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Greetings, me again with another question. This time it's about the independent characters in the IG. I'll list them down here to save time. Actually, if I'm listing them, I might aswell dump a few of my opinions (despite never fielding any of them muahahaha )


Creed 90
A whopping four orders, 24" range, and fearless furious charge order. Definitely a fine choice. After all, he is a tactical ge-... Oh wait, I have to do it now
CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED

Kell 85
He costs as much as 17 vox casters.

Pask 50
Powerful, but isn't he too easy to kill?

Bastonne 60
I don't get the point of this guy. He can only join vets, costs a whopping 60 points, has one wound. This guy pretty much always regroups his team on ld10, but you can do that with orders, and a lord commissar only costs 20 points more, while having a bubble, stubborn and rerolls.
I think of him as a single sergeant who costs as much as a full 10-man squad of infantry.

Straken 95
Looks great on paper. His stats represent those of a marine hero with WS5, S6, T4, A3 and an incredible 3+ save. He fights with his metal arm which is in fact a S6 power weapon with 2d6 armour pen.
He also shouts orders and gives a 12" furios charge + counter attack bubble.
PS: He has +1 attack for his plasma pistol, which is also good at shooting

My guess is that this guy is pure power for the right armies.

Marbo 65
Okay, I have fielded this guy. Pops out of nowhere, ID's some termies/nobs and then dies. Good stuff
In the unlikely situation of him surviving, he is a WS5 BS5 I5 guy with a 2+ poisoned AP2 pistol and 2+ poison knife with 5 base attacks. Also: fearless, fleet, move through cover, stealth, hit and run, all types of grenades

Harker 55
He looks really fun. Infiltrating move through vets cover with a relentless HB and a non-armour doctrine. Is he as good as he looks?

Yarrick 185
Looks more like an APOC kind of character. I don't know what to say about this guy, other than that he costs A LOT.

Al'Rahem 70
One of my favourites. You can have 60 men coming from the side of the board with an order that gives them 'fleet'. I am definitely going to use him

Chenkov 50
Meh

Mogul Kamir 40
I'd rather have +4 rough riders. The lances still hit at S5 AFAIK


Nork Deddog 110
The ultimate bodyguard. But is he worth the points?

You might get dinged for posting points costs. Not sure. Subscribed none-the-less.

The only one of these that is an IC is Yarrick.

Anyhow, Kell isn't good because he lets you give orders better to guardsmen, he's good because he lets you give orders better to HW teams, who can't have a vox caster and who have a bad Ld.

That is a list of special characters. Of the chracters listed only one is an independent character.

Mastermind wrote:Kell 85
He costs as much as 17 vox casters.

Lol. And that's that.

I agree that Al'Rahem and Marbo are worth taking. Because Straken gives buffs, I can see him actually being useful, but only in certain armies.

The rest are too expensive for what they're likely to achieve. Yes, I include Creed in this. The things Creed wants to give orders to can't take voxes, and giving scouts to only one unit is situational at the absolute best. In brief, he's not the force multiplier that Al'Rahem or Straken are. A couple more orders really isn't worth the hefty price tag.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:The only one of these that is an IC is Yarrick.

Whoops, my bad. I hope it still gets the idea across, though

Marbo is it for me, atm.

I agree that Creed, Straken, and Al-rahem would all be good in the right army. Marbo is good too, he doesn't really depend on any other strategies and is just a throwaway weapon.

Pask, Harker whenever people talk about using them it's always some rather inefficient, bloated unit that could be useful but isn't necessarily the ideal choice.

Bastonne, Mogul Kamir, Nork Deddog are all overpriced rubbish IMO. Kamir especially gives your riders the rage USR, the absolute worst thing for them! And his good USR, furious charge, doesn't stack with hunting lances!

Chenkov I wish was a bit better, as he's very cool. Ultimately though the orders aren't worth the points, the combat ability isn't worth the points in such a small squad either. The stubborn bubble is good, but realistically if you want stubborn platoons you will be using commissars instead, they are far less vulnerable and grant re-rolls!

IMHO, Marbo is the only one worth taking in every list. If you have a few extra points, being able to place a demo charge anywhere you want it is pretty great. He usually doesn't live long, but if he takes any amount of fire then he is worthwhile as a distraction. He has stealth, so if you put him in cover and have him go to ground at the first chance of trouble, there's a good chance he'll take a fair amount of shooting to kill.

Straken and Al'Rahem, are very list dependent.


I've seen Straken do some pretty murderous things in conjunction with assault oriented IG.

Al'Rahem is nice, but it depends on the list you're going for. Allot of times IG depends on being able to hit hard before the enemy can make it to their lines, if you have to wait a turn or two for an entire platoon to show up, it can put a major damper on the amount of firepower you can put out.




Creed and Kell are great for giving orders to static HWS. But they can be a major point sink. For the pair they cost 175, which can buy another two HWS armed with anything and still have some points left over. There's also the major drawback of having, bare minimum, 225 points in a tiny fragile CCS.

I've never seen the point of Bastone. He costs more then a Chimera.

I usually run 1500pt games so Yarrick, while cool is usually out of my price range.

The only upside of Chenckov is that he lets you take conscripts with Send In the Next wave. Which costs too much to really be effective, so meh.

If the rulings regarding Mugol Kamir are right, then you're paying extra for something that ends up hurting your squad.

Nork is even worse. For 110 points he's an ungodly point sink. For 20 more points you could have a Squad of Ogryn, or two Chimeras, or any number of things which would probably provide a much better meatshield.

I've experimented a little with Creed, Al'Rahem, and Straken.

Creed- 4 orders a turn is pretty beast, and the range insures you can plunk him behind some rocks the whole game and yell at things the whole time. Not my cup of tea though.

Al'Rahem- he seems good until people wise up and deploy in the center. I love him, but he's just a little gimmicky.

Straken- My personal favorite. His buffs aren't orders (which I sometimes have trouble remembering) so he favors my style of list a little more than Creed. Also his CCS can be used to help bail a squad out of combat if necessary, something Creed has trouble with. Also he is just way cool.

A friend of mine uses Straken with some pretty terrifying results. The key is to ALWAYS get the charge. Counter-attack is nice, but its nothing compared to Furious Charge. Also, Creed's 'For the Honour of Cadia' isn't all that great, because Fearless is worse than Stubborn. Marbo is awesome, and I've used Al'Rahem with satisfying results. The rest aren't worth taking in my opinion.

Blacksails wrote:A friend of mine uses Straken with some pretty terrifying results. The key is to ALWAYS get the charge. Counter-attack is nice, but its nothing compared to Furious Charge. Also, Creed's 'For the Honour of Cadia' isn't all that great, because Fearless is worse than Stubborn. Marbo is awesome, and I've used Al'Rahem with satisfying results. The rest aren't worth taking in my opinion.

Agreed, Straken is killier than most space marines, and make guard hit as harder than they should.

Nobody likes Al'Rahem bringing an entire platoon with him.

Marbo - "Yes". Always. Choice of placement and highly accurate Large Blast. Just count on him eating a LOT of retaliatory fire, so plan on losing his KP.
Straken - In the right environment ( blob squads in list ), "yes".
Harker - Conditional "yes". Outflanking/Infiltrating vets w Special weapons can be a royal PITA.
Creed - Situational. Comes to his own in high point games.
Kell - See above.
Pask - "No". Do not get one expensive tank but two medium prized instead.
Bastonne - "No". Get more bodies instead.
Chenkov - "No". Conscripts are garbage. Recyclable garbage but still garbage.
Mogul Kamir - "No". You are paying points for nothing. He makes the unit worse not better.
Yarrick - "No". He belongs to Apocalypse/Planetstrike.
Nork - "No". Let me emphasize for effect "NO"!

Bastonne is awesome if used in a Vet squad that is going to alpha strike a tank that you really need dead. Three meltaguns usually ensures a kill, three meltaguns on a squad that can issue BiD on itself pretty much guarantees a kill. As the Vets are alpha striking (normally in Vendettas) this is really the only way to give them a BiD order, as they're 99% of the time going to be out of range of a CCS. It makes the sacrificial squad more expensive, yes, but if you just took out a 250pt Land Raider with Abaddon and 4 x Chaos Terminators inside it was probably very much worth it!

Kell is the only character in the IG codex that allows squads to test on the Officers leadership. 17 voxcasters he may cost, but combine him with a gunline force that has a heavy reliance on HWTs and you'll be twin-linked a LOT more often that normal.

Pask I don't really find a use for. 1" less scatter isn't that brilliant, and every Leman Russ that uses a BS for its main gun is a pretty horrible choice in the first place, so all your really doing is spending more points on an already inferior vehicle.

For Creed, see Kell. They support each other very well as a supporting CCS, throwing out orders all over the shop and twin-linking HWTs left, right and centre. Very expensive combination, but if your investing in lots of HWTs you almost need the assurance that you'll be able to twin-link them 90% of the time to get the full use out of them.

Straken is god in an assault-blob army. His bubble is awesome and he's a CC beast himself.

Al'Rahem is also pretty awesome with a blob army, as his outflanking lets a power blob get to within striking distance normally without suffering a single casualty.

Harker, Yarrick, Kamir, Nork and Chenkov I have no experience with, so I'll let other fill in those gaps.

L. Wrex

Chenkov sounds good for an objective game if you have an objective really close to your table edge and need to fight off a deepstriking enemy.

Al-Rahem can pull a full platoon with him and gives you a chance to split the opponent's attention, he also gives you the chance to take out any enemy units hiding behind the front lines.

Yarrick is a great character now seeing as though he can get up on 3+ after losing his last wound and his laser eye is S3 AP3.

I've played against Straken, but managed to take his vet squad out with a penal legion squad so I'm wary of taking him.

Bastogne is useless.

Pask is good if you want to glance with plasma weapons.

Harker is one of the best characters in that codex. Allowing a unit that has oodles of special weapons to outflank or infiltrate is dead sexy, plus giving them stealth & move through cover on top of that is great.

Straken is a badass, especially when flying in via Valkirye.

Al'Rahem is worth every point. He + Harker + Creed = outflanking shenanigans.

Creed- meh. 2 more orders for 85pts? Only worth it in some armies. (I'm looking at you, outflanking hellhounds/banewolfs).
Yarrick- Is a hard little nut to crack, with a S6 PK, 4+ re-roll and if he dies, he returns on a 3+, pretty damn good. Only for some armies, in certain games. I got him for SL fluff and to ride in his fortress in apoc.
Strakan- Hard little nut to crack, with a S6 power weapon, 3+ sv and FNP (IIRC), pretty damn good, especially for the price tag.

It should also be noted that the role of Kell can be easily duplicated by a lord commissar, who generally does the job much better (and can also do other jobs kell can't as well).

Ailaros wrote:It should also be noted that the role of Kell can be easily duplicated by a lord commissar, who generally does the job much better (and can also do other jobs kell can't as well).

I knew I forgot to mention something. That's exactly why I ignored Kell in the first place. He costs more than a LC


I think I'll want to build an army around Straken, but then again since I'll be getting loooots of infantry for, I can easily exchange him for Al'Rahem or maybe Creed.
Lets get green stuffing and sculpt a model of Schwarzenegger then. Many kilograms of badly sculpted greenstuff later I might actually get what I want. Oh well, you have to start somewhere

Only ones that are remotely worth it are Straken, Alrahem and Marbo.

Straken is great in a foot list where you have infantry blobs with power weapons and a commisar with power weapon and you have counter attack and furious charge.

Alrahem is good in the same foot list with 50+ dudes outflanking with 5 meltas and power weapons with commisar to nab the opponents objective

Marbo is good when there are no kill points he pops up kills some stuff usually more then his points worth and the opponent has to waste time killing him.

Creed is in my mind worth every point if you use him wisely. That 24'' range allows you to sit him back and centered on the board acting as a safety net stopping units from falling back off the table with the 'Get back in the fight' order. Also you can gain huge benifits from the Bring it down order, especially if you have a few HWS kicking around. Whether it be lascannons for vehicles or even Heavy bolters/Autocannons for MC's. Another good point to raise is that if you use a blobbed infantry platoon the 'For the honour of Cadia' rule becomes very powerful for a guard army....mediocre for the rest of the world but he's not jesus. With 5 sergeants and commissars with power weapons the extra strength goes a long way for putting down those extra wounds. So a 90 point upgrade increases you're order range allowing for you to save more squads and issue the 'Bring it Down order' to those far out HWS and maybe Melta's doing a counter charge, and it allows you to perform some pretty good countercharges with blobbed infantry. The tactical Genious is pretty nifty too. Ever needed that delivery method to get those melta vets upfield and couldn't afford a Chimera (probably because you took Creed in the first place lol) Giving any unit scouts adds a nice play on things. I think he's a sound choice for my place style which is a hybrid gun-line. He's never out of place and I usually take him a 1500 when I have the extra infantry to make him worth his salt.

Kell on the other hand....Heh. I take him along with Creed but I don't really consider him worth the points. Re-roll failed orders and using Creeds leadership is handy for units like HWS with a low leadership but at 85 pts? It's questionable. The half price rule of 42.5 pts would be a bargin since you're giving more orders but 85?. Sworn Protector doesn't really come into my thought pattern because if they're taking hits it's my fault for not shielding them in the first place. I think with the close combat gear he has he's meant to be a beast in close combat but its a damn lie. I suppose I would warrent taking him and his point to effect ratio are about in line. It does mean your orders are issued more effectively since you use the officers leadership instead of the squads. I just wish I could get rid of the stupid P/Fists and that to bring him down in price >.< A t3 w2 isn't going anywhere near the frontline at 85pts a piece.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way don't disregard Chenkov too fast. I've heard of some interesting builds incorporating him and i'm going to try one next week. Might have been Ailaros that came up with this on another post about a week ago. The 'send in the next wave' rule seems a bit naff at first glance since conscripts are only good for dying, why pay another 145 pts (Chenkov + the rule) so you can bring them back only to die again. The idea was that you pushed forward with the conscripts followed closely by a blobbed guard platoon. Now usually it can be a tug of war with your enemy when you both arrive head on with who's going to charge. The conscripts can charge or be charged it doesn't matter. When your ready, in your shooting phase issue the order so they respawn and then charge the enemy with your conscripts. As I mentioned I'm a fan of Creeds so his 'For the Honour of Cadia' rule will help me out here too ^.^ You get the charge with the blobbed power weapon weilding menace (I'll get 'for Cadia' since i'm one of very few people who warrent taking Creed) and the conscripts can now sit back and hold an objective the rest of the game. If someone wants to contest that objective, they've plenty of bodies to get through and worst comes to worst, if you managed to keep Chenkov alive you could respawn them to keep contesting the same objective.

In my mind it's an initial advantage and an insurance policy that one objective will not fall to the enemy. I reckon it might be a nice little tactic, i'm going to try it out.

Wait, with the 'send in the next wave' rule the unit receiving the rule has to be removed from play and counted as 'destroyed' before the new unit can be deployed.

So it would have to be like this;

Conscript squad is ahead of power blob in this scenario. The conscript squad charges into a target while the power blob waits. At the beginning of your next turn(rule states that the unit must be removed at the beginning of your turn) you remove your conscript squad which opens the enemy to either shooting or a charge from the power blob(using 'cadia' of course).

However, it doesn't seem like the 'send in the next wave' is an order. In fact it says that its a special rule meaning you can't do that in the shooting phase and that it is done automatically. So even if Chenkov is gone, you can still recycle the unit over and over again.

Well I think we are all in agreement about Marbo.

I have been known to field a 150 body guard army and creed and kell are essential for that list to work well

I run Pask in a vanquisher from time to time. The few times that he kills a land raider from across the board on turn one compensate for the other games that he does little. Having said that Pask in an Exterminator is pure pimp sauce in Leman Russ form

Pask is good, and the Vanquisher is the best place for him in my opinion. He can run the total armor damage up to 21 thanks to the vanquisher cannon's special rule.

As far as him in an exterminator I don't know if I would call that pimp sauce. Please explain, seriously, I would love to run Pask in something besides a Vanquisher where he really isn't needed.

Pask in an Exterminator standing still gets 4 twinlinked effectively S8 shots against vehicles. That plus the hull weapon is pretty much murder on light to medium vehicles.

I feel like trying to make the case for some of the less loved uniques in the codex. Maybe it is the freshly converted rough riders drawing me into finding uses for what people dismiss as pants. I'm not saying that they are tournament material but they can be useful.

Lets see, first off we have Nork. I think I loved the idea of Nork ever since i saw Fred Reed's conversion in one of the old white dwarfs. He may seem like an expensive addition but he offers a few things for his price tag. His main role is to keep the commander alive at all costs, a job he can do admirably. With a full squad, an astropath and Nork you would have to wound the squad 21 times before you were required to put a wound on the commander, not bad considering Nork's FNP and carapace. This really helps you soak up massive amounts of bolter fire. I think that the main use would be when you are attacked by high strength templates. Anything short of str 10 that hits your squad would usually ID your commander. With Nork's T5 you can Look out Sir the wounds on to him to prevent this. I know I am forcing some use out of him but even ignoring his CC potential (just get him FC and see what he can do to T3 models) he has some use. Expensive as hell yes but what do you expect for the most loyal friend you could have in the Imperium?

Bastonne has already been mentioned as the best way to guarantee something dies from a valkyrie drop. I prefer 5 man stormtroopers for this job however so I came up with another use. Slap in some plasma and an AC and he will slaughter cany transports that come near you. You can use this to cover areas that your CCS is nowhere near, making you able to set up crossfires to get at that juicy side armour. However he is only really and good as a way to get a third (or 4th with Al'Rahem) BiD guy into your force. Ok he isn't great but i tried...

I have actually grown a lot more fond of Mogul Kamir ever since I found out that rage has no effect upon what or when you charge the enemy, only movement, running and consolidation. I am going to assume that FC works with the hunting lance otherwise he is just broken; I can't imagine anyone would knowingly give a unit a rule they couldn't use. He is just about the best counter charge unit in the codex. For 95 points you can have him and a squad sit behind your chimera line as it advances, making them almost invulnerable to anything short of barrage. This will block his line of sight to the enemy until you need it. You can then counter charge almost anywhere within 24" of where he is with up to 14 str 6 power weapon attacks at I6. Imagine doing that to some multiwound t3 units (DE spring to mind but I know almost nothing about them so feel free to correct this). This could well take out those CC units that are about to roll up your line. As just about the only unit in the codex capable of taking on elite CC units and winning I don't see why he is lamented so much; although rage can be annoying it can be managed properly.

So there you go. 3 'useless' units that have their uses. Well, they are a bit on the expensive side but are either really fun to use (just try to have more fun than doing Nork's voice in a game, i dare you), a way to expand orders to remote places (Bastonne) or super powerful scalpel weapons (Kamir).

Now all I need is some way to make a cyber cold one model.

Raxmei wrote:Pask in an Exterminator standing still gets 4 twinlinked effectively S8 shots against vehicles. That plus the hull weapon is pretty much murder on light to medium vehicles.

How does he get twin-linked weapons?

Crack Shot only allows Pask to add +1 to his armor penetration rolls and reroll wounds against monstrous creatures.

halonachos wrote:

Raxmei wrote:Pask in an Exterminator standing still gets 4 twinlinked effectively S8 shots against vehicles. That plus the hull weapon is pretty much murder on light to medium vehicles.

How does he get twin-linked weapons?

Crack Shot only allows Pask to add +1 to his armor penetration rolls and reroll wounds against monstrous creatures.

Exterminator. The tank's weapon is already twinlinked.

Okay, got the exterminator and executioner confused again. Stupid letter 'e'.

halonachos wrote:Okay, got the exterminator and executioner confused again. Stupid letter 'e'.

Remember it like this: the exterminator does not make an ex-terminator. It is the executioner that executes them.