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Please help a noob out. I need to know how I can beat minotaur with my WOC. I am getting a rematch against a guy who had a unit with a doombull run right through my entire army last time we played.

I'm looking for whatever ideas you guys have. I was thinking I'd add a hell cannon, and perhaps try and tip the odds with the lore of shadow instead of tzeentch.

If your having a LOT of trouble, the usual MoT Warriors could pin him while the rest of your stuff heads off....

Also, you can have all kinds of high STR guys, Marauders with Flails or GW, Marauder Horsemen, or pimped out characters!

Ward saves and high strength I think would be your friend!

Shadow magic debuffs wouldn't hurt either.

The Doombull can hit like a truck- maybe have something durable challenge him out, and use high initiative, high strength, high weapon skill troops to cut away his supporting minos before they swing.

Minos hit hard, but any casualties you inflict will reduce the damage he can send back your way unless the unit is really big.

so it sounds like I need to tool out a chaos lord to bring him low.

As far as the troops, do you guys suppose Halberd warriors with the mark of khorne or Tzeentch warriors with sword and board would work better? I usually run one block of each, but I'm curious to know which unit you guys will think could be more successful.

Block his advance with waves of chaos hounds, and kill the rest of his army.

-Matt

Not sure how cheesy it is, but maybe throw Festus in a unit of ahw MoK warriors. 4 str.4 poisoned attacks per warrior at 5 WS and I would be nasty. That should bring down his damage coming back at you and then you get a 5+ regen save too. I guess halberds would be good too. 3 str.5 attacks per warrior might be better since that next rank is only getting one attack anyway, you might as well make it easier to wound.

A Tzeench lord with a 3+ ward save and any magic weapon designed for killing things dead should be able to sort the Doombull.


Tzeench warriors should do fine against the regulat Minotaurs. you hit first and it's only a 4+ to wound against no armor to speak of. you should be rocking a 4+ armor with shield warriors(unless the Mino's have GWs) and then there is the parry save.


you could put the Sword of Strife on a Tzeench lord with the Talisman of Preservation. 3+ ward and you have 7, count them, 7 attacks at Str5. he will wound the doombull on 4+ and the regular minotaurs on 3+.

against a doombull in a challange.

WS8 vs WS6. 3+m to hit, 7 attacks, about 5 hits. 4+ to wound. 3 wounds rounding up. assuming the Doombull has at least a 5+ ward means he probably bounces one. so the Doombull has 3 left.

Doombull attacks needing 4+ to hit with a GW. 5 attacks, 3 hits rounding up. 2+ to wound. 3 wounds. no armor, but the 3+ ward bounces 2 wounds.

the lord will, on average, kill the doombull in 3 rounds. assuming the unit he is in doesn't run away from the Tzeench warriors hacking them to pieces.


against a regular minotaur unit.

7 attacks, 3+ to hit. about 5 hits. 3+ to wound, about 3 wounds rounding down. no saves so thats a dead minotaur each round. the warriors also get to attack before the Mino's so that will be a few more dead before anything else.

Ok, if you insist on fighting them:

40 marauders of khrone with flails.

Minotaur suffer from low initiative, and are great at killing heavy armor. So, counter with higher init, and don't blow points on heavy armor.

-Matt

I'd say throw a unit of 40 Maruaders with MoK and GW in horde formation. There are going to a ton of S5 attacks going his way. Or, as others have suggested, throw a resilient unit at them to keep them stuck in CC whlie you get the rest of his army.

I'm a WoC player and no Beastmen at my flgs. Curious what makes mino so tough?

rlsquared2 wrote:I'm a WoC player and no Beastmen at my flgs. Curious what makes mino so tough?

1. They are very fast at movement 6
2. Str 5
3. WS 4
4. Blood Greed makes them crazy. I don't rememeber exactly how this rule works because I tried to pretend like it wasn't happening once the pain started.
5. Doombulls are mean.

I've not done any math, but is hard to picture even Tztchy warriors with sword and board hold minos for very long at all. Some have suggested pitching dogs and marauders at them, but then we run into the blood greed problem. I"ve only played them once, so I have to admit, I really have no idea.

In general artillery is good for taking down minotaurs. So Hellcannon would be a good option. Or you could go down the hex route with lore of shadow on a sorcerer to make it easier for your warriors to kill them.

If they are frenzied(and they probably will be). Get Warhounds into their faces and angle the hounds way away and watch as the minos must overrun.

You're going the wrong way!

At the current, I really like the Shadow debuff/Hell cannon ideas. I'm also going to try a chaos lord for the first time.

Are mino's always frenzied? Is it worth trying to lead them around with fast cav? I have dog and M. horsmen models out the waazoo.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:If they are frenzied(and they probably will be). Get Warhounds into their faces and angle the hounds way away and watch as the minos must overrun.

You're going the wrong way!

But they only overrun D6".

The feed the greed plan works, and more importantly, really pisses off the Minotaur player.
1) March chaos hounds an inch in front, and angle/space so that the D6" over-run doesn't hit anything else.
2) Lob in indirect fire.
3) Wait for charge.
4) Loose 36 points of dogs.
5) Go back to step one.

I saw tomb kings shoot the piss out of a huge minotaur block. The TK player simply moved his fast cav to block the path, then shot them up. Each round, the minotaur were limited to ~80 points of kills, while the rest of the army pounded them.

Pretty much any army with cheap and fast units can do this.

-Matt

I can vouch for the redirection trick, it works wonders with skinks.

And now, for the Dramatic conclusion...


We ended up with the Dawn scenario, however the bulk of most of our armies ended up smack dab in the middle. My anti- doombull/minotaur plan involved a few elements. I brought the lore of shadow for the first time and tooled up a Chaos lord with sword that ignores armor and and a 3+ ward save. I lined up a block of Sword and board chaos warriors and a Hoard of Marauders with great weapons and the mark of khorne. He would charge one block, and the other would be there to counter charge. During the same turn I get Miasma on his deathstar and get to take -2 off a number of his stats, but most importanly his weapon skill was signigantly reduced. I forgot to use smoke and mirrors to get my lvl 4 out out of the combat unit. This is a mistake that may have cost me the game.


His minos charge my chaos warriors, he declines my chaos lords challenge, smash my sorceror, and loose combat, but hold. They are then hit in the side by the hoard of great weapon marauders and get wrecked. The doombull and the minos get run down. Mission complete!


However, with out my sorceor, he was able to get the transformation of kadon off twice and I had a Mountain Chimera kill the rest of my army. At the end of the day, I still count it as a moral victory.

Just for grins, we rolled off the fight between the doombull and my chaos lord, just to see what could have happened. After 3 or 4 rounds of mock combat they both killed each other. It was hillarous

I am curious to know how it would have worked out if I had tried to stall them with a wall of hounds. I would have loved to remove them from the game and just fight the rest of the army, but I'm just skeptical as to whether or not they wouldn't break through with a crazy number of blood greed counters.

You did send the Doombull to the back when he declined the Challange right?

if he refuses the Challange you get to pick a single model that could have accepted the challange(not champions) and send it to a rear rank. it may not attack this round.

He accepted with the unit champ and then the bsb.

above, you said he declined.

Yes, he declined to accept the challenge with the Doombull, instead accepting it with the above models.

WHich is why you "make way" to ensure only one Mino can touch your sorceror, so you only get 6 / 8 attacks against it...

HawaiiMatt wrote:Block his advance with waves of chaos hounds, and kill the rest of his army.

-Matt

I really don't think this is the best idea. With Bloodgreed, he'll have more attacks. Once you face him, you may have given him 2-3 more attacks..making for a nasty rampant beast.

I play Beastmen, and minos are our glass cannons. Their I is low and they have low / negligible armor. use Marauder horsemen to harry their flanks and riddle them with throwing spears. their I is lower than most WoC and you can take advantage of that. You have all the tools to handle them in CC, so make use of them.
Doombulls can be horrific. There's no 2 ways about it. I'd say if you're really worried, have a mounted lord ride out and challenge him. Hold the whole unit up and maybe kill him. Their LD is low and w/o him they may break. (unless there's a BSB nearby....and there will be).
Doombulls are pricey, so are Chaos Lords. It's an even draw and you have many nasty tools to handle him. MoN will help you a lot. Minos do NOT have primal fury, and no re-rolls (unless taking certain weapons). So lowering his chance to hit wil be amazing.

Maybe try "Chaos lord: + fencers blades, MoN, Ward save and shield...."

oh yes. Don't let him get the charge.

You wont be able to take fencers blades and use them with a shield at same time in combat. They count as 2 close combat weapons.

nosferatu1001 wrote:WHich is why you "make way" to ensure only one Mino can touch your sorceror, so you only get 6 / 8 attacks against it...

Nos, can you elaborate? I thought you could only Make Way with a character if it wasn't already in contact. I didn't think it was an option for a character already in contact with the enemy that wanted to be somewhere better. Maybe we're not envisioning the same scenario. But if the sorcerer isn't already in contact, then why Make Way at all?

It was more of a "you should have made way already" - you can guess when youre going to receive a charge, so you make sure your wizard moves to an edge. That way, when they maximise models, you should only get 1 mino attacking you.

Yes keeping mages on the unit's edge is the best way to kkep them safe(ish), assuming you maneuver properly.