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The GK rumors are pretty interesting, specifically the Warrior Henchmen option. If Henchmen can be taken as Troops, as rumored, practically the entire Sisters Codex can be handled:

Warrior acolyte:

replace laspistol and chainsword with one of...
bolt gun
storm bolter
hot shot lasgun
combi weapon
power sword/or plasma pistol
storm shield
power fist

Any can have....
carapace
power armor
meltabombs

With a few very slight tweaks, this makes:
- Celestians (PA & SB)
- Sisters (PA & Bolter)
- Repentia (PF & SS)
- Arbites (carapace & SB)
- Frateris Miliita (LP & CCW)

They have Rhinos & Razorback Transports (plus SRG & LR).

Plus, they retain:
- Inquisitors, incl. Karamazov
- Impy Assassins
- Death Cult (PW)
- Crusaders (PW & SS)
- Arco-Flagellants (PF & SS)
- Stormies (Carapace & HSLG)
- IG Veterans (Lasgun)

The Penitent Engine becomes a "DreadKnight"

The only real loss is Seraphim, as I don't see the Jump Pack option.


Not bad, IMO. I wonder if GW will pull the WH Codex when Grey Knights comes out.

I'm actually excited about it from a WH player point of view.

I know there are some who will turn this into a rage fest, but c'est la vie.

I doubt they'll pull C:WH, but it does give us options.

I hadn't thought of the Arbites option, which is pretty cool too.


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And to respond to your other question from the GK thread, because of the way you said Sisters 'are nothing but Henchwomen for the Ordos'.

Some folks take SoB rather seriously.


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Lack of Special Weapons (although Combis could help depending on price) will make the 'basic troops' tough to use.

The 'counts as' possibilities all hinge on the points values, which I think you brought up originally in the GK thread.

Presumably, some number of Warriors can carry Special Weapons like the original Henchmen & ISTs.

And, presumably, the costing won't be unreasonable. With any luck, we'll see more of the "infantry gets cheaper" that we saw with practically every other Codex to date.

If so, the "play as" Sisters should be just as competitive as they are today. Probably moreso.


But yeah, I wonder when Melissa will jump in here...

JohnHwangDD wrote:But yeah, I wonder when Melissa will jump in here...

That's what I'm waiting for. Popcorn is at the ready...

Also, have to hope for transports. Although again, with trending, we've seen cheap transports everywhere.

It's clever and, contrary to general belief about GW, actually caters to the counts as and creative folks.

Heck, I might even buy new minis based on it. I always liked the look of GK and to add them into one seamless and legal (one codex) force with my SoB/Henchman/Inq/Guard would be pretty sweet.

Do I still want a pure SoB dex? Of course. Will this tide me over for a bit? Heck yeah.

JohnHwangDD wrote:If so, the "play as" Sisters should be just as competitive as they are today. Probably moreso.

Well, other than Faith Points, Exorcists and a lot of other options that can make them competitive... Yes.

Just Dave wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:If so, the "play as" Sisters should be just as competitive as they are today. Probably moreso.

Well, other than Faith Points, Exorcists and a lot of other options that can make them competitive... Yes.

Faith Points, Seraphim and Exorcists will be a great loss from a fluffy and fun standpoint. :(

But from a competitive standpoint, customizable small units (5 guys, 5 meltaguns, scoring???) in cheap vehicles along with strong H2H troops and potential for good long-range anti tank? Yeah, that could be a good time.

Even if you take what Tanos said for the Meltagun at face value 2xMeltagun Bodies =40 points and 3 bodies = 70 total and a Rhino 35 points is cheaper than the ISTs with ride that you get today.


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Also, I'll reiterate that I doubt this will replace C:WH. Rumors of new Sisters are pretty prevalent and Jes is supposed to still be working on the plastics.

Sisters of Battle *are* Grey Knights Henchmen

Oh dude, now you're just trolling.

I mean yes, by those rules you can use SoBs as =I= henchmen but that's a long way from saying SoBs *are* GK henchmen.

Which actually is pretty cool since SoBs in Inquisition units is long established.

We'll have to wait and see, the whole idea that Henchmen can count as troops is still unconfirmed.

The name is wenches.....

Just Dave wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:But yeah, I wonder when Melissa will jump in here...

That's what I'm waiting for. Popcorn is at the ready...

Maybe she's too busy playing with the "Opposite Gender"?
____

pretre wrote:Also, have to hope for transports. Although again, with trending, we've seen cheap transports everywhere.

It's clever and, contrary to general belief about GW, actually caters to the counts as and creative folks.

Heck, I might even buy new minis based on it. I always liked the look of GK and to add them into one seamless and legal (one codex) force with my SoB/Henchman/Inq/Guard would be pretty sweet.

Do I still want a pure SoB dex? Of course. Will this tide me over for a bit? Heck yeah.

Yeah, Transports should be cheaper than what we've seen in the past. Remember 50-pt Rhinos? Hahaha!

The possibilities with the new Henchmen are awesome.

I'll need to see what the new, plastic GKs look like, but I will note a a few Sisters added to the pile last year.

Of course, we want a new Sisters book. The nice thing is, we may not need one.
____

Just Dave wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:If so, the "play as" Sisters should be just as competitive as they are today. Probably moreso.

Well, other than Faith Points, Exorcists and a lot of other options that can make them competitive... Yes.

Faith & Exorcists aren't what make Sisters competitive. Gaining full-option SM Razors and full-option Special Weapons will keep them just as competitive as they were before.

Besides, Faith points are pretty kludgey. I'm pretty sure they'll go the way of the dodo if/when Sisters get redone, to be replaced with something smoother and more characterful.
____

pretre wrote:Faith Points, Seraphim and Exorcists will be a great loss from a fluffy and fun standpoint. :(

But from a competitive standpoint, customizable small units (5 guys, 5 meltaguns, scoring???) in cheap vehicles along with strong H2H troops and potential for good long-range anti tank? Yeah, that could be a good time.

Even if you take what Tanos said for the Meltagun at face value 2xMeltagun Bodies =40 points and 3 bodies = 70 total and a Rhino 35 points is cheaper than the ISTs with ride that you get today.

Also, I'll reiterate that I doubt this will replace C:WH. Rumors of new Sisters are pretty prevalent and Jes is supposed to still be working on the plastics.

Exactly. Some kind of Faith effect is nice to have, as a Chromey representation of the Fluff, but it's really not necessary. A bump to the statline or even just handing out Stubborn is more than adequate. Seraphim & Exorcists are also nice to have, and add some flavor.

If I could field cheapie 5-man ISTs with dense Specials again, and give them cut-price Razors to boot, I'd be pretty happy with them. 10-pt ISTs with 10-pt Special Weapons in a 50-pt BS4 Razorback for Elites *and* Troops? Backed by bulk Arco Flagellants / Crusaders / Repentia for HtH? Yeah, that'll work just fine.

I read the rumors on the coming Sisters plastics, but no timeline yet. Maybe this year, if they're rumoring models. But you never know. If it's like Dark Eldars, I guess we've got a 3-year window?




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Lord of battles wrote:The name is wenches.....

Hahaha!

-wipes a tear from his eye-

Thank you.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Maybe she's too busy playing with the "Opposite Gender"?

Maybe learned a lesson. I'll leave it alone.

Yeah, Transports should be cheaper than what we've seen in the past. Remember 50-pt Rhinos? Hahaha!

I'm a masochist. I still pay for them.

Besides, Faith points are pretty kludgey. I'm pretty sure they'll go the way of the dodo if/when Sisters get redone, to be replaced with something smoother and more characterful.

Agreed. I don't think anyone is hoping to keep them. I'm hoping for something slick and better. (More defined units with 'Faith' baked in to their rules/role/etc would make it a lot easier.)

If I could field cheapie 5-man ISTs with dense Specials again, and give them cut-price Razors to boot, I'd be pretty happy with them. 10-pt ISTs with 10-pt Special Weapons in a 50-pt BS4 Razorback for Elites *and* Troops? Backed by bulk Arco Flagellants / Crusaders / Repentia for HtH? Yeah, that'll work just fine.

Repentia with 3+ invulnerables. or even better: Mixed crusaders, Arcos and Repentia for wound allocation shenanigans?

I read the rumors on the coming Sisters plastics, but no timeline yet. Maybe this year, if they're rumoring models. But you never know. If it's like Dark Eldars, I guess we've got a 3-year window?

Assuming that Dark Eldar are the outlier and not the middle ground?




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Oh and I wonder what the max # of Jokaero per squad are. 3-12 Lascannon/Multimelta/HF seems unlikely, but hilarious.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Sisters of Battle *are* Grey Knights Henchmen

Oh dude, now you're just trolling.

Listen to the nice man with the katana.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Sisters of Battle *are* Grey Knights Henchmen

Oh dude, now you're just trolling.

If I were trolling, I'd have used a much better title (courtesy of LoB).

Manchu wrote: Listen to the nice man with the katana.

Mine's bigger.

WS/BS3 across the board would be a pretty big nerfstick to the head. If henches come with variable stat loadouts they probably can replicate much of the 'guts' of SoB, but with no faith points and no true special weapons, just combis, they'll play completely different.

Do we have the Henchmen stats yet?

All we need is BS4.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Do we have the Henchmen stats yet?

All we need is BS4.

And Ld 8...

I actually like the Faith Point system though, I don't really see that big of a problem with it it just takes some getting used to. I wouldn't mind if they were replaced with another system, but it would kind of suck if they were just removed entirely.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Sisters of Battle *are* Grey Knights Henchmen

Oh dude, now you're just trolling.

If I were trolling, I'd have used a much better title (courtesy of LoB). .

It is kind of suggesting that a whole army can be invalidated just because of some new Elite choice coming out.
Some might take it the wrong way.

n0t_u wrote:Some might take it the wrong way.

Actually, I have to admit, the more I look at this thread, the more I see it as almost 'bait' or 'trolling', as many have said...

Admittedly, it's a legitimate idea that will likely see use by many using SoB miniatures for such a purpose, but this thread does seem more and more about antagonising a certain user...

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Oh dude, now you're just trolling.

This statement brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department, who brought you this report.

@Dave: Actually, it's mostly a thought exercise, because the Henchmen Warrior has very interesting possibilities that were only touched on in the other thread.

WH has the most diverse list of S3 T3 models, so if those can be covered, that's pretty cool.

I've wanted to field a freakshow for quite a while, but the WH book doesn't make it easy to do so - the Sisters are too good, and the other Elites are too competitive, small, expensive, and limited.

I also want to field the "Imperium combined", and this has a lot of possiblity there, too.

Concept-wise, massed Arcos seem like they'd be very cool.

Gawdammit, this codex needs to come out already. What's the timeline? March? April?

Yeah, I would guess that using SoB as a stand-in for Henchmen may make sense.

But, I seriously doubt GW is going to abandon WH entirely.

Way too expensive. You'd be paying nearly tac marine prices for a guardsman in PA statline. However, you could put tons of special weapons in there.

Interesting comment, since we haven't seen the prices.

Or statlines.

Mnemoch is either in possession of said information or he's making a lot of assumptions.

According to my info, warrior henchmen have guardsman stats except for their Ld. All henchmen have Ld 8.

I just can bring myself to use another codex to field Sisters. I think I'm too much of a purist. I mean, I could have been playing "Blood Sisters", "Battle Bitches" or "Dark Sisters" for awhile now if I really wanted to. I know the henchmen are a close match but... it just doesn't sound appealing to me.

For witch hunters you can get a strength 10 toughness 3 HQ with a 3+ armor save and 4+ invunerable save for only 105 points

The SoB's alliance is with the Ordo Hereticus, not Malleus.

And yes, Acts of Faith are a big part of what made them competetive, as it was them that decided many a battle that might have otherwise been lost due to missing support weapons or Marine toughness. Not that it would be important for proxying, I'd miss them more for background reasons.

These henchman rules still seem kind of cool, even if they wouldn't really be suitable for SoB. I mean, you could just as well put Deathwatch Marines in there, it'd seem just as weird. Or not, depending on one's perception.

<thread terminated: let the ancient dead lie peaceful, lest they rise up to overwhelm us all>