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Mantic lost pledges during dungeon saga in a situation that was very similar to Hawks lost pledges. They both used the same pledge manager and, as far as I can remember, kinda active at around the same time, overlapping the end of the DS period with the start of the DFC periods. No-one has said so for sure, but I imagine it was the same bug at the same time that got both. But that's just a theory.

 TheWaspinator wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
If they'd put it on the front page of the KS somewhere... fail to fill in the PM by the date we say and your pledge is treated as a donation I'd agree it would be down to the folk who failed to fill it in

(although there do seem to have been at least a few vanishing pledges here as well, and it's still the same basic PM that lost all those pledges the first time round, and from the same supplier that lost all those Hawk Dropfleet pledges too)

but since they didn't have that in the T&C they're stuck with the liability to provide the stuff (or of course a refund) whenever Joe Computer Illiterate (or Unlucky) finally gets round to asking where the stuff is

Yeah, I seriously question the legality of that, even if that phrase was included at the start. I'm pretty sure that the money in question would fall under unclaimed / abandoned property law, which usually requires the money to be turned over to the government after a certain period of time if the original owner can not be found.

But it's not unclaimed or abandoned money; it's a pledge with no guarantee of getting anything in return. So, in essence, a donation just as they said.

Yeah, the nature of crowdfunding where things can legitimately be donations likely muddies the water quite a bit. I'm not a legal expert, but I doubt there's been precedent set on the matter nor do I see any legislatures likely to pick up the issue to define it in law. Even in a best-case I doubt they could clearly define the rules of what is and isn't and that's doubly the case when involving international companies. It'd be an interesting hypothetical case to follow, but given that you end up in that status by not really caring in the first place it seems an unlikely suit to be filed barring someone trying to establish a precedent or an estate trying to recover funds on behalf of a deceased backer.

In most cases for Mantic though it's going to be cheaper to simply give them the money back if asked than to fight it so it's likely just a prod to get people to actually do something.

Well they seem to be going down the route that the Fallen Frontiers kickstarter did. That ended up being a huge PR cluster for them. It isn't like they can't figure out where the missing orders are from. They have the list of final emails/names from Kickstarter, they can cross reference that with the list of emails/names to come up with a list of unfulfilled. Then they can email them. Now the people who were late backers, that creates an issue but at the very least hopefully they are paying attention.

Now I can understand after months of delivery, they doing a final shout out to everyone... but saying they are donations is bad move. I had two orders lost with Mantic from previous KS: Kings of War and Dungeon Saga. Kings of War I didn't notice until really late. Both times I had my evidence of my KS and one of the cases I completed the PM, added extra funds and had proof of that. They took care of it without any fuss, even with KoW being months later before I contacted them. I really appreciated it, especially since the issue is on their server. Well rather it happens when they export KS list to their PM, then a second time when they export that list to fulfillment. I'm not sure why, but either way quite a few orders get lost.

I back a lot of KS. I try to keep up on them, but sometimes it can be difficult. If they start going down the route of "Contact us by X date or the pledge is a donation"... they will end up being one less KS that I have to worry about.

I thought this was standard operating procedure for Cmon all ready, if you read there small print that is not shown on the actual kickstarter?

At this point if after KS messages and updates and no response from the registered email when do you draw a line under it?

I've actually had no issues with CMON KS, not sure if others have... at least nothing on the scale that I've heard and seen from Mantic. None of my pledges have actually disappeared, as in after redeeming the pledge manager it vanished. Not completing their PM, I get sent multiple reminders (instead of just one initial mail, then reminders through KS Updates which aren't adequate).

The only issue I had with CMON is if a total was due, change in shipping or somehow the card didn't get go through... I don't receive any notification. I've actually gone back into the PM though, saw a total due, paid it and received my KS (8 months late) but without any issues.

If you haven't bothered to fill out the pledge manager in fifteen months...

But seriously, I'm sure Mantic would still honor your pledge. This is probably just a "hey you've had almost a year and a half to fill out the goddamn pledge manager, you are ignoring our attempts to contact you, perhaps this will light a fire under your ass" reminder to the handful of morons who haven't responded.

New exclusive Blaine by the new guy who is also doing the nameless.

What material will that be? Is it in the Star Saga PM?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What material will that be? Is it in the Star Saga PM?

Yeah it is the Star Saga exclusive I believe it is in Boardgame plastic but could be a collectors edition in the new resin as well not sure.

IIRC they said boardgame plastic, but hey its mantic, theya re not unknown to change things because...

Honestly if it actually looks like that I don't care what they change to do it.

first time I regret not doing the Kickstarter.....

How do we buy the Star Saga Blaine? I don't see him in the pledge manager.

I dunno.. but I confirmed my pledge and I'm in for core + a scenery set.. gonna have to hold out on the expansions until retail :(

Core + 3x space furniture for me.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
How do we buy the Star Saga Blaine? I don't see him in the pledge manager.

You cant get him separately he's part of the core pledge and wasnt offered as an add on.

Well, consider that pledge manager closed, then. Spent less than I thought I would...

The latest Dreadball 2 update is a frightening look into how utterly incompetent people are. Nearly 20% of all the backers haven't filled out the pledge manager?

Count me among those who didn't bother with the pledge manager.

Then again, I put in a buck and kind of forgot about it.

I should think a lot of the folk that threw in $1 just in case the decided to jump in later have spent all their cash on Bloodbowl instead, and abandoned the token pledge here

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
I should think a lot of the folk that threw in $1 just in case the decided to jump in later have spent all their cash on Bloodbowl instead, and abandoned the token pledge here

Assuming all $1 pledges didn't respond, that means that ten percent of people having pledged real money have not responded.
But I cannot find any evidence to support your claim. Theoretically if people pledged $1 for Dreadball 2 hoping for a multi-hour plodding game that rewards you with a headache when you lose the game on a single dice roll, then yeah, they found exactly what they wanted in Blood Bowl

 judgedoug wrote:
The latest Dreadball 2 update is a frightening look into how utterly incompetent people are. Nearly 20% of all the backers haven't filled out the pledge manager?

Dreadball 2 is still going?

I may be one of the guilty if I pledged a dollar and just never bothered to close out the PM when I decided not to partake.

I also pledged $1 just for the updates. I didn't have time or room for the game, but I still wanted to see what was going on.

Question; can't seem to find it on the Mantic site: does the fusion gun have rules?! I have 4 models with fusion rifles, and can't find rules anywhere. Except in Deadzone. Seeing how they have the frag rule in Deadzone, that sounds similar enough to blast...could they just be treated like grenade launchers? Points and ability the same? But would they be more acceptable as a heavy team, an assault specialist, or a basic Enforcer unit specialist?

"The Fear" Nameless character render for Star Saga but Deadzone rules are also coming

 judgedoug wrote:
The latest Dreadball 2 update is a frightening look into how utterly incompetent people are. Nearly 20% of all the backers haven't filled out the pledge manager?

I am among those who didn't do it and can shed some light on what happened here: I filled in the pledge manager, got as far as trying to pay, and it quite simply would not let me. I got server errors thrown at me when clicking the payment button or trying to go through PayPal. I put a support call in with mantic about this while the pledge manager was still open and was told that a reasonable number of people were having this issue and we would get emails once the pledge manager was closed so they could sort out what we all wanted. I got my email about this just before that update went out.

 judgedoug wrote:
The latest Dreadball 2 update is a frightening look into how utterly incompetent people are. Nearly 20% of all the backers haven't filled out the pledge manager?

The "Pledge Manager" system is utter crap.
I don't disagree with your primary assessment, and put it on the backers, but more to the point

- When you have already posted for pledge in what you wanted, and the project runs for over a year plus, then they pop up one day with another pledge manager, after already experiencing 6 months of issues with the Pledge Manager program

- That one already had claimed rewards for in another area fired and forgot a year back. You can't necessarily put it all on the backers, especially when you look at the numbers. 30-50 people, depending on your project, who didn't know about the pledge manager, add on the standard 10% of backers for spoilage.

And I will also add the fact that Mantic is guilty of this same unclear exit strategy/ completion on the project management side. I'll wager that the engineering is solid, but overall execution has a lot to be desired with the Closing processes.

I have added a Project Management discussion on Mantic's issue, from another project. It is an ongoing issue, and I think it is relevant to further use of Project Management of Kickstarter Projects.

You can see exactly where the ... issue... is in the KS projects. The issue is ingrained into Mantic's KS Project Management flow.

https://www.pmi.org/learning/library/manufacturing-support-process-performance-improvements-310

https://www.mbtmag.com/article/2015/06/5-project-management-lessons-manufacturing

https://www.fgould.com/media/resources/files/Project%20Manufacturing%20-%20Full%20Paper.pdf

Once again, it boils down to Mantic's idea that Monty Haul Kickstarter Projects are its self imposed death of a thousand cuts. You can blame the customer for not jumping through hoops, but in the end it is part and parcel to the Management of the unclear end-state of the project- "What is required of backers."

Metal upgrade components are now available separately

Strider Burst Laser - £4.99 http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/warpath/enforcers/product/strider-burst-laser-upgrade-pack.html

Enforcer Breach and Eradicate upgrade kit - £4.99 - http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/warpath/enforcers/product/enforcer-breach-and-eradicate-upgrade-pack.html

Enforcer Heavy Support upgrade kit - £4.99 http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/warpath/enforcers/product/enforcer-heavy-support-upgrade-pack.html

Forge Father Iron Ancestor Doomstorm Upgrade kit - £3.99 http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/warpath/forge-fathers/product/forge-father-iron-ancestor-doomstorm-upgrade-pack.html

I'm glad they put out the burst laser separately I have a load of Striders so I don't need the full model.

Not gonna buy them before they come in Resin