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I mean following:
Do they have rights to common things in our society? Like to read newspaper, own a car, chose their job, go on strike when the payment is low, go on elections and chose between two governors, liberty to do what they want with their money , own a land, have more than 1 marriage, have PC with fast Internet....
I think that, no matter how much strong is Imperial regime, Humans have biggest liberty of all other races in 40k.

Brother Coa wrote:I mean following:
Do they have rights to common things in our society? Like to read newspaper, own a car, chose their job, go on strike when the payment is low, go on elections and chose between two governors, liberty to do what they want with their money , own a land, have more than 1 marriage, have PC with fast Internet....
I think that, no matter how much strong is Imperial regime, Humans have biggest liberty of all other races in 40k.

It depends on the planet that they live on. Some worlds are so restrictive that they're effectively prisons. And there are others at the opposite extreme.

So long as the planetary tithes are met, psykers are controlled, and the Imperial Creed is followed, the Imperium is content to more or less let worlds do whatever they want. As a result, Imperial citizens live in a wide variety of societies.

Unfortunately, planetary tithes have a tendency to be somewhat steep, and the need to deal with local tax riots means that the vast majority of worlds have at least some degree of suppression in place.

Yep, depens on the planetary governor, but also, they are watched by the high lords of terra and administratum adepts, for the limits of it, whether too tight or too loose.
They have rights but not as we thought as today, see it as, hives are industrial places and imperium provides them work to them, and protection, the rights are seen as this, correct me if I'm wrong.

naa I think there are some rights. Until you work, pay taxes and you're not a heretic you may live.

It depends from world to world, not every damn solar system has a tyrant or nobles that likes to control the population with tyranny. I am sure that FREE THINKING exists in the galaxy to some extent and is tollerated even by the Ministorum.

This may lead to heresy easily, but it would be interesting rather than having an entire galaxy lockminded.

There are several fundamental rights they clearly don't have.

Freedom of religion and conscience.
Freedom from persecution based on genetic inheritance. (I would call it racism, but it's to do with being magic or a mutant, not the colour of your skin.)
They are taxed without representation.

Without these basic rights, the question of whether the local government is a tyranny or supposedly democratic is pointless.

Minor things like being able to read the newspaper, or have internet access, are irrelevant if an Inquisitor can bust into your house at any time and execute your entire family.

Sure they do, they have the right to work hard all their lives for the good of the Imperium! What more could they possibly want?

The only religious restrictions the Imperium itself imposes are "admit the Emperor is totally awesome, and don't worship the ruinous powers or consort with daemons, because that's just plain stupid."

Mutants are persecuted because they're not humans, and are generally chaos worshiping filth, while psykers are contained to prevent the damage they are capable of.

Imperial Citizens aren't taxed by the Imperium, Imperial worlds are, mostly in the form of food, labor, and a handful of Guard recruits, in order to keep the Imperium running smoothly.

Ideas of "rights" and "freedoms" are the product of modern thinking - a movement which is unlikely to have survived over 38,000 years.

The idea that the individual has unique worth which must be protected doesn't seem to exist any more.

Gotta get a box set of Judge Dredd all the civil rules and laws are within.....I got one....old school

What? Being alive in a galaxy full of that wants to torture you, kill you, flay you, then eat you as a sacrifice to their dark masters isn't a civil liberty?

Geez, sure shows you how much we take for granted...

Brother Coa wrote:I mean following:
Do they have rights to common things in our society? Like to read newspaper, own a car, chose their job, go on strike when the payment is low, go on elections and chose between two governors, liberty to do what they want with their money , own a land, have more than 1 marriage, have PC with fast Internet....

It depends on where and who a person is born into, but still at the end of the day they live in a violent dictatorship that burn populations and worlds that don't comply.

Brother Coa wrote:I think that, no matter how much strong is Imperial regime, Humans have biggest liberty of all other races in 40k.

It depends what you mean by liberty, cos the dark eldar, orks and chaos space marines can do whatever they want when they want, as long as they don't off a more powerful member they can't beat.

Some books mention a news feed, but it's probably highly censored. I doubt there's freedom of speech, since speaking out would make you a heretic.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:The only religious restrictions the Imperium itself imposes are "admit the Emperor is totally awesome, and don't worship the ruinous powers or consort with daemons, because that's just plain stupid."

Mutants are persecuted because they're not humans, and are generally chaos worshiping filth, while psykers are contained to prevent the damage they are capable of.

Wow, you've bitten hard on that Imperial Propaganda. Most mutants are mutants through no fault of their own. If they turn to the dark powers its because The Imperium would not have them.

Kilkrazy wrote:There are several fundamental rights they clearly don't have.

Freedom of religion and conscience.

Worship of the Emperor, and exactly what the entails, is actually very lax compared when it comes to interpretation. In most cases the planets predominant religion is kept intact, with the Emperor as a God-Figure being integrated or 'revealed' as the identity of the god/s of that particular religion.

Worship of Chaos and Xenos gods would, of course, be right out. Though I can't imagine those particular sects of Chaos being tolerated in this world...aside from maybe Slaanesh.

Freedom from persecution based on genetic inheritance. (I would call it racism, but it's to do with being magic or a mutant, not the colour of your skin.)

Again, not sure if psykers would be tolerated in today's society either. Mutants probably would...maybe?

They are taxed without representation.

The Planetary Governor is their representative in this manner. I remember a particular IG novel where the Adminstratum was convinced to cease all tithes and tithes owed due to a major planetary disaster that had halved the Planets habitable area. They refused to give any aid though, which eventually led to rebellion.

Minor things like being able to read the newspaper, or have internet access, are irrelevant if an Inquisitor can bust into your house at any time and execute your entire family.

Officially he can, but that would raise a lot of eyebrows and possibly have him declared a renegade if he really was just a psycopath.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
Wow, you've bitten hard on that Imperial Propaganda. Most mutants are mutants through no fault of their own. If they turn to the dark powers its because The Imperium would not have them.

Some are born mutants, but there are also many who were previously unblemished and were 'gifted' by their dark masters.

Depends on the planet.

the actual Imperial laws are fairly simple,

1: Worship the Emperor

2: pay the Tithe



more specific laws and regulations are mostly planetary.

Governors are appointed by the Imperium, but the Populace of the planet will usually put forth a candidate.


then the planet itself might have it's own planetary government which can be practically any kind as long as they are loyal the the IoM. many are Fuedal in nature having many small Kingdoms, others are Democratic. usually, Fuedal worlds obeey the Imperium by simply Worshipping the Emperor and providing recruits for the IG or the Space Marines.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Again, not sure if psykers would be tolerated in today's society either. Mutants probably would...maybe?

Mutants aren't just tolerated; they are worshiped.

BY THE EMPEROR
*
Thou shalt attend to thy work at the appointed hour
*
Thou shalt seek no reward but the satisfaction of thy Master
*
Thou shalt know thy Duties
*
Thou shalt Obey thy Master in all matters
*
Thou shalt rejoice in thy Service
*
Thou shalt be grateful of thy Master's Favour
*
Thou shalt not make improper use of thy Master's comm-links, nor his las-lines, nor his opticon either
*
Thou shalt be glad of thy Master's punishment, for it is deserved, and it improves thee
*
Thou shalt not speak but Praise of thy Master
*
Thou shalt not look upon the words of the Heretic nor speak of them

~Ecclesiarchal Proscriptions
MCXVII.IV

This always indicated to me that the people of the Imperium don't have a lot of rights.

...?

Emperors Faithful wrote:...?

At least here in the States.

If you haven't been burdened with this down there I'm going to renew my passport.

Yes, if they live in a world where such things are normal.

To an extent. Religion is enforced even on the less pious worlds, because it is a bulwark against Chaos.

No, if they live anywhere else, which is most of the Imperium.

I say that of all races in 40k, Humans have largest freedom. Examples:

1- Human can worship the Emperor or die in his name.
2- Human can sell his soul to Chaos Gods and became powerful warrior and conqueror.
3- Human can join Tau and fight for the Grater Good.
4- Human can join pirate gangs and go hunting some ships.
5- Human can join traders and trade with other races and faction all over the galaxy.
6- Humans can succeed from the Imperium and have their own empire (for a short time at least).
7- Human can join Imperial Guard and go in the galaxy protecting his kind.
8- Human can have possessions, as long as they are not alien and ruinous.
9- Some Humans can join Eldar in their mysterious war for survival.
10- Human can go into politics, and maybe become a ruller of entire planet or system.
11- Human can go into Arbiters and deliver the law to the unjust.
12- Chosen Human can became Space Marine, and go into war to save Humanity from extinction.
13- Humans can enjoy, eat, drink, celebrate, have sex all night and day and live well for most of their lives.
14- Human can became Pariah and go cleanse the galaxy of all life.
15- Human can became Tech Priest and mantain machines all his life.
16- Human can openly speack against heretics, mutants and aliens. Sometimes even against their own rulers.
etc.....................

To me this is more right than of any other race. Emperor enables them this and now they are grateful to him for all eternity.

guys come on

there are world where FREEDOM exists. It might be a freedom like 18th or 19th century, but it exists. This is possible because it's impossible that, with this lot of planets variety, the Adeptus Terra cannot control every single report or situation!

Humanity is free, don't get the general background of the Imperium from the codex. If you read the books you can understand that there is so much diversity in the Imperium, that everything is possible... even the existance of a democracy under Imperium control.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:The only religious restrictions the Imperium itself imposes are "admit the Emperor is totally awesome, and don't worship the ruinous powers or consort with daemons, because that's just plain stupid."

Mutants are persecuted because they're not humans, and are generally chaos worshiping filth, while psykers are contained to prevent the damage they are capable of.

Wow, you've bitten hard on that Imperial Propaganda. Most mutants are mutants through no fault of their own. If they turn to the dark powers its because The Imperium would not have them.

Mutants are either the children of cultists touched by chaos (and thus touched by chaos), normal humans who have turned to chaos (and thus touched by chaos), or from disenfranchised populations in highly radioactive, toxic environments, like underhives, who would already have had the Imperium turn its back on them, and so would be rebels at the best, and chaos cultists as the norm.

Despite that, mutants are still tolerated in some places, like the aggroworld in Eisenhorn where they're employed as farmers, and those were certainly not warped by poisons or radiation, since they wound up looking like the cantina from Star Wars. That's quite obviously the touch of Chaos, but nonetheless they were tolerated because the planet needed the labor. They weren't even slaves, and seemed to have it better than pure human serfs on most worlds, and were still virulently anti-human. That's good enough proof that mutants should be purged.

Actually, mutants are a bit of a mix from both chaotic influence and some gentic failing.

Doesn't that ignore mutants that are solely the result of chaos (cultists that have been "gifted" with mutations, etc) and the ones that quite obviously aren't the result of chaos (Space Marines, Ogryn, etc)?

What about natural mutations that occur from genetic changes?

I'm still inclined to think that most of the imperial culture is quite medieval, based on the fluff which talks about noble houses controlling trade, only highborns getting into politics etc. So unless you happen to born to the right person, on the right world, the majority of the human race is pretty much slave labour in hives, grinding out machinery and produce for the tithes so that those wolrds without the resources can have them.

Sure you might be protected by the PDF or guard, or if you're really lucky, astartes, but they'd probably accept killing you and thousands or millions of your kin just to prosecute a war.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Doesn't that ignore mutants that are solely the result of chaos (cultists that have been "gifted" with mutations, etc) and the ones that quite obviously aren't the result of chaos (Space Marines, Ogryn, etc)?

A lot of it is because of pollution, actually.

Or in the case of nobles, inbreeding.

Melissia wrote:Or in the case of nobles, inbreeding.

Haha! Now I have visions of bucktoothed, 6 fingered "nobles" marrying siblings to increase their inheritance..

Add fat, overly pale, watery-eyed slowed to that.

There's only so much the Famulous can do to fix bloodlines that are already hideously flawed.

lol.....

Comic books are illegal.....20 yrs in solitary...

Sugar is illegal....5 yrs solitary....

I tell you its just a nightmare world in the Imperium

Imperial Quote of the Day: The loyal servant learns to love the lash.