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DJ3 wrote:

yakface wrote:Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

The White Dwarf scans that are popping up say it's Front and Side only.

It looks like my money is going out the window again. I bought a laptop a few weeks ago, and now another £100 is going to Triarch Praetorians/Lychguard.

pretre wrote:

DJ3 wrote:

yakface wrote:Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

The White Dwarf scans that are popping up say it's Front and Side only.

No, the entire vehicle is covered by the shield. It's just the Front and Side that get the bonus.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

pretre wrote:

DJ3 wrote:

yakface wrote:Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

The White Dwarf scans that are popping up say it's Front and Side only.

No, the entire vehicle is covered by the shield. It's just the Front and Side that get the bonus.

Well yeah... But that doesn't help you in CC.

Codex isn't even out yet but we are already having rules arguments.

yakface wrote:And as for the old fluff about Tyranids purposely avoiding Necron worlds...how dumb is that from game perspective to have a 'reason' that Tyranids would never invade Necron Tomb Worlds? I don't care what kind of explanation is/was given, that never should have been part of the canon and it absolutely should be removed.

Be that as it may, I think they could have worked around while retaining the fluff. Several compelling scenarios have been explained in this very thread showing why Tyranids might choose to attack a tomb world even at great loss for little immediate benefit. I wish they had used a storytelling mechanic like that, rather then simply pretend the old fluff didn't happen - the worst kind of retcon.

The vast majority of the new book looks really good - I'm not, like, scrounging around for stuff to complain about and focusing on the negative. I'm really excited about the new Necrons. But, mostly good, some neutral, maybe a tiny bit bad, as I see it.

lol, I agree lets wait a little bit at least.

pretre wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

pretre wrote:

DJ3 wrote:

yakface wrote:Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

The White Dwarf scans that are popping up say it's Front and Side only.

No, the entire vehicle is covered by the shield. It's just the Front and Side that get the bonus.

Well yeah... But that doesn't help you in CC.

True, but I think the whole point was that it was originally 11/11/11 right?

So even at 11 rear, it's still fine for most CC. It doesn't bother me that the front sides are the only ones affected by the shielding.

So in other words, it'll be 13/13/11 with shield, fine by me. Once popped, it'll be 11/11/11 right? Still fine by me

@Dave, regarding the Tomb Stalker i have 3 of the lovely little blighters and just adore the look of horror when they are placed down on the tabletop, i did pop in to Games Day UK and went straight to see the new entry in the IAA 2nd Edition, the stats and rules all remain the same as the previous experimental rules which i was content with (although i would of loved a 3++ or 4++ as i always have plenty of lascannons aimed their way) but one thing did change in that they had a +10 point increase.
I hope there are other reasons your buying the book and not just due to the Tomb Stalker entry.

yakface wrote:

GiantSlingshot wrote:Alright, am I reading this correctly that QS only functions on Front and Side armor? I was feeling all cool that even in CC, it'd take a str 8 attack to pop the shields. (Against my friend that runs Ork Kopta's, it was a welcomed relief)

Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

He got it from the leaked codex page which specifies "counts all armour values on the front and s____ _____ings as being 2 higher".



Maybe, GW was actually concerened what the impact would be for nids if their transports were AV13 on the back.

Nah

Now here's a few rule gems I'm sure many will be polishing: weapon destroyed results on a Doomsday Ark, would one result take out the entire array or just one flayer gun?

Can a 1 wound Cryptek/Mini lord/ etc keep making resurrection protocols if Dante uses his mask power? You decide!

Kurgash wrote:Now here's a few rule gems I'm sure many will be polishing: weapon destroyed results on a Doomsday Ark, would one result take out the entire array or just one flayer gun?

Can a 1 wound Cryptek/Mini lord/ etc keep making resurrection protocols if Dante uses his mask power? You decide!

Gauss Flayer Arrays will almost certainly be defined as a single weapon in the Codex. There's virtually no chance of this actually being a problem.

Dante can't use his mask on Crypteks or Lords. They aren't ICs.

Edit: And even if they were, Dante's power specifies "to a minimum of 1." That's why you can't insta-gib enemy Sanguinary Priests.

I was under the impression they were, do they just pick a squad to join at the start of the game and go from there?

edit: Ah, so it makes it down to a limit.

Kurgash wrote:I was under the impression they were, do they just pick a squad to join at the start of the game and go from there?

edit: Ah, so it makes it down to a limit.

Yes, they pick and attach to a squad to act as Sergeants. Like Wolf Guard.

They'd be an unplayable KP-nightmare otherwise.

pretre wrote:

DJ3 wrote:

yakface wrote:Where did you get that idea from (I'm curious)? Quantum Shielding works in all cases until the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit.

The White Dwarf scans that are popping up say it's Front and Side only.

Thanks,

Good to know!

Everytime I read Str 9 Ap1 Large Blast I giggle.

4x10 Warriors in Ghost Arks looks to be about 1000 points and a good core for what I want to try and do, then comes the 30 Scarabs... should be a fun book!

Thanks for all the hard work rumormongers!

And as for the old fluff about Tyranids purposely avoiding Necron worlds...how dumb is that from game perspective to have a 'reason' that Tyranids would never invade Necron Tomb Worlds? I don't care what kind of explanation is/was given, that never should have been part of the canon and it absolutely should be removed.

Actually, it was just that the 'Nids were avoiding a Dyson sphere that may have contained the C' Tan known as the Outsider, likely his insanity was such that even they wanted nothing to do with it!

BladeWalker wrote:Everytime I read Str 9 Ap1 Large Blast I giggle.

4x10 Warriors in Ghost Arks looks to be about 1000 points and a good core for what I want to try and do, then comes the 30 Scarabs... should be a fun book!

Thanks for all the hard work rumormongers!

You know what else is roughly that many points? 4 x 20 warriors... since most people are going to end up taking a couple of veils anyway, you might as well...

Could Reconstruction be taken against a failed 'Death or Glory'?

General Legion wrote:Could Reconstruction be taken against a failed 'Death or Glory'?

Not with the current way Death or Glory is written. It prevents a model from recovering from that kind of death using absolutely any means.

Man, I'd kill my own grandma to let Immortals get in a ghost ark.

Everything looks like it's shaping up nicely.

Doomsday Ark had better not be 175 points as listed. A stationary S9 AP1 blast isn't worth anything close to that since it isn't ordnance.

EDIT:

So if PE does work out for shooting in the next edition, that'll be interesting for Destroyers. 60 points for a deepstriking TL lascannon is a bit much, but 120 points for a unit of deep striking TL gauss cannons would be wonderful now that they're AP3. 5 dead long fangs, and they're difficult to catch in an assault. They can even reasonably damage transports from the rear.

EDIT2: 19 pt deathmarks? Something tells me that if the rumored rapid fire rules are going to go into effect, these guys will be MVPs with their 2+ wound roll choices. I wonder if sniper rifles will remain rending.

chunky_baby wrote:
True, but I think the whole point was that it was originally 11/11/11 right?

So even at 11 rear, it's still fine for most CC. It doesn't bother me that the front sides are the only ones affected by the shielding.

So in other words, it'll be 13/13/11 with shield, fine by me. Once popped, it'll be 11/11/11 right? Still fine by me

Once its popped it will propably go down flaming. Its just harder for it to get hit. The penetrating hit that pops the QS will still destroy it on 5-6 or am i misreading QS?

Aandiin wrote:

chunky_baby wrote:
True, but I think the whole point was that it was originally 11/11/11 right?

So even at 11 rear, it's still fine for most CC. It doesn't bother me that the front sides are the only ones affected by the shielding.

So in other words, it'll be 13/13/11 with shield, fine by me. Once popped, it'll be 11/11/11 right? Still fine by me

Once its popped it will propably go down flaming. Its just harder for it to get hit. The penetrating hit that pops the QS will still destroy it on 5-6 or am i misreading QS?

Yep still will. If it penetrates it penetrates. And you get +1 since its opentopped...meaning that it's actually destroyed on a 4+

But on the brightside - an S7 weapon can't deactivate it if it hits the front or side
S8 needs a 6+
S9 needs a 5+
S10 needs a 4+

Wait a minute...Aren't Stalkers protected by QS as well?
So that means if a Stalker gets charged you have to deal with AV13

Farquestor wrote:

pretre wrote:"They BELONG in a museum!"

"So do YOU!"

Throw him over the side?

Ouze wrote:
Be that as it may, I think they could have worked around while retaining the fluff. Several compelling scenarios have been explained in this very thread showing why Tyranids might choose to attack a tomb world even at great loss for little immediate benefit. I wish they had used a storytelling mechanic like that, rather then simply pretend the old fluff didn't happen - the worst kind of retcon.

Y'know, I totally disagree. I think most properties that get saddled with sub-par legacy background material and then just try to add on a work-around to keep the old history in place while still fundamentally changing things end up being a terrible Frankenstein mish-mash of concepts that don't work together. I much prefer when creative people can identify when something just doesn't work and decide to cut-bait and start over again taking only the parts that worked and building up from there.

I think if you go back to Rogue Trader and look at the fluff that's there you'll see that over the years GW has on many occasions completely abandoned whole concepts that they felt didn't work. This is no different than movie franchise re-boots or comic book universe refreshes. Not to say that those concepts are always great or needed, but rather that gaming companies or GW specifically doing this isn't some sort of completely unheard of move.

From my own perspective, and I understand this is just me, while I LOVED the overall old Necron fluff from a galaxy-wide standpoint (in that it provided all sorts of cool insights on the overall history of the 40K galaxy), from an actual gameplay and army-collecting standpoint I think it was terrible.

The only personality in the old fluff was in the C'Tan. The only Necrons that had any personality were the Lords and even then it was supposed to be just a small glimmer of their past sentience. So while players did paint their Necrons up using different colors, etc, there was really no real fluff reason behind this kind of distinction. There was no real possible individuality to be had in your own force besides what units you chose to have (or not have) in your force.

In many ways, the old codex could have been called 'Codex C'Tan' much the same way the 'Vampire Counts' army book is called that instead of 'Undead'...the personality behind the Vampire Counts army is the Vampire Counts and so therefore that's really what the book is centered around.

The previous Necron book and fluff just didn't provide the kind of possible creativity that the rest of the armies in 40K do. Hell, even Tyranid Hive Minds have enough sentience and fluff to them to explain different patterns in behavior and looks. So that literally made Necrons the most boring (in terms of player personalization) of any army in the game. And while for many that actually collected Necrons that may have been a positive (something totally different), I think for most players it was a turn-off. I could be wrong, and maybe everyone did like having no fluff justification for putting their own personal slant on their Necron armies, but judging from the overall reaction of these new rumors, I don't think I'm wrong.


The new fluff puts the Necrons themselves at the center of their own codex (as it always should have been) with C'Tan taking the backseat where they deserve to be on the table. The door is still there to have the Deceiver running around manipulating things, but in terms of fluff the Necrons themselves are diverse enough to allow people to create any kind of Necron force and fluff they can think of...which was obviously GW's goal.

If you want to play Necrons as mindless automatons, you can. If you want to play them as mercenaries, you can. If you want to play them as worshipers of a C'Tan shard, you can. The point is, as with the rest of the codexes they've opened it up to allow people to play and create their armies as wide as their imaginations will take them instead of rigidly saying: No, the Necrons only behave like X, Y & Z.


So I say good riddance to the old fluff. The stuff I've read from fluff alone has made me for the first time ever think that making a Necron army could be a rewarding venture, which to me (at least) says that they made the right move by going with a radical change in the Necron fluff.

Aandiin wrote:

chunky_baby wrote:
True, but I think the whole point was that it was originally 11/11/11 right?

So even at 11 rear, it's still fine for most CC. It doesn't bother me that the front sides are the only ones affected by the shielding.

So in other words, it'll be 13/13/11 with shield, fine by me. Once popped, it'll be 11/11/11 right? Still fine by me

Once its popped it will propably go down flaming. Its just harder for it to get hit. The penetrating hit that pops the QS will still destroy it on 5-6 or am i misreading QS?

4-6 actually, thanks to open-topped. 3+ is more likely due to the fact it was probably a melta that got it.

The thing is, it'll be hard to penetrate without going out of your way to do so, I think. Even 15 ML @ BS4 only results in 2 penetrates, and that's a lot of shots that didn't get directed at command barges, wraiths, scarabs, etc. That's provided the enemy could even see them in the dark, too.

Even without Imotek I'm seriously considering the aggressive use of Solar Pulses to protect arks and scythes for a turn.

So yak, can we confirm QS isn't on the night scythe for sure? Considering the problems with the thing (AV11 all around, no assaulting out of it, popping it probably takes the unit out of the game effectively, etc), I don't see it costing reasonably more than the ghost ark.

Ostrakon wrote:
Even without Imotek I'm seriously considering the aggressive use of Solar Pulses to protect arks and scythes for a turn.

So yak, can we confirm QS isn't on the night scythe for sure? Considering the problems with the thing (AV11 all around, no assaulting out of it, popping it probably takes the unit out of the game effectively, etc), I don't see it costing reasonably more than the ghost ark.

Yeah, what I have says that both the Scythe vehicles (Doom & Night) do NOT have Quantum Shielding...perhaps Quantum Shielding doesn't work on fast moving vehicles (from a fluff perspective)?

yakface wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:
Even without Imotek I'm seriously considering the aggressive use of Solar Pulses to protect arks and scythes for a turn.

So yak, can we confirm QS isn't on the night scythe for sure? Considering the problems with the thing (AV11 all around, no assaulting out of it, popping it probably takes the unit out of the game effectively, etc), I don't see it costing reasonably more than the ghost ark.

Yeah, what I have says that both the Scythe vehicles (Doom & Night) do NOT have Quantum Shielding...perhaps Quantum Shielding doesn't work on fast moving vehicles (from a fluff perspective)?

So I guess you gotta just turbo-boost that guy in and pray it survives the turn. Something tells me a Veil is a better way to get my lychguard across the table.

yakface wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:
Even without Imotek I'm seriously considering the aggressive use of Solar Pulses to protect arks and scythes for a turn.

So yak, can we confirm QS isn't on the night scythe for sure? Considering the problems with the thing (AV11 all around, no assaulting out of it, popping it probably takes the unit out of the game effectively, etc), I don't see it costing reasonably more than the ghost ark.

Yeah, what I have says that both the Scythe vehicles (Doom & Night) do NOT have Quantum Shielding...perhaps Quantum Shielding doesn't work on fast moving vehicles (from a fluff perspective)?

But then why does the Command Barge have QS?

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
But then why does the Command Barge have QS?

Because it can't move 'supersonic' like the skimmer/flyers can?

I'm just throwing out a random fluff justification idea...but I think it will be relatively easy to remember since those two vehicles are not open-topped and are basically flyers and typically flyer style vehicles in the game tend to be poorly protected (as theoretically their fast movement is supposed to make them more durable, which of course doesn't translate quite well into standard 40K games, but is represented quite nicely in Apocalypse, perhaps even too much).