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I just want to know because my friend wants to use a squad of them and i think it is a bad idea

Well, no, not really. Carnifexes may not be the be-all and end-all of Tyranid anti-tank units any more, but their day is far from gone. I'd say they still represent a nasty threat to any general, regardless of their diminished status.
Hope that helped.

yea but is it worth taking 3 of them in a squad

They're largely relegated to anti-tank work now, being the only S9 creature in the entire list (although there are weapons with S10 in the book). However you'd probably should put them in a Mycetic Spore to get the most out of them, so no for the 3 squads. 2 is a good number since you can attach two Primes and give them a cover save, but if you want range a Tyrannofex is better, and getting into CC a Trygon is better.

shadeyaces wrote:yea but is it worth taking 3 of them in a squad

It depends on how he wants to load them out, what the rest of his army is, and how many points he's playing at.

In short, can't answer your question because we don't have enough information.

3 might be a little expensive, but 2 is a nice number.

3 Carnifexes is pretty powerful. Shame people don't run them like this based on the misinformation they hear online.

Run 3 with minimal upgrades. Watch as your opponent will try everything under the sun to try to avoid that unit or kill it over the course of a few turns.

the base fex with no upgrades isnt that bad of a MC actually. It's only when the upgrades are tacted on that the price really soars. The main problem everyone sees with it is that the Fex is almost twice the cost of a Wraithlord, but is largely inferior in almost all respects.

You can take fex squads now?

Hell im out of the loop.

They aren't terrible, unless your fighting dark eldar...

They arent terrible it's just there are "better" options available in the current codex. The fact you can't take a kitted squad with them is what keeps them in the meh category ...

Somehow in the power creep that is 5th ed codexes Nids were looked over imo.

I do like them with the tw-lk devourers? IIRC enough shots to drop most things

I find the only way to take three of them is with a Venomthrope to provide a cover save. Use the bulk of the Carnifexes to provide a cover save to the Venomthrope.

quite frankly I can see why they were nerfed, a unit of 3 of the old fexes would have completely rearranged the face of anything it got within arms length and made them far superior to the Trygons and Tyrannofexes. However the general nerf was...less than well executed.

How easy would it be to take down three Carnifexes in a squad?

Yeah, I thought so. They're not the be all-end all anymore, but they're still effective.

Three current fexes in a squad, pretty easy. 3 fexes at about 100 points each? not so much.

You can Catalyze one brood of Carnifexen for T6 Sv3+ Cv5+ Feel No Pain W12. You can also cast Onslaught so that the brood moves, run, and shoots.

Frag Spines and an Adrenal Gland means that they can assault units in difficult terrain with S10 I4 and lock them in combat. T6 and W4 means they should last until you can direct some other unit to come in and mop up.

The ability to employ Heavy Venom Cannons means you can start knocking out enemy transports early in the game. If you can Stun or Immobilize a vehicle then that vehicle can be surrounded, destroyed, and its passengers wiped out. They're pretty good against stuff with Feel No Pain and multiple wounds thanks to S9 and Blast. Against Open-Topped Vehicles such as Raiders, they're a Lascannon.

They don't need anything else, although Crushing Claws will give you the abilities of 2x Scything Talons, greater potential, and at disproportionate cost. I've wondered about Regeneration. The Carnifex Brood isn't complex, but being able to save the odd wound gives it a third saving throw along with the official ones and Feel No Pain (officially just a roll). While it won't work for every 4th wound, the other three work nicely to soak up the save small arms fire and stray shots that seeps through a 3+ save. It's a wonderful way to absorb firepower. It's something of a Sv2.5+. Still 75pts...

One of the great uses of the Tyranid Prime is to absorb weak Instant Death shots for an accompanying unit. Used in combination with Venomthropes they can suck up two Krak Missile wounds before expiring. So the opponent would have to fire at least four Krak Missiles to kill one Venomthrope and the Tyranid Prime. Or one Carnifex of around the same points. Not exclusive though: Prime and Venomthropes behind the Carnifexen, for Cv5+, defensive grenades, and dangerous terrain to assault them. All under the Prime's Synapse.

Even if the Prime's Synapse is lost you should have Tervigons for Dominion, and other Synapse besides. There's the advantage that only one Carnifex needs to be within Synapse and spread out in a line, they increase the number of units they can charge, while reducing No Retreat wounds inflicted to a single unit.

Three units of Carnifexen losing by one point face the real problem of losing losing three wounds. Three Carnifexen in one unit only risk one extra wound.

Are they horrible, horrible useless trash? No. But they got swept up in the WE MUST NERF NIDZILLA RAWR RAWR NO LOGIC OR COMMON SENSE NERF NERF NERF crap. Even at bare bones costs they still have to compete with a Trygon in the exact same slot for only 40 more points, points that are made up for with the free drop po- I MEAN MYCETIC SPORE that comes in the Trygon as well as the free shooting attack and the two extra wounds and the more attacks and the higher initiative and the fleet rule. Taking a unit of three carnifexes is throwing good points after bad because per the codex the brood must, must, must be equipped identically so you have no ability to shift wounds around and keep them alive. The entire unit takes wounds, every fourth wound you lose a Carnifex.

In the end it's just best to admit that the Carnie's been nerfed, Trygons are the new hotness and the entire codex has issues.

Nurglitch wrote:although Crushing Claws will give you the abilities of 2x Scything Talons

Scything Talons now grant Rerolls, not additional attacks. Venom Cannons also are not vehicle hunters. With the sub-par BS of the Fex, it'd be lucky to even touch the vehicle, much less strike it with enough force to blow it up. Their Special Rule doesnt help either. Employing any HVCs means that you loose a precious Scything talon, reducing your capacity for Rerolls in CC.

Also, tallying up all of those points, you have something hitting 600 points, which is really not practical for a single footslogging unit. Add on the Tervigon it would be almost half your army in 2000 points. As for Synapse, it's not really needed. With Synapse all over the place, unless you really skimped on the choices you should not be hard pressed for Synapse. Feed also means that the fex is likely going to continue on against whichever unit you originally siced it on anyways.

For all that points, I'd rather take two basic Trygons and a Tyrannofex, which is about the same price, but much more effective at what they do (Close combat and Ranged combat respectively) rather than try and go mid-way with three fexes in a single unit (that's another thing. A single Devastator squad will destroy you, as krak missiles will inflict horrific wounds as well as carrying any excess wounds onto other fexes in the unit). The only perk I can see to taking a 3 fex squad is taking them to max out your MCs, which can reach 9 if you do so (which is something the other two cannot) however at that amount of points, you're getting into Apoc Territory, meaning the FoC is out the window and you can just take 9 Trygons instead.

This should be in tactics not general discussion.

To answer your question (and I know this person, but it doesn't mean I'll go easy on him), Carnifexes are not good anymore because of their WS and their Init.

Most units in the game, and I'm referring to DE here, have weapons that wound automatically on a certain roll like poison weapons. Toughness is not so much an issue anymore for many races like it was in 4th edition. In fact I think in 4th Tyranids, and DE, were the only two races with poisoned weapons though I may be wrong. Carnifexes therefore need to be able to hit at the same time or before many other units especially without an invulnerable save. I'll take Asdrubael Vect, his agonizer wounds on a 2+ and he has something like 6 or 7 attacks on the charge, combine that with other units that have poisoned weapons and Carnifexes go down very easily. One of the easiest ways to kill a Carnifex is with force weapons. The Librarian is getting to go first and only has to inflict one wound to kill it outright. Blood Angels librarians like Mephiston totally destroy Carnifexes flat.

The fact of the matter is Carnifexes are only good at anti-tank but Tyranids have other units that can do that just as good. Zoanthropes with their Str 10 Ap 1 Lance, Mawloc coming up from the ground, and Hive Guard. In CC Carnifexes aren't good against Marines, Chaos Marines, and especially Orkz, because of the fact that most of the them have Power Fists/Power Claws which make mince meat out of Carnifexes in CC.

Carnifexes used to be good back in 4th and doing an army of Nidzilla was pretty awesome. Now they struggle to find uses and especially struggle against most of the other CC units in the games.

Plague Marines had the option of taking Poisoned weapons, most armies had snipers otherwise, and Eldar had Witchblades. However only DE had widespread Poison weapons (Nids didnt have them. While they had Toxin Sacs, it had a different effect in the previous edition).

MechaEmperor7000: Consider +1D3 extra attacks.

That means 5+2 attacks on average on the charge. 7 attacks will hit targets on 0.5 rather than 5 attacks on 0.75. That's 3.5 vs 3.75. Advange Scything Talons? No, the Scything Talons have a limit of 5 wounds. The Crushing Claws give a maximum limit of 8 wounds. That 60% increase in potential more than evens out the 7% increase in reliability. Hence they give you abilities of dual Scything Talons because the abilities of dual Scything Talons are determined by their limit and average.

Likewise Venom Cannons are S9 with an AP value. They will hit like Lascannons. There are two complications: They are Blast and they have a -1 to non-Open-Topped vehicles. That they are Blast and Carnifex BS is 3 means there a 1/6 chance of a Blast not missing if it scatters. It's 0.33 + 0.17 = 0.50. So it's essentially a 4+ to hit against a Rhino or anything else 2"+ wide like a Battlewagon.

Against Open-Topped Vehicles it's a BS3 Lascannon shot. Its best utility is Dark Eldar, Eldar, and Orks as the races that use lightly armoured open-topped transports. Its second best utility is against Rhinos though. It's penetrating 4/6 of the time, and glancing the other 1/6.

Shaken (4/6)(1/6)+(2/6)(4/6) = 0.33
Stunned (1/6)(1/6)+(1/6)(4/6) = 0.14
Weapon Destroyed (1/6)(1/6)+(1/6)(4/6) = 0.14
Immobilized 0+(1/6)(4/6) = 0.11
Destroy (wrecked & explodes) (1/6)(4/6) = 0.11

So:
Firing a group of three should be something like destroying a Rhino 0.33 of the time. If the vehicle can be Stunned, it counts in the Immobilized column in your next player turn: automatic hits in close combat. If the vehicle can't be Stunned, it counts in the Stunned column. Preventing a Rhino from moving is good when that synergizes with the Carnifex attacking the vehicle successfully. In that case, a Stunned Rhino being attacked by a Crushing Claw Carnifex in the turn following its Stunning (so assault range of 18" over two turns) has the following returns against a Rhino it charges, unlike a Dual Scything Talon Carnifex attacking a Rhino that moved 12": 6.93 attacks hitting the Rhino, penetrating on 0.97, glancing on 0.3. So 6.72 penetrating hits, or 2.21 destroyed results. This intersects with the Venom Cannon's Stunned and Immobilized results and thus is additive to the Venom Cannon's Destroy results. That's 0.25 for the Stunned/Immobilized results, 0.11 for the Destroyed results. So (0.25)(2.21)+0.11 = 0.66 destroyed results.

By contrast with 5 attacks hitting on 6s re-rolled will see 1.46 hits, for 1.42 penetrating hits, and 0.47 destroyed results. With a 12"; move the Carnifex might not even catch the Rhino.

So with an investment of 50pts, you add 31% to the cost while upping its effectiveness in destroying against Rhinos 40%, allowing it to engage in fast long ranged vehicles, and even contribute to anti-infantry work in dealing with any Feel No Pain/Multiple wound infantry.

You don't sit back and snipe with a Carnifex, you want to use its gun to soften up the enemy for an assault. The Stranglethorn cannon was made for Imperial Guard Platoons, while the Heavy Venom Cannon is anti-Rhino and anti-Raider.

The Scything Talon Carnifex is about 72% as reliable as the Crushing Claw Venom Cannon in destroying Rhinos, and much less reliable at suppressing them. Your Carnifex loses very little in not having two Scything Talons, and gains the potential for more attacks. The combination of Crushing Claws and Heavy Venom Cannons pushes the cost north, but introduces utility to complement the Carnifex's offensive capabilities as well as enhance it. In essense the Crushing Claw Venom Cannon Carnifex is rolling a 3+ to destroy a Rhino, while a Dual Scything Talon Carnifex is roll 4+.

As I've pointed out, Regeneration will confer more protection to a Carnifex brood than a single creature. Monstrous Creatures not only benefit from being in a brood, they benefit from being in a brood that can shoot and assault, and be within 6"; of Venomthropes, and be a single target for Catalyst and Onslaught. With twice the attacks, wounds, a better gun, and 150% of the Strength of a Trygon, they're much more dangerous. They cause Instant Death on T4 model, and can penetrate a Land Raider 0.72 of the time while a Trygon can penetrate a Land Raider 0.27. And what a difference it makes.

A Trygon hitting a Land Raider with 7 attacks on 4+ with rerolls will hit with 4.5 hits, and 1.42 penetrating hits, for 0.47 Destroyed (wrecked or explodes). A Carnifex with Crushing Claws hitting a Land Raider on 4+ will have 6.93 attacks, or 3.47 hits, and 2.49 penetrating hits for 0.82 Destroyed (wrecked or explodes). A Trygon would need to roll a 9+(!) to penetrate a Land Raider! A Carnifex needs a 6+ (on 2D6) with Crushing Claws. In essense a Carnifex has a 2+ and a Trygon has a 4+. That's ignoring the Carnifex's shooting advantage.

The Carnifex has less wounds than a Trygon, but they are better able to use cover. W4 & Cv4+ > W6. Then there's the reiteration of protecting three Monstrous Creatures with the same save from Venomthropes and the same Feel No Pain from Catalyst.

Edit: Corrected the move, counted the charging bonus twice against Crushing Claw bonus and basic attacks. Fixed now. Adjusted analysis scores accordingly. Crushing Claw Carnifex will better than Trygon or Dual Scything Talon Carnifex. And, of course, a Carnifex can penetrate a Monolith.

Nurglitch wrote:MechaEmperor7000: Consider +1D3 extra attacks.

That means 5+2 attacks on average on the charge. 7 attacks will hit targets on 0.5 rather than 5 attacks on 0.75. That's 3.5 vs 3.75. Advange Scything Talons? No, the Scything Talons have a limit of 5 wounds. The Crushing Claws give a maximum limit of 8 wounds. That 60% increase in potential more than evens out the 7% increase in reliability. Hence they give you abilities of dual Scything Talons because the abilities of dual Scything Talons are determined by their limit and average.

Likewise Venom Cannons are S9 with an AP value. They will hit like Lascannons. There are two complications: They are Blast and they have a -1 to non-Open-Topped vehicles. That they are Blast and Carnifex BS is 3 means there a 1/6 chance of a Blast not missing if it scatters. It's 0.33 + 0.17 = 0.50. So it's essentially a 4+ to hit against a Rhino or anything else 2"+ wide like a Battlewagon.

Against Open-Topped Vehicles it's a BS3 Lascannon shot. Its best utility is Dark Eldar, Eldar, and Orks as the races that use lightly armoured open-topped transports. Its second best utility is against Rhinos though. It's penetrating 4/6 of the time, and glancing the other 1/6.

Shaken (4/6)(1/6)+(2/6)(4/6) = 0.33
Stunned (1/6)(1/6)+(1/6)(4/6) = 0.14
Weapon Destroyed (1/6)(1/6)+(1/6)(4/6) = 0.14
Immobilized 0+(1/6)(4/6) = 0.11
Destroy (wrecked & explodes) (1/6)(4/6) = 0.11

So:
Firing a group of three should be something like destroying a Rhino 0.33 of the time. If the vehicle can be Stunned, it counts in the Immobilized column in your next player turn: automatic hits in close combat. If the vehicle can't be Stunned, it counts in the Stunned column. Preventing a Rhino from moving is good when that synergizes with the Carnifex attacking the vehicle successfully. In that case, a Stunned Rhino being attacked by a Crushing Claw Carnifex in the turn following its Stunning (so assault range of 18" over two turns) has the following returns against a Rhino it charges, unlike a Dual Scything Talon Carnifex attacking a Rhino that moved 12": 7.92 attacks hitting the Rhino, penetrating on 0.97, glancing on 0.3. So 7.68 penetrating hits, or 2.54 destroyed results. This intersects with the Venom Cannon's Stunned and Immobilized results and thus is additive to the Venom Cannon's Destroy results. That's 0.25 for the Stunned/Immobilized results, 0.11 for the Destroyed results. So (0.25)(2.54)+0.11 = 0.75 destroyed results.

By contrast with 5 attacks hitting on 6s re-rolled will see 1.46 hits, for 1.42 penetrating hits, and 0.47 destroyed results. With a 12" move the Carnifex might not even catch the Rhino.

So with an investment of 50pts, you add 31% to the cost while upping its effectiveness in destroying against Rhinos 60%, allowing it to engage in fast long ranged vehicles, and even contribute to anti-infantry work in dealing with any Feel No Pain/Multiple wound infantry.

You don't sit back and snipe with a Carnifex, you want to use its gun to soften up the enemy for an assault. The Stranglethorn cannon was made for Imperial Guard Platoons, while the Heavy Venom Cannon is anti-Rhino and anti-Raider.

The Scything Talon Carnifex is about 18% as reliable as the Crushing Claw Venom Cannon in destroying Rhinos, and much less reliable at suppressing them. Your Carnifex loses very little in not having two Scything Talons, and gains the potential for more attacks. The combination of Crushing Claws and Heavy Venom Cannons pushes the cost north, but introduces utility to complement the Carnifex's offensive capabilities as well as enhance it.

As I've pointed out, Regeneration will confer more protection to a Carnifex brood than a single creature. Monstrous Creatures not only benefit from being in a brood, they benefit from being in a brood that can shoot and assault, and be within 6" of Venomthropes, and be a single target for Catalyst and Onslaught. With twice the attacks, wounds, a better gun, and 150% of the Strength of a Trygon, they're much more dangerous. They cause Instant Death on T4 model, and can penetrate a Land Raider 0.72 of the time while a Trygon can penetrate a Land Raider 0.27.

A Trygon hitting a Land Raider with 7 attacks on 4+ with rerolls will hit with 4.5 hits, and 1.42 penetrating hits, for 0.47 Destroyed (wrecked or explodes). A Carnifex with Crushing Claws hitting a Land Raider on 4+ will have 7.92 attacks, or 3.96 hits, and 2.85 penetrating hits for 0.94 Destroyed (wrecked or explodes). A Trygon would need to roll a 9+(!) to penetrate a Land Raider! A Carnifex needs a 6+ (on 2D6) with Crushing Claws.

The Carnifex has less wounds than a Trygon, but they are better able to use cover. W4 & Cv4+ > W6. Then there's the reiteration of protecting three Monstrous Creatures with the same save from Venomthropes and the same Feel No Pain from Catalyst.

I cant help but feel that you intentionally said "same as 2 scything talons" just to get a reaction from someone. However I disagree with Crushing Claws being the same. It effectively turns the carnifex into a massive walking power fist, rendering one if it's own rules inert. the +2 attacks on average is subjective. Any result on that die can come up just as equally. Mathematically it should be "on average" but it's a farcry from a 7 on 2D6. The Heavy Venom cannon scatters an average of 4 inches whenever it doesnt get a hit The Blast template it uses is smaller than that. and even if it does hit it's only effective against Rhinos and Chimeras. Against a Land Raider, you'd only pen on a 6 and glance on a 5. And on a glancing hit, you have a 50% chance of only shaking the crew, which is semi-negated by the PotMS. Against DE Open Topped vehicles, remember that the contents possess Poisoned weapons that will come to punish you badly. Being in a squad also doesnt help, as any wounds are immediately carried over to the next fex in the squad, and no wound allocation due to requiring identical equipment.

There must also be the mention of the horrendous cost of all this. With just the bare minimum of the upgrades you listed (Crushing Claws, HVC and Regen) the cost of all three fexes together is a whopping 705 points. Taking a bare naked Tervigon to give them that added Onslaught or Catalyst ability raises the cost to 895. Venomthrope pushes the cost again up to a massive 950 points. Three Trygons can do all of that for a mere 600 points and not take up an HQ and Elite Slot, as well as be flexible enough to go after other targets after tanks are done and dealt with. While they do take up all three Heavy Support Choices, you're probably not going to have any points left to spend on mroe HS choices after that threshold. Trygons also dont need to worry about cover saves at all, since they just pop up from the ground. They do get shot at before they do get to charge, but they are equipped with a formidable weapon of their own, so they're not entirely defenseless (and the same as any Fex getting into that range). On top of that they can catch Rhinos much faster than Fexes, due to having Fleet. The reason I mentioned the Scything talon bare naked fex was to keep costs down, as it is quite effective for the points you pay (although still no comparison for the Trygon). Also, splitting up the units means your opponent has to split his fire. Sure you protect all three fexes with the same cover save and the same FnP, but when your opponent points all their poisoned Splinter rifles at you, you'd probably be wishing for the ability to force them to pick only one fex to put the hurt on.

On the other end of the spectrum, there's the Tyrannofex. For a modest 65 point increase, you get somethign with a S10 48" range shot, which will make a mockery of anything short of a land raider, and will still tear up a raider at max range. Getting in close, the Tyrannofex still has two Template weapons for clearing out close by enemies, not to mention being a MC itself.

Bottom line is, no matter how much justification given to the fexes, there are just better alternatives. Three doesnt make it any better since now you have a gigantic target walking around saying "shoot me" due to the massive amount of points they're worth. Even without the Venomthrope and Tervigon (it's acceptable that they're used for something else, but given the situation you made, they'll probably be concentrated on the fexes to keep them alive) they're still worth a whopping 705, which is still prohibitively expensive, for any army. Three bare naked Fexes can probably do it, solely because their cost is a meager 480, much more feastable for normal games, but at that cost, you're paying 80 points more for the strength increase (and initaitive decrease) than if you just got 2 Trygons (which bring the same amount of attacks and wounds to the game, while having the initative perk and ranged weapon). If you want an anti-tank job done, go with Hive Guards. They can pop Rhinos much easier than the fexes. Got a Raider looking you down? Zoanthrope. Three Zoanthropes cost less than a single fex in this case (and just 20 points more than a naked one) while being able to bring 3 S10 AP1 Lance shots to bear, with BS4 no less. When both are done with their vehicle hunting, the Hive Guard can snipe HQ characters due to it's S8 weapon, while the Zoanthrope has a MEQ killer blast weapon.

Cheaper equipped carnifexes I feel still have a place on the battlefield. They used to be crazily awesome and a lot of people still remember that and like to go for them as a priority target. Quite useful to use 2 or 3 of them on a flank set up for melee. Either they enemy ignore them and they get to do some damage or they draw fire whilst the rest of the swarm are left to advance a bit more unscathed.

I take a brood of 3 dakkafexes occasionally. It's just too fun throwing 36 twin linked S6 shots at something.

I'm never gonna knock someone for taking a wonky off-the-wall unit for giggles. It's always fun to spice the game up with crazy stuff. Just as long as people don't try to go on long winded rants of justification for a second rate unit and completely ignore the things that are flat out better. The Carnifex had his day, this day is no longer it. Blame GW.

Nurglitch wrote: I've wondered about Regeneration. The Carnifex Brood isn't complex, but being able to save the odd wound gives it a third saving throw along with the official ones and Feel No Pain (officially just a roll). While it won't work for every 4th wound, the other three work nicely to soak up the save small arms fire and stray shots that seeps through a 3+ save. It's a wonderful way to absorb firepower. It's something of a Sv2.5+. Still 75pts...

Nurglitch wrote:
As I've pointed out, Regeneration will confer more protection to a Carnifex brood than a single creature.

I don't think your analysis of regen on the 3 fex brood holds up. With no way to spread wounds around amongst the fexes, you only ever get to roll regen on one model in the brood. If 5 missiles from Long Fangs all hit and wound a brood, then you'll lose one fex and take a single wound on a second fex. You get to roll one die for the one wound on the second fex. You'll never get to roll for the 4 wounds lost by the first fex. If the brood starts the round down 2 wounds and the enemy only does 2 wounds then you've got the same situation again where regen is negated. If the fexes could make a complex brood regeneration would be a sound investment. As it is 75 points is much to expensive for something you probably won't get any use out of.

Regeneration makes more sense on a lone fex when joined by a prime with regen too because you can spread the wounds around and get regen rolls on both models.

I think there is only one way to play with carnifexes and that is in broods of three. The hero of most of my games with the Tyranids have been the unit of three with 2x devourers. Add a tervigon with Onslaught and the carnies can still move forward at their best rate to gain Hth when needed, and still shoot at the enemy. It is an expensive unit (570), but I find it difficult for people to deal with then while everything else in your army moves forward that they wish to kill. I have liked their play so much I am looking at a new version of Nidzilla. 6 carnies, 3 tervigons, and hive guard to round out the points. The new DE might not have a bad time with 40+ T6 wounds because of poison, but I hope to overload other armies.

So, I think carnies are good if you are willing to pay for the one advantage they have over the other heavy slot units and that is being able to take them in groups.

I run a unit of 3, each with 2 scything talons. It’s a very valuable unit which forces my opponent into making a strategic decision that ultimately determines the outcome of the game. Either my opponent ignores the carnefex brood and focuses on the rest of my army or focuses on my carnefex brood and ignores the rest of my army. Either way, it puts me in a position to adjust my tactics to suit my opponents play which gives me a huge advantage.

I haven’t played my Tyranid army hundreds of times like I have my Eldar but I’ve only every lost once with my Nids to a Spacewolf player with Jaws. Carnefexes are nasty nasty nasty and because they’re a brood you can multiple assault and bring the pain and humiliation to multiple units.

I agree with many of the above posters who say the best way to play them is in a brood of 3. Individually they simply aren’t the threat they need to be from a strategic perspective.

Carnifex's have been reduced to a shadow of their former glory. Virtually anything that they can do, something else can do better. The one notable exception is dealing with enemies in cover. Their ability to access assault grenades means that, with Adrenal Glands, they hit before or simultaniously to most enemies in cover, something no other decent Tyranid unit can boast. They also cost less than other heavy support beasts.

They indeed got a tad nerfed with the new Dex'