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So I was building some models the other night and wondered to myself what happened to all the left hand people in the future? Did all the races find a way to make everyone ambidextrous? Or was the left handed gene just eliminated via natural selection or other means? I would like to hear some theories on this

I don't see why you think left-handed people no longer exist.

Lefties go to the LoTD

I do believe there are rules on it in Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader. Deathwatch explicitly states all marines are ambidextrous.

Left handed people are called heretical and sorcerers and are killed by the Inquistion.

Well the left handed gene is linked with mental illness so maybe they thought cleansing it from society wouldn't be such a bad idea and the above comment is correct. Possibly.

Or maybe the way the models hold their guns shouldn't be taken as an indication of who's right handed or not. It's more liekly that gw considered it a pain in the neck to sculpt a few left handed models for a box set when all of the other parts work with each other..

No Marines could be lefty, because that could be an impedment in CQB, and they would not be developed that way.

Emperors Faithful wrote:I don't see why you think left-handed people no longer exist.

A) Left hand dominance is a recessive trait
B) I have never seen a totally left handed model. They are either right handed or have some sort of weapon in each hand

And shouldnt every human have brown hair and brown eyes as those are dominant traits and all other recessive traits would either be gone or incredibly rare?

I have a PBS model i modeled with two right hands. I call him Lefty.

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:Left hand dominance is a recessive trait

No it's not. Handedness is not a mendelian trait.

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:And shouldnt every human have brown hair and brown eyes as those are dominant traits and all other recessive traits would either be gone or incredibly rare?

Unless a recessive trait is positively selected against it can never become extinct. So no. Also eye colour is also not a mendelian trait.

@whatwhat- OK I didn't know about handedness being an inherited trait. But Eye color is certainly passed from parent to offspring. I dont see how blue eyes will be around in 10,000 let alone 40,000 years

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:@whatwhat- OK I didn't know about handedness being an inherited trait. But Eye color is certainly passed from parent to offspring. I dont see how blue eyes will be around in 10,000 let alone 40,000 years

Then you can't understand how recessive genes work as it's impossible for them to die out by simple breeding.

And again eye colour is not a mendelian trait. It is possible for any child to have any eye colour no matter what their parents eye colour.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070222180729.htm

Not if one of their parents has the genotype BB, which would be homozygous brown, and the other parent has Bb, heterozygous brown. Draw up a punnett square and you get no blue eyes. Ask any sceince teacher to do that and they will tell you that the possible phenotypes of the offspring are brown eyes.

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:Not if one of their parents has the genotype BB, which would be homozygous brown, and the other parent has Bb, heterozygous brown. Draw up a punnett square and you get no blue eyes. Ask any sceince teacher to do that and they will tell you that the possible phenotypes of the offspring are brown eyes.

The idea that eye colour does not fit in with that model of genetics is a recent development. Try the link I posted above.

And again, even if it did it's impossible for them to die out by the population simply breeding the gene out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardy%E2%80%93Weinberg_principle

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:Not if one of their parents has the genotype BB, which would be homozygous brown, and the other parent has Bb, heterozygous brown. Draw up a punnett square and you get no blue eyes. Ask any sceince teacher to do that and they will tell you that the possible phenotypes of the offspring are brown eyes.

Missing the point entirely.

Half of the offspring will still have the recessive allele, so the gene does not disappear from the population. The recessive phenotype shows up again when heterozygous pairs reproduce. The ability of recessive traits to skip generations actually makes it harder to remove those traits from the population by selective forces. If the trait is not selected against then there's nothing stopping individuals with that trait from reproducing and then all of their offspring will also carry that gene.

The second link makes a better point. The first one is just a study done from a single institution and isn't that well established. Even though its from a well established institution. I get that a gene cant be bred out of a species but doesnt the imperium do, Not so nice things, to people with undesirable traits. Like recessive ones or hemophilia?

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:The second link makes a better point. The first one is just a study done from a single institution and isn't that well established. Even though its from a well established institution. I get that a gene cant be bred out of a species but doesnt the imperium do, Not so nice things, to people with undesirable traits. Like recessive ones or hemophilia?

Take it or leave it, in any case I don't think whether eye colour is a mendelian trait or not really matters to the topic.

And of course the population can be cleansed of undesirable things, that's what your argument has to go on really if you think all left handed people are wiped out in the 41st millennium. That and the fact most models hold guns in their right hands. Arguing it based on genetics wont hold up.

whatwhat wrote:

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:The second link makes a better point. The first one is just a study done from a single institution and isn't that well established. Even though its from a well established institution. I get that a gene cant be bred out of a species but doesnt the imperium do, Not so nice things, to people with undesirable traits. Like recessive ones or hemophilia?

Take it or leave it, in any case I don't think whether eye colour is a mendelian trait or not really matters to the topic.

And of course the population can be cleansed of undesirable things, that's what your argument has to go on really if you think all left handed people are wiped out in the 41st millennium. That and the fact most models hold guns in their right hands. Arguing it based on genetics wont hold up.

Ok. I was just wondering. Maybe it couldve been something interesting that GW couldve added in the fluff. Now I wonder if a left handed sculptor would make left handed models. lol

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:The second link makes a better point. The first one is just a study done from a single institution and isn't that well established. Even though its from a well established institution. I get that a gene cant be bred out of a species but doesnt the imperium do, Not so nice things, to people with undesirable traits. Like recessive ones or hemophilia?

There's a common misconception among people learning about genetics for the first time that recessiveness has anything to do with desireability. Recessive is not bad. Recessiveness has nothing to do with the desireability of the traits linked with recessive genes. All that dominance and recessiveness does is determine which phenotype is expressed in a heterozygous genotype.

Heck, in mammals being female is a recessive trait. No way in hell are we going breed that out of the population any time soon.

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:Ok. I was just wondering. Maybe it couldve been something interesting that GW couldve added in the fluff. Now I wonder if a left handed sculptor would make left handed models. lol

Try asking Michael Perry.

whatwhat wrote:

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:Ok. I was just wondering. Maybe it couldve been something interesting that GW couldve added in the fluff. Now I wonder if a left handed sculptor would make left handed models. lol

Try asking Michael Perry.

Not trying to be "that guy" but uh, who is Micheal Perry? I assume he is a left handed sculptor?

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:

whatwhat wrote:

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:Ok. I was just wondering. Maybe it couldve been something interesting that GW couldve added in the fluff. Now I wonder if a left handed sculptor would make left handed models. lol

Try asking Michael Perry.

Not trying to be "that guy" but uh, who is Micheal Perry? I assume he is a left handed sculptor?

Yeh, he's done a lot of work for GW. He's a right handed sculptor who lost his right hand and now sculpts with his left. ...it was just a fairly bad taste joke from me to be honest.

So. . . . Back on topic. It is easier for GW to model them all as right handed & makes for easier kit-bashing.

Some wolves are left handed shooters.

edit:
Well i don't know abput easier but meh w/e.

Ahhhh ok. Lol that is kinda funny though. Not quite what I had in mind though. I mean a sculptor that has been a lefty all of their life. This is mostly just because I want Left handed models..

Every fifth ork is lefty. Does that count?

Taoofss wrote:Every fifth ork is lefty. Does that count?

Huh. So they are. Now if only i played Orks. Now they just need left handed Dark eldar, Eldar, Space Marine, Imperial guard, Chaos Deamons, Chaos Space Marines, Sisters of battle and tyranids. Not necrons though, they get made on an assembly line they wouldnt be left handed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The really bad part about this is during this entire conversation 3 out of the 7 orks I have in my room, 4 of wych are deffcoptas and therefor have no dominant hand present, are left handed.... And now I feel really dumb

There are no lefties because of economics. There are only like 6 sets of lasgun arms in a cadian shock troops sprue. If they included a left handed option, you'd have a grossly disproportionate number of lefties on the battlefield.

The only way you're going to have lefties in sufficient rarity is to convert them yourself, which I do with my guardsmen. Of ~130 guardsmen, I think 4 or 5 are clearly left-handed, while others could be either (like heavy weapon gunners, for example). That's close to the actual percentage.

whatwhat wrote:

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:

whatwhat wrote:

sum1thtdiesalot wrote:Ok. I was just wondering. Maybe it couldve been something interesting that GW couldve added in the fluff. Now I wonder if a left handed sculptor would make left handed models. lol

Try asking Michael Perry.

Not trying to be "that guy" but uh, who is Micheal Perry? I assume he is a left handed sculptor?

Yeh, he's done a lot of work for GW. He's a right handed sculptor who lost his right hand and now sculpts with his left. ...it was just a fairly bad taste joke from me to be honest.

Didn't he lose it while firing a cannon during a reenactment or some thing like that. The Perry twins they were some of my favorite sculpters.

I think it was just down to cost, and that most of the population are normal and not kack handed

Motorbike accident, I believe.

Some modern armies use rifles which can be easily switched for left handed shooters. Others just train everyone to shoot right handed.

In many sports and fencing it is normally an advantage to be left handed, since most people are used to facing right handed players. In cricket, the entire field has to be reversed when a left-handed batsman comes on.

Handedness is a tendency, not a physical limitation. Anyone can be trained to use their off hand as well as their on hand. For example, although right handed I switched to using the computer mouse with my left hand nearly 20 years ago. Meanwhile my wife, though left handed, always uses the mouse with her right hand.

Not a bike accedent...I was right
Snipp it from Wiki...They look virtually identical, except that Michael lost part of his right arm in 1996, following an accident loading a reproduction cannon during a re-enactment of the Battle of Crécy in France. This was a very serious injury for a right-handed model sculptor and illustrator, but he learned to sculpt and paint with his left hand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_and_Michael_Perry

I shall now look smug