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Then is it feasible that their would be marines around now, or even entire chapters, who bear the geneseed of the 2 lost legions?

Personally, i think so, as when they died their geneseed would definitely be harvested for use in future astartes.

Yeah makes sense to me, legions were what 100,000ish marines strong back then? I mean I'm not a phd in math but I think statistically It makes sense that at least a small amount of that gene-seed could still be around.

You probably shouldn't put the idea of the 2 legions being in the Ultramarines in your topic title. It's kinda spoilerish.

As to the topic itself, it's definitely a possibility. The Ultramarines were all too happy to split their legion when the time came. Most of the foundings adhere strictly to the Codex, while others, such as the Mortifactors, are quite different.


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Not all the legions were that large. Really the only ones that big were the Ultramarines and Word Bearers. Other legions, such as the Thousand Sons and Space Wolves, were WAY smaller.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Two_unknown_legions

I don't know what happened to the lost legions but the link above brings together a lot of sources on the subject.

Space Wolves weren't that small. the Word Bearers and Ultramarines were the largest, but the wolves had quite a few in their prime.

they took heavy casualities during the Heresy, unlike the Smurfs who were too busy writing books, polishing their armor, and generally being full of themselves to come to Terra. and they might have fought off the word bearers, but who cares?

CajunMan wrote:You probably shouldn't put the idea of the 2 legions being in the Ultramarines in your topic title. It's kinda spoilerish.

As to the topic itself, it's definitely a possibility. The Ultramarines were all too happy to split their legion when the time came. Most of the foundings adhere strictly to the Codex, while others, such as the Mortifactors, are quite different.


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Not all the legions were that large. Really the only ones that big were the Ultramarines and Word Bearers. Other legions, such as the Thousand Sons and Space Wolves, were WAY smaller.

It is only speculation and is therefore not a spoiler.

No, the 2 lost legions are just that, Lost.

While the HH does give a lot of tiny little hints (at least what ive read so far.....

How can there be a second legion
horus went back in time and killed the primarch of the second legion and when that happened the emporer was still creating the dark angels gene seed

SonofTerra wrote:While the HH does give a lot of tiny little hints (at least what ive read so far.....

Spoiler:

It also hints in a few that many of the other astartes think that the ultramarines received many of the soldiers aswell

To be fair it says:

I am of this opinion

If that's what happened, I would conjecture that the survivors of the 2nd and 11th legions were mindscrubbed before reassignment. Since all records were destroyed, there's probably no-one in M.41 who has a clue. Well, except the Traitor Legionnaires, The Fallen, any other survivors of that time, and the Biologis adepts who do the geneseed purity screenings.

I am pretty sure their standard is reference to the loss of the 1st company at MaCragge to the bugs.

Exopheric: that should have been the 11th primarch, horus killed the second primarch whilst he was still being born and then broke the geller fields so the gods could steal the primarchs.

I don't think the Ultras took on any of the Astartes of the two lost legions, certainly not in large enough numbers for there to be any left today.

My reasoning is that the modern Ultramarines pride themselves on their genetic purity. There is no degradation of the currently used geneseed, compared to the originals used 10,000 years ago. If the gene-tithes the Ultramarines and/or their successors payed back to Mars started showing differences and variations (say, from belonging to a different Primarch), it would set off some major red flags.

moonshine wrote:Exopheric: that should have been the 11th primarch, horus killed the second primarch whilst he was still being born and then broke the geller fields so the gods could steal the primarchs.

No,

Grey Templar wrote:

moonshine wrote:Exopheric: that should have been the 11th primarch, horus killed the second primarch whilst he was still being born and then broke the geller fields so the gods could steal the primarchs.

No,

Spoiler:

it was a Word Bearer who destroyed the Geller field and all the Primarchs definitly survived to adulthood: First Heritic

No, Horus didn't. The novels make a point to mention that ALL 20 Primarchs were recovered and ALL 20 Legions participated in the Great Crusade.

I think you are referring to is

Thats probably what i meant, It's been so long since i read it, but I don't know why i thought horus killed the second primarch. One thing is odd to me though. Why did both horus and the word bearers not notice the 21st life pod for Omegon?, or why did they not spot two primarchs in the same life pod ?

they weren't paying attention?

the two lost primarchs are an interesting topic, for instance

Actually, that is SPOILERY (!) enough to warrant a title change, so... Shazam!

The eleventh primarch might have been the one seen by argel tal. Horus saw the eleventh primarch and later on he smashed his fist onto the glass of the life suport which could mean the eleveth primarch was more exposed to the warp and was the most tainted which caused him to turn to chaos with his legion and then mutate, just like what argel tal saw.

Can we agree on this:

- 20 Primarchs were created
- 20 Space Marine Legions were founded at Terra
- the records of 2 of the Primarchs and their Legions have been extinguished#



Its not impossible to have more than we expect as source of geneseed:
- geneseed is handed to the ad biologis for screening. But there is also that bit of the genebanks containing a complete set of geneseed.
- geneseed is said to be kept pure and separated. Now foundings had side-effects and some of the marines showed traits not really common with loyal Legios.
- the source of the geneseed of a chapter is known to the ad biologis, and maybe the High lords, but the chapter itself may not know.

Its unlikely the Emperor had no plan for 2 of his Primarchs.
If the Legios were already founded, would he give up the marines if the Primarch isn't taking over the Legio?



Seems the Emperor had all his sons and any involved marine sign a NDA.

as we all know by now, the primarchs represented diferent aspects of the Big E, I wonder what the deleted ones represented?

I'd guess the Emps capacity for Evil
and his capacity for Hate

imagine 50,000 marines... Angry all the time... Kind of "Angry Marines" if you will....
(last bit joke)

moonshine wrote:The eleventh primarch might have been the one seen by argel tal. Horus saw the eleventh primarch and later on he smashed his fist onto the glass of the life suport which could mean the eleveth primarch was more exposed to the warp and was the most tainted which caused him to turn to chaos with his legion and then mutate, just like what argel tal saw.

Again guys, I don't think any of the "Chaos Vision" 'really' happened - it was just a vision of things skewed in ways to show how awful and mean the Emperor was, and how sweet and tender and truthful the Chaos Entities were/are.

Remember, Gellar Fields baby, Gellar Fields!

Of chourse the chaos visions hapend. Argel tals sword broke in the vision and when he woke up he was broken. They all had to be carefull the emporer didn't detect them aswell, if it was just a vision they would'nt have to worry about the emporer detecting them. Also how come nobody spotted Omegon.

I always thought the 2 Unknown legions were the DeathWatch and the Grey Knights? But I guess that wouldn't make sense because those weren't around til Post-Heresy.

moonshine wrote:Of chourse the chaos visions hapend. Argel tals sword broke in the vision and when he woke up he was broken. They all had to be carefull the emporer didn't detect them aswell, if it was just a vision they would'nt have to worry about the emporer detecting them. Also how come nobody spotted Omegon.

Er... no?

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Yes, When the word bearers opened their eyes argel tals sword (red iron) was broken beyond repair, and Raum warned them the emporer would sence them if they interfeared with anything.

grayspark wrote:I always thought the 2 Unknown legions were the DeathWatch and the Grey Knights? But I guess that wouldn't make sense because those weren't around til Post-Heresy.

deathwatch are a coalition chapter, made of vetran recruits( ) from all chapters