can look at the Defiler and imagine all the same sort of boarders on a Rhino or Landraider. Maybe the engines with a different look, go old school exposing more of the exhaust.

I don't think anyone wants to see GW go crazy with Chaos Marines, but they are lacking. The Defiler is the only truly chaos plastic vehicle kit.

**MechaEmperor7000**

The Pre-heresy land Raider should be released as the new chaos landraider. It fits since the CSM should probably not have much in the ways of Post-heresy equipment, and that any newly constructed ones should probably be made from reproducing the old designs.

**SlaveToDorkness**

Just another example of GW pooping all over Chaos Space Marines. Yes, POOP! I say!

**aka_mythos**

It is indeed a mountain of feces... pure unadulterated defecation. Maybe I'm biased but I think Chaos and how they emblazen their vehicles is rather distinct but even Sisters of Battle have more going on than Chaos.

**candy.man**

I think just because FW can’t be arsed to release a CSM specific Land Raider, doesn’t mean they can’t release the rules for one. I remember IA7 contained the rules for a Grey Knights Land Raider Redeemer, which was basically a standard Redeemer except with a Hull mounted Psycannon and a sacred grenade launcher (confers I10 on the charge instead of a frag grenade effect). I could easily see FW being able to do something similar with Chaos by releasing the rules for a CSM variation to an existing Land Raider.

Since the Chaos stuff from FW appears to sell quite well, FW will most likely do another bumper Chaos release in the future. Hopefully a Land Raider ruleset is on the table.