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I've absolutely been smashed by a DE player the last 4-5 games. I can't figure it out. He starts everything mounted and takes a Huskblade, which always ends up one shotting my hive tyrant. He also primarily fields witches. Lots of witches.

Is there some major weakness to this army that I'm missing? Or is it just that 'Nids vs DE isn't a good match up?

-Adam

Think it might be a poor match up. Best defense against DE I've seen so far is a lot of good shooting attacks.

Hordes of little bugs, one of the weaknesses of DE besides their fragility is that they have a lot more trouble with hordes than elites or MCs.

Almost all their stuff is geared towards high toughness guys.

If you plan to just march across the board and assault the DE you are going to have massive problems. They are way too mobile for that. They will always get to choose the charges and can dance away from you very easily. Nids do have a few units that can make life hard for the DE.

Outflank is your friend. A few units can shorten the field a bit. Yarmgarls can jump out and reduce his "Safe" zone by even more. Deepstriking zoe's can cause a bit of a problem as well, not the best, but if you use them anyway they work with the rest of the stuff. Gargoyles can help slow him down a touch. Hive guard are evil vs the DE. Marlocs are often better then trygons as they enter with a large pie plate that can hurt and move the paper thin raiders around. Gaunts in mass can do well but need help from the other units to drop the transports. Plan on your monstrous creatures dieing, but they will eat some fire while you get the rest into position.

DE are a great answer to the Nids. However it is still a new dex and the normal nid tactics are just not going to cut it. Thinking out side the box and seeing combos in the nid codex that shortens the battlefield are a great way to achive surprise and victory vs the DE.

As mentioned the thing with 'nids is they are vulnerable to instadeath and poison. 2 things the dark eldar bring in spades. Best answer? IMHO take alot of decent shooting but single wound models. Lots of shots helps take them Down, and the single wound horde somewhat negates the poison. Don't try cc unless your sure you can win, since otherwise your just feeding him pain tokens. Otherwise just agree to sell him a few tyrants and 'fexs for the arenas and he might just leaveyou alone.

This time.

So, basically, tons of bugs. And don't worry about big bugs.

Sneaky bugs work better then lots of bugs but more bugs is always helpful.

The dark eldar are going to engage you in assault when they want to. A mounted army can run rings around you even though nids are fast. Poisoned weapons destroy monstrous creatures. The one weakness that I can't cope with (yet) is a horde of attacks against my units. Nothing in the army is much above T3. This means that with enough close combat in the right place, my dark eldar line wavers. Also high strength weapons in large numbers deny us an armour save usually. Try and use this to your advantage. Its a brand new book, so good luck...

His primary troops choice is witches or warriors in gun boats. And the witches are almost always in CC, so 4+ invul. with usually a 4+ feel no pain roll after they smash a unit of guants.

I don't have a clue how to beat it. I did pick up a unit of raveners this weekend as well as a trygon. I shall see.

Any more suggestions?

sk82712 wrote:His primary troops choice is witches or warriors in gun boats. And the witches are almost always in CC, so 4+ invul. with usually a 4+ feel no pain roll after they smash a unit of guants.

I don't have a clue how to beat it. I did pick up a unit of raveners this weekend as well as a trygon. I shall see.

Any more suggestions?

It sounds like your army is built poorly. You look to be blaming the DE strengths instead of looking at your weaknesses.

Your Hive Tyrant killed by a Huskblade? You should have Lash Whips so he goes second. That way even with a shadowfield he will be insta-killed if he fails a save meaning that it will be a chancy situation to go after your Tyrant.

Do not take a bunch of small units of Gants just to unlock Tervagons. DE can just kill them easily and they will unlock pain tokens making your job a lot harder. You need to add more durability into you army by having large Gant squads of 20-30 Gants. DE troops are just as fragile as yours are and they have trouble with large squads when you get a lot of attacks back at them.

Posting your list can give us an insight into what you are running, the point cost, and what synergies you are currently using.

sk82712 wrote:I've absolutely been smashed by a DE player the last 4-5 games. I can't figure it out. He starts everything mounted and takes a Huskblade, which always ends up one shotting my hive tyrant. He also primarily fields witches. Lots of witches.

Is there some major weakness to this army that I'm missing? Or is it just that 'Nids vs DE isn't a good match up?

-Adam

post your list and lets have a look. in general you want to avoid expensive, high toughness monsters because dark eldar poisoned weapons significantly reduce their survivability. typical strategy vs. the dark eldar is to destroy their transports as quickly as possible, since they are so reliant on them. dark eldar rely on their high initiative to make up for their comparitive fragility - IIRC tyranids have some options for taking that away from them. if the guy who has that ability is getting shot up consider keeping him in reserves, since if he isnt in play he cant get shot.

As a gunboat DE player.....here's a list that would scare me:

3x units of Hive Guard, who are sitting behind BLOS cover nuking transports left and right.
A couple of Tyrannofexes sitting in cover.

Other Tyranid shooty stuff. I would not recommend warriors.

Dashofpepper wrote:As a gunboat DE player.....here's a list that would scare me:

3x units of Hive Guard, who are sitting behind BLOS cover nuking transports left and right.
A couple of Tyrannofexes sitting in cover.

Other Tyranid shooty stuff. I would not recommend warriors.

What's wrong with dakka warriors? T doesn't matter against splinter weapons but they are 4+ with 3 wounds and DE don't seem to have a lot of S8 shooting besides dark lances which have a low rate of fire (and little bugs can give warriors a cover save).

The main problem with warriors is the short range of devourers or deathspitters. DE skimmers will be able to stay out of range and shoot you.

I haven't played against DE but what does anyone think of squads of 20 devourer gaunts in spods? 60 S4 shots should take down DE paper boats or mow down T3 infantry.

schadenfreude wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:As a gunboat DE player.....here's a list that would scare me:

3x units of Hive Guard, who are sitting behind BLOS cover nuking transports left and right.
A couple of Tyrannofexes sitting in cover.

Other Tyranid shooty stuff. I would not recommend warriors.

What's wrong with dakka warriors? T doesn't matter against splinter weapons but they are 4+ with 3 wounds and DE don't seem to have a lot of S8 shooting besides dark lances which have a low rate of fire (and little bugs can give warriors a cover save).

Perhaps you haven't seen the new DE codex. =p Blasters are STR8 AP2, 18" range, an effective 32" threat range...and you having T4 multiwound models on the table means they're going to get shot first. =D With lances AND blasters. I'll save the splinter fire for your T6 stuff.

You need to take Synapse though, and Warriors are a decent way of doing it. They can really help add in weight of fire to down those armies of gunboats by putting a Venom Cannon in each. And if you do fly up and jump out of your boats to shoot the Warriors with your Blasters, then you're losing those units to a wave of Gaunts.

Venomthropes maybe? I've only skimmed the delfdar codex, but they could protect your larger bugs and take the sting out of their charges. I don't know how the wych invuln works, but it may not apply to the dangerous terrain check they'll take when they charge you.

If you can keep a tervigon alive as well, you can present the DE player with a lose/lose option - They charge, take dangerous terrain checks, get no bonus, maybe strike last (they probably have grenades though) and our gaunt shell has counterattack OR we charge and its exactly the same except our In will be equal to theirs, and there is no dangerous terrain check

3 units of 20 genestealers with rending claws. Chuck some hive guard in for fun. Job done ...

ruminator wrote:3 units of 20 genestealers with rending claws. Chuck some hive guard in for fun. Job done ...

^^^

outflanking stealers cut down his movement options, hive guard in cover pen him in, gargoyles seal the deal.

little bugs are your friend, he goes from wounding like S6 weapons against your MC's, to wounding like lasguns against your little bugs

Poison Termagaunts. And lots of them. Sadly the big bugs fall rather quickly... but cover is your friend.

Steelers are good because of their good toughness and high initiative and WS. But if they get shot up you wont get the most out of them. Outflank is not bad, but you have to put pressure from the front as well. Warriors are ok, but dont rely on them heavily.

As requested, here is my current army list. What can you guys think of for 1000 pts vs DE? I dont think this is exact, but close enough. This isn't my build for the army, i picked it up used :/

2 hive tyrant
2 tyrant guard
18 Tyranid Warriors
46 Genestealers
41 Termagaunts
24 hormagaunts
5 Carnifex
3 Zoenthropes
10 Gargolyes
3 raveners
1 trygon prime

46 genestealers - that's a good start. Any broodlords?

Zoanthropes, gargoyles and gaunts - take them all.

Main risk v DE will be the warriors and carnifexes. Maybe proxy one fex as a tervigon and go full on gaunt swarm? Outflank the hormogaunts with the stealers using hive commander. Take both tyrant guard for one tyrant - drop them in cover.

what is the loadout on your fexes, warriors etc - this can affect what you can do with them ...

Tervigons and Catalyst gives your units feel know pain too...so I suggest you use this....not so good versus dark lances and blasters, but definitely useful versus all the splinter and poisoned nastiness...

lots of s6 shots will also help you....

Even against poison shots, after I put Feel No Pain on my Carnifex squad, which has two Carnifex, each having two Twin-Lined Devourers, they didn't go down. So much strength 6 ruins DEldar, and a 5+ save might as well not even be there at all (see genestealers :()

sk82712 wrote:As requested, here is my current army list. What can you guys think of for 1000 pts vs DE? I dont think this is exact, but close enough. This isn't my build for the army, i picked it up used :/

2 hive tyrant
2 tyrant guard
18 Tyranid Warriors
46 Genestealers
41 Termagaunts
24 hormagaunts
5 Carnifex
3 Zoenthropes
10 Gargolyes
3 raveners
1 trygon prime

reduce warrior count slightly
zoans are nice, but hive guard will serve you better, you don't need the tremendous firepower and low range of zoans to pop skimmers
stealers only need toxin sacs really
5 carnifex's are kind of overkill, i would drop the unit of 3 and instead take some biovores for dropping on troops after popping the transport, use extra points for more hive guard
way, way more than 10 gargs, think more like 60, high speed will keep DE on the move and let you dictate the fight.
I'd give the warrior units barbed stranglers for the HW guy, both so you can do minor wound allocation shanangins and to drop a pinning pie plate on troops.
I dont know how you use the carnifexes, but devourers could be pretty nice on them.

Basically pop the transports with the hive guard and then blast/assault the infantry, make sure your warriors and bigger bugs always have cover against dark lances, funnel him into the pain zone by threatening his sides with genestealers and fast moving gargs.
try not to assault transports, the guys will just get out and shoot you to hell, try to make very sure you blow the transport with hive guard and then assault its goey contents.

Hive Guard don't do much if DE are using Nightshields, which is something some of us actually do. That limits you to an effective 24" range, and also means you have to get within range of my Blasters.

Mawlocs are doing fairly well against me when I play my friends Nids. I'll light it up the next turn, but S6 AP2 shots can hurt.

Don't count on a swarm of S4 shots taking down a Raider or Ravager. It has yet to be done to me in 15 games, so I think it's safe to say it is a rarity, not a given. All you do is put your Gants in a nice range for all my weapons and a nice little assault, giving me a sweet pain token for my trouble.

Warriors with Lashwhips are a very big problem. Granted, an SC with a Shadowfield can go toe-to-toe with Warriors, or some of the few T4/T5 models in the army, but overall they get bumped up to a high priority.

Stranglethorn Cannons also do surprisingly well.

Grundz, your sig is the first to make me lol in a long time. I award you +1 Internetz and a cookie.

vishra wrote:Hive Guard don't do much if DE are using Nightshields, which is something some of us actually do. That limits you to an effective 24" range, and also means you have to get within range of my Blasters. Grundz, your sig is the first to make me lol in a long time. I award you +1 Internetz and a cookie.

hive guard dont need to shoot more than 24, the point is they can get cover from normal bugs, are cheaper, shoot twice, dont need LOS, and don't have to take psy tests. so you are getting 30 points extra to spend in exchange for an extra shot per model, longer range, and ignoring los? great deal.

and agreed barbed/stranglethorn cannons are underestimated, mostly because the platforms they come on are a little overcosted.