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Tombworlds in old fluff had air.

Hox is getting planets that the necrons have purged of life and tombworlds (where necrons are sleeping) confused.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I don't mind the concept of the Tyranids avoiding dead worlds that hold nothing but the inorganic tombs of sleeping Necrons. How is that a silly concept? What do the Tyranids gain by invading a world with no biomass and having to fight a war against completely inorganic foes?

Hidden tombs on worlds that have since gone on to become other things (verdant jungle worlds, big hive worlds, worlds with massive oceans, Ork worlds, etc.) - that's fine. But the dead Tomb Worlds, no, Tyranids should be avoiding them.

Maybe we're having a disconnect between the old and new fluff versus the term 'Tomb World'.

'Tomb Worlds' in the new fluff are simply worlds where Necrons went into hibernation on. However, after 60 million years if any of these worlds had ANY atmosphere and life on them before they went into hibernation then they would be literally teeming with life when the Tyranids arrive. So with the new fluff there is one Empire who had its worlds devastated by a Tyranid Hive Fleet (among other things) while it slept and now the remainder of its Necrons are spread out and not unified like other Necron Empires.

But getting back to the 'old' fluff, I never saw any indication that Necrons wiped out every single bit of life on their worlds anytime they were awake, but maybe someone can point me to a reference to clue me in.

Whats up with the fake codex page? http://www.giftsforgeeks.org.uk/p/product/771199020-Codex%2520Necrons%25202011/

Didn't you just answer your own question?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the new Necron Codex for all of the interesting 'counts as' opportunities it (may) offer!

I have been looking through page after page because I thought it was figured out mathwise or something, but was it ever figured out what one is better , warriors or immortals? Just trying to see what I should focus on and buy

Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

tetrisphreak wrote:Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

Right, there's literally no reason to take squads of 10 immortals when you have empty slots. 5 and 5 for target splitting and cover works so much better.

I want to see how feasible it will be to set up ghost arks to be disembarked immediately on turn 1, and boarded by immortals.

Ostrakon wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

Right, there's literally no reason to take squads of 10 immortals when you have empty slots. 5 and 5 for target splitting and cover works so much better.

I want to see how feasible it will be to set up ghost arks to be disembarked immediately on turn 1, and boarded by immortals.

Very feasable. Just do it. But why would you? The Ghost Ark doesn't reaminate Immortals, so you'd be better off keeping the Warriors nearby the Ghost Ark instead. And if you equip the Immortals with the Assault 1 Tesla weapons, you can just take the Cryptek with Veil of Darkness and teleport the Immortals to the same destination.

Ostrakon wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

Right, there's literally no reason to take squads of 10 immortals when you have empty slots. 5 and 5 for target splitting and cover works so much better.

I want to see how feasible it will be to set up ghost arks to be disembarked immediately on turn 1, and boarded by immortals.

I thought ghost arks could only be embarked and disembarked by warriors. Maybe that was my interpretation of what yak said, and that ghosts can only be dedicated to warriors. Now that I typed this, the latter seems to be more likely...

If Ghost arks could regenerate immortals there would be absolutely no reason to take warriors at all, except the minimum necessary to get the Ghost ark.

I'm all for Tyranids fighting Necrons. I agree they should avoid completely lifeless worlds, and the new fluff seems to suggest they do. But with a little creativity it isn't too hard to come up for a reason why they would fight.

For example, perhaps an alien species that seems like a prime candidate for the bio-transfer is about to get om nommed. I think thats a neat scenario because no matter who wins that species still loses.

I just dont see a reason to needlessely limit fluffy player interactions bewteen Necrons and Tyranids.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm wondering, does phase out and other forms of mass teleportation still exist fluffwise? Do Necrons simply vanish after they've taken a beating?

And for something completley different: is it just me or does Imotekh look like he's leaning really far back at a weird angle? Might just be the pic.

Thanks for the info guys. Seems atleast warriors are a bit better now as there is no Night Scythe model out yet to even transport the immortals

corpsesarefun wrote:Tombworlds in old fluff had air.

Hox is getting planets that the necrons have purged of life and tombworlds (where necrons are sleeping) confused.

False. P33 Necron Codex

Several unexplained anomalies on the planet of Angelis.

1. The planets eco-sphere appears to be deteriorating for no apparent reason. Despite having a favorable oxygen/nitrogen rich atmosphere and low levels of background radiation, there are no signs of life. Not even on a micro-organic scale.

2. A group of formations of apparently unnatural origin.

3. An energy source issuing some sort of beacon from the area around the unnatural formations which remains indecipherable.

It goes on to talk about the ANCIENT PYRAMIDS EXISTING ON THE PLANET

P50

Greggor had travelled to the remote system of blah blah in search of an ancient civilization. They expected to find a fertile, wooded world populated by simple, pastoral people called the silvac.

When Greggors ship had arrived, he had found a completely dead world.

Yadda yadda

(Further down page) I request I be given time to study them. To determine why and how the evident ecological collapse occured and why an entire species died out in less than a thousand years.

It looks like the silvac lived on a tomb world and worshiped the necrons as gods. Then the necrons woke up and murdered everything on the planet.

There is more I'm sure and I shall continue to find/add/edit

Edit 1: Just reading almost any story had the word DEAD next to every single world. When the IoM data lists life forms on the tomb worlds it is always absolutely none of any kind.

Edit 2:

P4 of Necron Codex:

"Another example is the reports of hundreds of tombworlds discovered by the Explorators of the Adeptus Mechanicus over the millennia. Most lie at the far edges of the galaxy, dead worlds where ranks of ancient, cyclopean structures bear testimony to aeons-past glories of long dead races..... Some whisper that these worlds are far from dead, that their ageless inhabitants are sleeping away endless millennia in hidden stasis."

Says they may be alive because of necrons, meaning nothing else exists on the planets.

Edit 3: P6/7

"NAOGEDDEN IS A DEAD WORLD"
"0% PRECIPITATION"
"LIFEFORMS:
AUTOCHTHONIC: NONE
INTRODUCED: NONE"

Talks about giant triangles on the planet.

The example of the Silvac is a silly one to use, as they had apparently displeased their masters and were exterminated because of it.

azazel the cat wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

Right, there's literally no reason to take squads of 10 immortals when you have empty slots. 5 and 5 for target splitting and cover works so much better.

I want to see how feasible it will be to set up ghost arks to be disembarked immediately on turn 1, and boarded by immortals.

Very feasable. Just do it. But why would you? The Ghost Ark doesn't reaminate Immortals, so you'd be better off keeping the Warriors nearby the Ghost Ark instead. And if you equip the Immortals with the Assault 1 Tesla weapons, you can just take the Cryptek with Veil of Darkness and teleport the Immortals to the same destination.

Ah, but why would I need to regenerate embarked warriors? It's not like they'll be taking casualties.

Kanluwen wrote:The example of the Silvac is a silly one to use, as they had apparently displeased their masters and were exterminated because of it.

I would agree except that it says the necrons killed everything. From the silvac to the plant life on the planet, it was 100% lifeless. If I'm pissed at you I might shoot you. I'm not going to walk around your house shooting all your potted plants. Necrons are not pro life.

I'm just wondering what the new min/max units are going to be. Grey Knights have Psyfledreds, Dark Eldar have Venoms, SW's have ling fangs, etc.

I'm thinking Monoliths. Although they will lose a lot of survivability, armor 14 is still a tough nut to crack. And you can get this for much cheaper than other armies too, while the table board teleportation can really give you some powerful gameplay options, and can easily refuse flank on a unsuspecting opponent.


However as I look at the rumors, I don't see reliable anti-tank options. Maybe this is in mind for 6th edition, but glancing on a 6 is great, but tank suppression can only get you so far. Other armies excel by having cheap ways to fit lots of special weapons, such as Long Fangs or Veterans, but I don't see Necron troops of having anyway to do that, unless they get a Warscythe with a Necron Lord in there.

From what's been leaked, I feel like it's going to be a mono-build with the Stormlord. Not for his STR 8, but by forcing the enemy to get close to the necrons. This will shut down gun line armies and force them to get close, because they can tear units to shreds in a giant mass of rapid fire weapons. This will also allow the player to focus on repelling CC armies, through use of Lychguard and Wraiths. I see Preatorians being that one unit that could good, there are just better options that could be taken. Scarabs also seem really cool, but with the drop to Beasts, I think most players will have a difficult time getting them to that enemy vehicle. That 2+ cover save for turbo-boosting made scarabs what they are. But all I see are failed fleet rolls and disappointingly accurate blast templates.

Lastly tomb spyders could be a hidden gem, providing a multitude or army wide effects for the player. If it can join squads, they could help weaken psychic powers, spawning units, and repairing vehicles. They could even do a lot more too, depending on how powerful these particle weapons turn out, if it's still a MC. That lash whip like upgrade could also be a powerful boost allowing even basic warriors to swing 1st. This could all be overblown, but even then adding 3 wounds to a squad for less points than they are now sounds very nice. And if someone were to have a power squad, not only would those 3 wounds be great for wound allocation, but that psychic defense could mess some armies up.(What's that Doom/JOTWW/Weaken Resolve/Cleansing Flames?)



This is all speculation, and this could turn out to be completely wrong however....

tl:dr
Stormlord
MSU Immortals
Monoliths
(Tomb Spyders?)

I'm thinking that the Stormlord army will only be a favorable build until the new Tau are released and every model has a blacksun filter which allows them to ignore night fight entirely...

Hox wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The example of the Silvac is a silly one to use, as they had apparently displeased their masters and were exterminated because of it.

I would agree except that it says the necrons killed everything. From the silvac to the plant life on the planet, it was 100% lifeless. If I'm pissed at you I might shoot you. I'm not going to walk around your house shooting all your potted plants. Necrons are not pro life.

And if I'm angered at you for not worshiping me as you should, I will not simply kill you. I will scour the land, completely, and salt the earth afterwards rendering it completely uninhabitable and forcing you and your kin to die in the most painful and slow manner possible to show you why you should not worship me out of love--but out of fear.

It's not really comparable to simply say that it was a case of the Necrontyr and the C'Tan they obeyed "being pissed". Think of some of the Old Testament stuff. The killing of the firstborn sons, the plagues, etc.

I have a question for those in the know: Can any Ghost Ark regenrate a unit of Warriors? I assume it's one unit that gets the D3, but is it only the unit of Warriors that bought the transport?

If any Ark could regenerate then having some Warriors sandwiched or surrounded by a few Arks could be quite interesting. And if an Ark regenerated ALL Warrior units near it, that would be boss.

Kanluwen wrote:

Hox wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The example of the Silvac is a silly one to use, as they had apparently displeased their masters and were exterminated because of it.

I would agree except that it says the necrons killed everything. From the silvac to the plant life on the planet, it was 100% lifeless. If I'm pissed at you I might shoot you. I'm not going to walk around your house shooting all your potted plants. Necrons are not pro life.

And if I'm angered at you for not worshiping me as you should, I will not simply kill you. I will scour the land, completely, and salt the earth afterwards rendering it completely uninhabitable and forcing you and your kin to die in the most painful and slow manner possible to show you why you should not worship me out of love--but out of fear.

It's not really comparable to simply say that it was a case of the Necrontyr and the C'Tan they obeyed "being pissed". Think of some of the Old Testament stuff. The killing of the firstborn sons, the plagues, etc.

Well isnt someone here a sick puppy. If this was the only sign that the necrons wiped worlds clean than it wouldnt be for sure but it is clear in almost every story and every description, the tomb worlds have no existing life on them once the metal gods roll out of bed.

But again, you're focusing on the Imperial designation of a Tomb World.

Not every world with a tomb on it is a Tomb World.

Anyone have a plan for dealing with units that have Invulnerable saves?
I mean, a drive-by with a Monolith and making them take a strength test...
Running the numbers (which is always dangerous for me) even a full squad of Heavy Destroyers are only expected to take out 2 normal Termies a round of shooting... and that isn't the TH/SS variety.
Do we have and CC options that can stand toe-to-toe?

Kanluwen wrote:But again, you're focusing on the Imperial designation of a Tomb World.

Not every world with a tomb on it is a Tomb World.

Pretty sure you just said not every world with a tomb on it is a tomb world. I want you to sit for a second and think about what you just said.

Anpu-adom wrote:Anyone have a plan for dealing with units that have Invulnerable saves?
I mean, a drive-by with a Monolith and making them take a strength test...
Running the numbers (which is always dangerous for me) even a full squad of Heavy Destroyers are only expected to take out 2 normal Termies a round of shooting... and that isn't the TH/SS variety.
Do we have and CC options that can stand toe-to-toe?

Yeah, massed gauss fire. We now have the ability to actually dish out a ton of shots (or at least, a significant amount more). It's a pain that we can't cut through invuln saves any more, but the more wounds we dish out, the more they're going to fail.

Hox wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:But again, you're focusing on the Imperial designation of a Tomb World.

Not every world with a tomb on it is a Tomb World.

Pretty sure you just said not every world with a tomb on it is a tomb world. I want you to sit for a second and think about what you just said.

I want you to sit for a second and think about the fact that you missed the key part.

Imperial designations for Tomb Worlds are not necessarily what we as omniscient observers are going to classify as Tomb Worlds.

We know that Tomb Worlds are worlds which have a Necron tomb upon them, and have had them for millions of years slumbering beneath the feet of civilizations. The Imperium, however, does not realize that unless they find architecture or relics which point towards there having been a Necron presence beforehand.

It's important to realize the distinction between what 'we' know and what 'the Imperium' knows.

Kanluwen wrote:

Hox wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:But again, you're focusing on the Imperial designation of a Tomb World.

Not every world with a tomb on it is a Tomb World.

Pretty sure you just said not every world with a tomb on it is a tomb world. I want you to sit for a second and think about what you just said.

I want you to sit for a second and think about the fact that you missed the key part.

Imperial designations for Tomb Worlds are not necessarily what we as omniscient observers are going to classify as Tomb Worlds.

We know that Tomb Worlds are worlds which have a Necron tomb upon them, and have had them for millions of years slumbering beneath the feet of civilizations. The Imperium, however, does not realize that unless they find architecture or relics which point towards there having been a Necron presence beforehand.

It's important to realize the distinction between what 'we' know and what 'the Imperium' knows.

Heres how I do math. Tombworld is equal to Tomb+World.

Every single time in the codex one of these tomb worlds are encountered and the IoM gets inside the buildings, people die. I just read through the codex like 15 minutes ago. It honestly seems like you haven't read it. Can you show me an example of this thought process played out in the only book we have to extrapolate data from? I put a bunch of points up explaining my thought process, you do the same.

Tombworld
Tombhiveworld
Tombdeathworld
Tombagriworld
Tombforgeworld

TombCANDYworld, HAPPY HAllowe... Oh, to early for that.

Ostrakon wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

Right, there's literally no reason to take squads of 10 immortals when you have empty slots. 5 and 5 for target splitting and cover works so much better.

I want to see how feasible it will be to set up ghost arks to be disembarked immediately on turn 1, and boarded by immortals.

Very feasable. Just do it. But why would you? The Ghost Ark doesn't reaminate Immortals, so you'd be better off keeping the Warriors nearby the Ghost Ark instead. And if you equip the Immortals with the Assault 1 Tesla weapons, you can just take the Cryptek with Veil of Darkness and teleport the Immortals to the same destination.

Ah, but why would I need to regenerate embarked warriors? It's not like they'll be taking casualties.

I just assumed that upon arriving at your destination, the troops would disembark. Otherwise, what good are they?

azazel the cat wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:

Ostrakon wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote:Immortals are better as MSU squads - their better armor save makes them more resilient.

Warriors are better as more horde-squads (units of 11+ models) - they will stand up to firepower longer and have more return fire since they're carrying more guns.

I think a good mix of both (utilizing night scythes and ghost arks) will be seen in lists, both casual and tournament style alike.

Right, there's literally no reason to take squads of 10 immortals when you have empty slots. 5 and 5 for target splitting and cover works so much better.

I want to see how feasible it will be to set up ghost arks to be disembarked immediately on turn 1, and boarded by immortals.

Very feasable. Just do it. But why would you? The Ghost Ark doesn't reaminate Immortals, so you'd be better off keeping the Warriors nearby the Ghost Ark instead. And if you equip the Immortals with the Assault 1 Tesla weapons, you can just take the Cryptek with Veil of Darkness and teleport the Immortals to the same destination.

Ah, but why would I need to regenerate embarked warriors? It's not like they'll be taking casualties.

I just assumed that upon arriving at your destination, the troops would disembark. Otherwise, what good are they?

Open-topped vehicle, my friend. They can fire away from within the comparative safety of the ark.