Should Chaos SM and Deamons be re-amalgumated??

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**Son_Of _Deddog**

????? Do you think Deamons should be re-introduced into the next CSM codex, or are they fine as a seperate army??

**Ribon Fox**

No

You would have more hope that the Squats make a come back worthy of Lazarus than GW recombining the two codecis again.

To them we are nothing more than walking sheep traped in a never endding spell of plastic, glue and paint...They say "Buy!" and we say "How much?"...or baaarr...

**romulus571**

Maybe they should have an allies rule... sort of like how you can use IG, SM, DH, and WH in certain combinations. Part of what ruined CSM for me was the inability to field anything besides generic daemons.

That said, I don't think the codices will be recombined any time soon.

**Brotherjulian**

Should never have been separated. Burn the codex daemons and the 4th ed codex CSM, go back to 3.5

**Lord of battles**

I like what they did in codex chaos daemons but not what they did in codex chaos space marines, i don't think they should be recombined but allies rules should exist.

**Kurgash**

Keep the books separate but allow some options from daemons into chaos marines, like troops and greater daemons, maybe allow trading of one kind of FOC choice that must be brought in through a special summoning icon.

**Da Boss**

The next chaos space marine codex will be interesting, that's all I know. If they keep the "generic daemons" thing going, they'll have to DO something with it. Currently it's a bit...odd.

**Samus_aran115**

Yeah, it won't happen :(

Too bad. I really liked taking bloodthirsters in a CSM army!

**Crazy_Carnifex**

Should they? Yes.

Will They? No.

**Bastion of Mediocrity**

The inclusion of deamons is why CSM were my first 40K army. I think they SHOULD be intergrated.

However I also enjoy having a separated daemon army list. I would like the base daemons and the greater daemon options to return to the CSM codex, but keep some of the other options for daemons for a daemon-only list.

Of course, since I like themed lists and play WFB as well, I would love more daemon units as a general princle. Would help to keep CSM armies and daemon armies looking different as well.

**Brother Heinrich**

I don't think they should be re-combined, however I would say that the C:CSM should get back the ability to take specific summoned demons again. You'd think that those doing the summoning would perform the proper rituals to summon whatever God's minions they wanted to.

**Bloodfrenzy187**

The Daemon codex is kinda crap. Combine the two again.

**kizzdougs**

I think that CSM armies should be able to take specific daemon units but only the ones that were available in 3.5, ie. no Blood Crushers, fiends, heralds, soul grinders etc.

At the very least Lesser Daemons need more flavour. Maybe we should have the option of giving them a mark of chaos. That way Codex Daemons remains a separate and characterful army and us chaos marine players are able to theme our forces a bit more.

**H.B.M.C.**

Son_Of _Deddog wrote:????? Do you think Deamons should be re-introduced into the next CSM codex, or are they fine as a seperate army??

I don't mind having Daemons as a separate army - I think the Daemon Codex is the most unnecessary Codex out there, but if it must exist then fine - but I don't like having a Chaos Codex with no Daemons in it.

Might as well not be Chaos then...

And while they're at it they can fix the Daemon Codex so that it makes logical sense - ie. you're fighting against a Daemonic Infestation with your own army, not "My army is on this field of battle completely alone and HOLY gak DAEMONS EVERYWHERE!". The whole army being summoned thing is just daft.

**MechaEmperor7000**

They should be combined into one "Forces of Chaos" armybook, with Greater Daemons and Heralds unlocking Daemons as compulsory Troop Choices. Alternatively, return the Allies system and bring back Lost and the Damned.

Personally I wanna see the full spectrum of chaos represented in-game, not just Spiky marines (I wanna see the true Chaos Legions) and Daemons (there are potential for so much more than just the haphazard book we got right now).

**Bromsy**

I would love to have daemons with any sort of character, customization or utility. Is that going to happen? I'd bet dollars to donuts that there won't even be daemons in the next CSM codex.

**Zip Napalm**

Yes, but GW won't.

Another Codex: Eye of Terror will never happen either.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Well the Black Templars "graduated" from the Armageddon codex, so there is a small (really, really small, almost monomolecular in size) chance that they will reintroduce Lost and the Damned.

**Aspiring Champion**

A part of me likes the idea of a separate Chaos Daemons army. Another large part mourns the loss of real daemons from C:CSM. The rest of me wonders if i should look at other army choices.

**Ouze**

I'm a relatively new Chaos player (in that I have yet to actually field them, but I have played teams with a friend) and was surprised and sort of disappointed how few options you have as far as Daemons go. My friend also plays daemons only, and they probably should exist on their own as they do have a relatively fleshed out book, but I'd like to see some more options for CSM too.

**Vaktathi**

Personally, I'm not sure whether or not the initial separation was a good or a bad thing, and likewise reintegration. However I don't like the way the Daemon army works at all (far too variable, too much out of the control of the player, etc) and C:CSM just lost its soul. Now, I think these issues could be remedied without reintegration, but I also don't think that reintegration would be a terrible thing depending on the way it was done.

**Maurin**

They either need to reintegrate or really flesh each one out a lot in the next update. Chaos marines feel like Space Marines lite and Daemons feel pretty bareboned to me

**Footsloggin**

I just started Daemons, and, I would like to say that Chaos Space Marines really do need SOME of these units. The purpose being that their army has very few varied units, and Daemons would add that needed flavor and variety that they need.

Do I think they need to be reamalgamated? (From my VERY biased stand-point), no.

However, doing so would free up time to do other codices, which would benefit the community as a whole giving everyone a nice codex before the next edition to question/counter.

**Lint**

I think Deamons deserve their own codex, but the current 'dex feels slapdash. It would make more sense if they used traitor guard/cultist to summon, rather than the whole reserve mess that they have now.

For C:CSM I think if they had better options for possesion it would be a better representation of daemonic pacts within the legions. Before actual daemon units are reintegrated, it'd be much nicer to have some legion specific rules for CSM.

**Perkustin**

Customisable lesser demons. Strong, tough, warpfire, fast etc. And Greater Demons as they are in the demon codex but summonable. I think as long as codex demons still has all the HS, FA, Elite and Unique demons they still maintain their own flavour.

**MechaEmperor7000**

There should be a generic Lesser Daemon and Greater Daemon generator, kinda like the generic SM and Commander, alongside the God-specific Daemons. I long for the day where I can use the Vampire Varghulf as a GD while Furies as the Lesser Daemons without resorting to "count as" to represent the former, and have the latter be actually useful.

Personally I still think they should be combined into one Forces of Chaos book and not go the route of Space Marines. This way I can choose to field either an all Daemon Force, a tactically sound Mono-god force, a Chaos Space Marine Force, a true Daemonbomb Word Bearers force, or any combination thereof. It would be a step in the right direction in returning Chaos to it's former glory.

**Lucid**

I feel that they made the Daemons codex because they were trying to make deepstriking more viable in 5th ed.

From a fluff standpoint I'd rather have 5 Chaos codecies, One for each god and valnilla (or chocolate as i'd like to call them) CSM. I really dislike the idea of all these CSM's who worshop different gods being buddy buddy. They'd fight eachother just as soon as the imperium. Then as far as gamplay goes, you get your standard marine with a buff depending on the god, and a lot of standardized equipment, but use the Daemons to really seperate the armies' style.

Greater daemons allow you to take lesser daemons as troops, and they all deepstrike. so you could have from each codex; meq armies, daemon armies, or combine them.

This way you can use that deepstrike and only risk half or all of your army depending on your prefference.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Ideally there should be one book for each of the Chaos Legions (with Black Legion standing as the "generic" CSM), one for Lost and the Damned, one for each God's Daemons (with Allies rule to allow them to join other Daemons and CSM), as well as one codex for each of the founding legions (except the Ultras, as they are the vanilla marines), a codex for Cadians, Catachans, Valhallans, Vostroyians, and Tallarns.

On the Xenos side, there should be at least a Kult of Speed Codex for Orks, Goffs, and a mek Boyz army in addition to the base orks. Eldar should also see the return of Craftworlds and an Exodite Army. Tau should get Farsight Enclaves as a separate army too.

However with all those books, we're gonna be pushing 80 by the time they finish updating all of them. To make the game feasable, they should return Chaos to it's 3.5 roots with the Books of Chaos, just make all-daemon armies actually useable with a special unlock or something (such as giving GDs a special bit of equipment called Daemonic Assault or something that lets them come into play without possessing a marine). I would also like to see Lost and the Damned Elements combined into the next Chaos Book. While it will immensely unbalance the game without great work (this would effectively mean CSM have access to guard stuff, which would make them vastly superior to vanilla marines in terms of choices and stuff) it would be an awesome sight to behold.

**Jayden63**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Son_Of _Deddog wrote:????? Do you think Deamons should be re-introduced into the next CSM codex, or are they fine as a seperate army??

I don't mind having Daemons as a separate army - I think the Daemon Codex is the most unnecessary Codex out there, but if it must exist then fine - but I don't like having a Chaos Codex with no Daemons in it.

Might as well not be Chaos then...

And while they're at it they can fix the Daemon Codex so that it makes logical sense - ie. you're fighting against a Daemonic Infestation with your own army, not "My army is on this field of battle completely alone and HOLY gak DAEMONS EVERYWHERE!". The whole army being summoned thing is just daft.

This is the issue I have with deamon armies. There is no reason ever for deamons to leave the warp. Why should they? They are not conquerors, they are not pilgrims. They don't need sustenance, technology, or wealth.

Deamons are warp entities that get ripped out of their comfort zones and forced into servitude by a powerful sorcerer. Chaos is now once again Chaos, not just naughty spiky marines.

Yes Chaos should have access back to the basic characterful deamons. Its what helped define the different chaos forces. I also agree however, that they shouldn't have access to harolds, charriots, soul grinders, etc. Just named entries that actually function differently to help give Chaos back some flavor.

**MechaEmperor7000**

what surprised me was the inclusion of Chariots. While I can understand the access to stuff like Banners, Musicians and champions (to make the most use of the stuff they give you so people wont complain they're paying money for items they cant use) and heralds (to give a cheaper HQ alternative to the GDs), the inclusion of chariots seems to hint that GW, on some level, wanted Daemons to be interchangable through the game systems. Everything, with the exception of the Soul Grinder, can be used in the other game system simply by mounting them on a square base, and Chariots seem to be upgraded versions of their respective mounts (which they could have easily just made stronger mounts or just upgraded the existing mounts). However GW is pretty blunt about their stance on cross-system armies, so it's kinda weird in my eyes.