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Hi there!

I tried out using Duke Sliscuss tonight. Took him in a raider with 9 warriors and a splinter cannon.

I deep striked a 2 vehicles but that wasnt my main tactic. I was generally just trying a few things out to see how they would work before the next few league games I have comming up, like 5 trueborn with 2 darklances, which worked alright but I think I'll take 5 in a venom with 4 blasters and a dracon with a blast pistol!

I was fighting Eldar and got decimated pretty early due to the lack of targets on the board at the start and also partly due to luck. Then mostly due to bad luck, I failed to do much for the rest of the game with any effect, but Slicuss worked well with the warriors. The 3+ poison really helps.

Next time Im going to take him with 9 trueborn, (2 with splinter cannons, 7 with splinter carbines).

I forgot to even roll for the combat drugs as usual never mind re-roll, but thats also a fairly good benefit.

Anyone else found many good uses for him? I want to try a full transport army all deep striking but I wouldnt do it every game.

The biggest use for him by far is in a Wych based army, the ability to re-roll the Drugs roll is by far the most powerful of his abilities. A list with 3-4 units of Wyches and a couple of Blaster Trueborn units is a pretty solid start to an army.

Being able to Deep Strike everything in is nice, but its harder to build an effective army based around that without fully committing to that kind of MSU full mech build.

Just an irritation with GW:

To get a splinter cannon, you have to have 10 warriors. You can't fit 10 warriors plus the Duke in a Raider.

You can get two, and seven shardcarbines, in a trueborn unit, with room left over for Sliscus.

Wow, you freaked me out for a moment there! lol. But yes, the Trueborn, the trueborn.

Is it splinter carbine or shard carbine? Oh yes shard carbine.

Cant wait to use that one next time.

Definately going to be using a unit of wyches in a raider, some hekatrix in a venom, then 10-15 hellions and probably 6 jet bikes with heat lances.

The league our club is doing goes up 250pts every 2 games (per month), and were on 1500 for february, so the lists are going to start getting much more interesting.

Anyone got any good advice for keeping jet bikes alive? I dont even think I'd put them into combat, I dont think theyre worth it. Thats why I suicide them with the heat lances.

to keep them alive move them VERY fast (3+ cover save)over units and give them chain snares. first time I ever used deldar (they were the stores) I just flew them over my opponent and managed to kill about 2 units without firing a shot and he wasnt able to kill me with guns as I had a 3+ cover save

...I need to get some reavers now that I think about it

I used him recently and I loved the second roll on drugs, and I run a raider/ravager army anyways, so the deepstrike option is very nice. And Trueborn that wound on a 3+ is a massive upgrade.

However in assault he was a bit underwhelming, however, I did have bad rolls (like I rolled mostly 2s and 3s against a SM commander when hitting), and I had one hit on an assault turn that caused 3 pw wounds and he saved all three. But, I was disapointed to find out he is WS 6 when an Archon is WS 7. And for 150pts, I guess you are not building an assault monster, but an army upgrade character. Oh and I failed my very first shadow save, sigh....

Newt-Of-Death wrote:Wow, you freaked me out for a moment there! lol. But yes, the Trueborn, the trueborn.

Is it splinter carbine or shard carbine? Oh yes shard carbine.

Cant wait to use that one next time.

Definately going to be using a unit of wyches in a raider, some hekatrix in a venom, then 10-15 hellions and probably 6 jet bikes with heat lances.

The league our club is doing goes up 250pts every 2 games (per month), and were on 1500 for february, so the lists are going to start getting much more interesting.

Anyone got any good advice for keeping jet bikes alive? I dont even think I'd put them into combat, I dont think theyre worth it. Thats why I suicide them with the heat lances.

I suggest not using jetbikes, they are a suicide unit, don't expect them to live. I also contend Baron with Hellions does the same splinter damage of Duke with Trueborn in a raider, and is better in almost every way since the duke's raider will get shot down.

Bikes are worth their weight in gold, just not a lot of them. A str 6 cluster caltrop upgrade sees Lascannon heavy weapon teams from guard insta-killed, units being decimated and needing to take tests, and a 36" threat range as well as being able to contest objectives from half way across the board! Never take weapons on them if you plan on using them this way, just keep it basic, and people do not percieve them as a threat. They are ignored, and then they win you the game.

Bikes are the true power weapon in DE lists.

A.) 6 bikes with two caltrops is average of 8 S4 and 7 S6 hits.
B.) The hits are not subject to cover saves.
C.) They get to do their damage in the movement phase so they set up units for pain tokens.

The weakness is positioning for counter assault. Once they get a pain token and jet bike around, they are tough to kill.

Think about it, they are probably the equivalent of a HB armed dev squad for damage potential so all troops are juicy targets for them.

Anglacon wrote:Bikes are worth their weight in gold, just not a lot of them. A str 6 cluster caltrop upgrade sees Lascannon heavy weapon teams from guard insta-killed, units being decimated and needing to take tests, and a 36" threat range as well as being able to contest objectives from half way across the board! Never take weapons on them if you plan on using them this way, just keep it basic, and people do not percieve them as a threat. They are ignored, and then they win you the game.

Your opponent allocates wounds to his Lascannon heavy weapons? They are ignored? What idiots have you been facing? Every time I tried them they were just a juicy KP just waiting to be taken.

The weakness is positioning for counter assault. Once they get a pain token and jet bike around, they are tough to kill.

Except S6+ hits ignores FNP on them. And anytime they make their 36" move they are in range to be assaulted. I still say it's an expensive suicide unit who's job could be done better and cheaper by other units in the codex.

The deepstrike bonus for the Duke is a trap...if you go for the deepstrike everything option, you'll get shot up piecemeal. The drug bonus roll is his huge contribution, so make sure to have lots of wyches. While not a melee monster, he's good enough to help a DE squad overwhelm regular troops (tactical marines, eldar, etc) reliably.

The massive trueborn squad is pretty expensive to try and make use of the Duke's poison. I think what might work best is a raider with splinter racks, flicker field and 9 warriors with splinter rifles. Fairly cheap, can zip forward with your wyches to get in range, and then the Duke can hop out to help wyches in assault while you cruise around dropping 18 TL BS4 wound on +3 shots a turn. That's what...10-11 wounds a volley, so not too shabby.

DAaddict wrote:
B.) The hits are not subject to cover saves.

Actually, you may want to reread your codex. It specifically says cover saves may be taken as normal.

DAaddict wrote:The weakness is positioning for counter assault.

This is the major issue...the bikes are vulnerable to melee (or if there are mobile flamers anywhere). With heat lances and such they make for a fast unit that can threaten anything, but they are expensive and fragile. I always find myself looking at taking them, but in the end opting for something else. As a DE player I love seeing opposing DE with reavers...it means I can outshoot my opponent at range, and as the reavers move forward I get a unit for my wyches to assault and get a free pain point.

Ashenshugar wrote:Your opponent allocates wounds to his Lascannon heavy weapons? They are ignored? What idiots have you been facing? Every time I tried them they were just a juicy KP just waiting to be taken.

A lot, and i mean a LOT of guard players have troops in transports with heavy weapon teams in cover like woods or buildings. There is nothing to allocate to because the entire unit of 3 heavy weapons, (lascannons, autocannons, etc) is by itself.

Automatic hits, don't roll 1's to wound, a failed cover save and "poof", dead heavy weapon team.

Every time I tried them they were just a juicy KP just waiting to be taken.

Then you are playing them wrong...

Yea, I can see the strong benefits of using jetbikes carefully. I might try 2 squads of 6 next time I have a friendly game just to try them out.

Tonight, I zoomed them up 36 in position to heatlance the manticore on turn 2, but the cover was all wrong yet I went ahead and tried anyway, and yes, I got burned down with mobile flamers! ha.

Oh and I failed my very first shadow save, sigh....

Yep! The very same. That time I used him. However I did have a shadowfield stand up to a full guard infantry squad and a full kasarkin squad and go on to kill them all with a friendly talos!

Dark Eldar are definately a very tricky army to play. Ive got years of experience with them, but I hold sentimental goals to high and try tactics because I would like them to work even when I know they probably wont. But this is the fun isnt it?!

I did use Lelith for the first time tonight, and she caused 2 wounds out of 11 attacks, the syren caused 5 with a power weapon lol.

I'll definately use Sliscuss occasionally tho. Playing a game agains Tyranids in a few days so Ill be using him for that for sure!

p.s. Wayland games take ages to send out orders..... GRRRRR!! (12 days and counting)

Anglacon wrote:

Ashenshugar wrote:Your opponent allocates wounds to his Lascannon heavy weapons? They are ignored? What idiots have you been facing? Every time I tried them they were just a juicy KP just waiting to be taken.

A lot, and i mean a LOT of guard players have troops in transports with heavy weapon teams in cover like woods or buildings. There is nothing to allocate to because the entire unit of 3 heavy weapons, (lascannons, autocannons, etc) is by itself.

Automatic hits, don't roll 1's to wound, a failed cover save and "poof", dead heavy weapon team.

If they're in cover, are you able to Bladevane them? The rules for Turboboosters say they cannot move through difficult terrain when boosting.

Doesn't pretty much all cover count as difficult terrain?

I have recently tried Sclicus in a Wytch heavy list at 2000 points and really liked him. He really buffed a unit of Trueborn into a massive threat. The second roll on the drugs was nice for the Wytches as well.

BUT

I find him difficult to fit into a 1500 point list and still feel like he is worthwhile. At 150 points he is a good deal from a buff perspective if you build around him. If you have less than three units of Wytches, he is kind of superfluous. I also like taking bigger squads of Wytches in Raiders and my Warriors in Venoms. The 2 Splinter Cannons are just absurdly good. Taking the Duke forces me to drop the Venoms and I'm just not too sure that is worth it to me. I think he is excellent in the right list AND at high points.

Phanatik wrote:Just an irritation with GW:

To get a splinter cannon, you have to have 10 warriors. You can't fit 10 warriors plus the Duke in a Raider.

the duke should never stay with warriors very long. He is a CC character and warriors are shooty. Start them on the table, behind their raider with whatever CC squad you want the duke to join nextdoor. First turn detach, join the CC squad, mount up, and both transports move out.

OP:

As a general rule of thumb for Dark Eldar, either reserve it all, or reserve none of it. Feeding your army piecemeal to an opponent is a sure way to lose.

Foo wrote:

Anglacon wrote:

Ashenshugar wrote:Your opponent allocates wounds to his Lascannon heavy weapons? They are ignored? What idiots have you been facing? Every time I tried them they were just a juicy KP just waiting to be taken.

A lot, and i mean a LOT of guard players have troops in transports with heavy weapon teams in cover like woods or buildings. There is nothing to allocate to because the entire unit of 3 heavy weapons, (lascannons, autocannons, etc) is by itself.

Automatic hits, don't roll 1's to wound, a failed cover save and "poof", dead heavy weapon team.

If they're in cover, are you able to Bladevane them? The rules for Turboboosters say they cannot move through difficult terrain when boosting.

Doesn't pretty much all cover count as difficult terrain?

They're jetbikes, they don't move through difficult terrain except when assaulting.

OP:

As a general rule of thumb for Dark Eldar, either reserve it all, or reserve none of it. Feeding your army piecemeal to an opponent is a sure way to lose.

Thought of that too. Learnt my lesson in the past! You really do need to have at least 2 of everything these days. If you take 1 Ravager for example, it can only take out 1 thing at a time, itl probably miss, and itl probably die lol.

Flicker fields are brilliant however.

Back to the Sliscus topic tho;

I dont think the warriors benefit from the shooting bonus if Sliscus 'was' attatched to them, he still has to be attatched. Definately take him with the trueborn tho, that works best. I actually took him in a venom with the extra cannon, 2 splinter cannons, and 2 of the trueborn with CC and pistols so that theyd get good splinter shooting and goodish CC for a medium or small game. I dont think the Venom gets the shooting bonus tho.

Ive only got 1 squad of wyches at the moment but definately intend to get 2. I wouldnt take more than 2 regularly tho. I just dont see myself as a wych orientated person.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Foo wrote:

Anglacon wrote:

Ashenshugar wrote:Your opponent allocates wounds to his Lascannon heavy weapons? They are ignored? What idiots have you been facing? Every time I tried them they were just a juicy KP just waiting to be taken.

A lot, and i mean a LOT of guard players have troops in transports with heavy weapon teams in cover like woods or buildings. There is nothing to allocate to because the entire unit of 3 heavy weapons, (lascannons, autocannons, etc) is by itself.

Automatic hits, don't roll 1's to wound, a failed cover save and "poof", dead heavy weapon team.

If they're in cover, are you able to Bladevane them? The rules for Turboboosters say they cannot move through difficult terrain when boosting.

Doesn't pretty much all cover count as difficult terrain?

They're jetbikes, they don't move through difficult terrain except when assaulting.

Hmm. The turboboosting rule specifically says for both bikes and jetbikes that, "they cannot move through difficult terrain, shoot, launch assaults or execute other voluntary action in the same turn..."

Doesn't that mean you can't turboboost through difficult terrain?

Newt-Of-Death wrote:I dont think the warriors benefit from the shooting bonus if Sliscus 'was' attatched to them, he still has to be attatched. Definately take him with the trueborn tho, that works best. I actually took him in a venom with the extra cannon, 2 splinter cannons, and 2 of the trueborn with CC and pistols so that theyd get good splinter shooting and goodish CC for a medium or small game. I dont think the Venom gets the shooting bonus tho.

you choose the unit at the beginning of the game, before turn 1 and he can leave and rejoin as he pleases. The 3+ posion stays with the original squad no matter what happens, even if the Duke is killed. If the ability was lost it would suck megahard and it would move on to whatever new squad he joined.

Foo wrote:
Hmm. The turboboosting rule specifically says for both bikes and jetbikes that, "they cannot move through difficult terrain, shoot, launch assaults or execute other voluntary action in the same turn..."

Doesn't that mean you can't turboboost through difficult terrain?

Don't have my book with me, but isn't this sorted out because the Reavers have the 'skilled riders' skill?

I've found Reavers to be a big waste of points in my games, and will be switching them out for a forthcoming tournament as the meta game/the terrain here doesn't seem to suit them. No doubt because I've left them behind, and because there will be different opponents at the tourney I'll wish I had them!

Foo wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

Foo wrote:

Anglacon wrote:

Ashenshugar wrote:Your opponent allocates wounds to his Lascannon heavy weapons? They are ignored? What idiots have you been facing? Every time I tried them they were just a juicy KP just waiting to be taken.

A lot, and i mean a LOT of guard players have troops in transports with heavy weapon teams in cover like woods or buildings. There is nothing to allocate to because the entire unit of 3 heavy weapons, (lascannons, autocannons, etc) is by itself.

Automatic hits, don't roll 1's to wound, a failed cover save and "poof", dead heavy weapon team.

If they're in cover, are you able to Bladevane them? The rules for Turboboosters say they cannot move through difficult terrain when boosting.

Doesn't pretty much all cover count as difficult terrain?

They're jetbikes, they don't move through difficult terrain except when assaulting.

Hmm. The turboboosting rule specifically says for both bikes and jetbikes that, "they cannot move through difficult terrain, shoot, launch assaults or execute other voluntary action in the same turn..."

Doesn't that mean you can't turboboost through difficult terrain?

Jetbikes don't go through difficult terrain, they go over it.

PG 53 of the BRB:
In the movement phase, jetbikes can move over all models and terrain freely. However, if a jetbike begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test.

So jetbikes are free to move however they want, as long as they don't start or end their Turboboost in difficult terrain.

Galador wrote:

Jetbikes don't go through difficult terrain, they go over it.

PG 53 of the BRB:
In the movement phase, jetbikes can move over all models and terrain freely. However, if a jetbike begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test.

So jetbikes are free to move however they want, as long as they don't start or end their Turboboost in difficult terrain.

Bah, beat me to it. =p

Surprised Dash hasn't said anything about Reavers yet...

My take on them is that, if you do take them, and if you focus on Turboboosting the whole time, then you need FNP on them. Sure, S6 ignores their FNP, but with a 3+ cover save the things you need to be worried about are templates and assault, both of which you'll get FNP on usually.

If you've got quite a few vehicles, then your opponent shouldn't be shooting S6 weapons at your bikes.

I've used the Duke in my Hellion army and it's been fun, having the option to DS everything is nice along with the drug reroll for the Hellions. I disagree that you should reserve all or none in EVERY game. There have been times when select DSs are tactically sound.

I generally only comment on reavers when the thread is topical to them - either discussing their utility or if someone is professing to have or be looking for a competitive DE list and is contemplating their inclusion. Here its just a sidebar. =D

Galador wrote:

Foo wrote:Hmm. The turboboosting rule specifically says for both bikes and jetbikes that, "they cannot move through difficult terrain, shoot, launch assaults or execute other voluntary action in the same turn..."

Doesn't that mean you can't turboboost through difficult terrain?

Jetbikes don't go through difficult terrain, they go over it.

PG 53 of the BRB:
In the movement phase, jetbikes can move over all models and terrain freely. However, if a jetbike begins or ends its move in difficult terrain, it must take a dangerous terrain test.

So jetbikes are free to move however they want, as long as they don't start or end their Turboboost in difficult terrain.

So that particular item (move through difficult terrain) applies only to the regular bikes, while the rest apply to both?

It does seem like they'd have to be down in the terrain to hit enemies there with their vanes, though. I shall try this argument with my opponents, 'cos it certainly makes them much more useful.

Foo wrote:So that particular item (move through difficult terrain) applies only to the regular bikes, while the rest apply to both?

It does seem like they'd have to be down in the terrain to hit enemies there with their vanes, though. I shall try this argument with my opponents, 'cos it certainly makes them much more useful.

Yes, cause in the rulebook it says free to more over for Jetbikes, while it says through for Turboboost. A small but important difference.

Also, why would I have to go into terrain if the 3 meter tall SM is standing up as I pass by? I can still be quite a bit off the ground and cut his head off. It also talks about (yes this is fluff but it helps give a bit of an explanation) that all the Reavers do while in Commoragh is run death races through hazardous tracks, so they are pretty good drivers, hence why they have skilled rider while their eldar counterparts, Guardian Jetbikes and Shining Spears, don't have it unless the Shining Spears Exarch pays for it. And Guardian jetbikes can't get it at all.

Point is, they can argue all they want, the rules state that we go over terrain, hence your bladevanes will hit them, even in area terrain, because all you have to do is pass over them, and you do that with Turboboost.

Exergy
you choose the unit at the beginning of the game, before turn 1 and he can leave and rejoin as he pleases. The 3+ posion stays with the original squad no matter what happens, even if the Duke is killed. If the ability was lost it would suck megahard and it would move on to whatever new squad he joined.

Awesome! Overlooked that part. That will change things for me.

Galador
Jetbikes don't go through difficult terrain, they go over it.

Was thinking exactly that!

LavuranGuard
Don't have my book with me, but isn't this sorted out because the Reavers have the 'skilled riders' skill?

This is an interesting one. I can find the skilled riders special rule anywhere. Maybe I havent looked hard enough?

I about to have a major rant about Dark Weapons now either on another thread or a new one so if your interested, have a look at that. I think theirs already a thread about alternative anti-tank. Put it this way, I got wiped out in annihilation today and I didnt make any tactical mistakes :( But it was still fun. My archon was the last to die! Damn mech guard armies.