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Even when I take the units available to me to fight with my nids I feel like I still have no real anti mech build.

Sure you can field:

Zoanthrope
w/ their lance weapon (with a psychic test and successfully hitting)

Carnifex
w/ heavy venom cannon (S9 but -1 on the charts and it scatters)

Hive Guard
w/ impaler cannon (S8 24" range) It is decent but lacks range and consistency

MC's expensive and get targeted a lot

Doom
a one shot wonder

genestealers
either dont out flank in time or get shot to death



So it brings me to ask. How can you counter a strong mech list?

Well t-fexs are good?
Depends on what our opponent is taking...multiple land raiders?Then spod-thropes.AV12 fetish?Genestealers and hive guards...Rhino wall?MC rush.IMHO

Taken as an abstract whole with rampant generalizations and compared to other armies out there, Tyranids can't handle mech. It's a huge, HUGE drawback to the army. You already know most of the tricks the codex has in it's bag to fight the metagame and as you've seen they're second rate at best. Just the nature of the game. The only other effective thing I'm seeing that isn't listed is glancing the bejeezus out of something with adrenal gland gaunts/gants. That's pretty much the only other trick up the codex's sleeve.

Edit: T-fexes are not good. Two hundred and sixty five (265!) points for a two shot wonder at BS 3 that's less effective than a lascannon. Stop with this lie already.

You didn't mention if you have problems with a specific type of mech so I will assume the most common: Chimera and Rhino.

Hive Guard might be one of the best anti-mech units in the game. Keep them behind Gants for cover saves and don't be afraid to go to ground if a unit gets hit especially hard. Zopes are nice, but Hive Guard are better vs. the common mech builds.

Next I would go with the screen of the Hive Guard. Hormagants. The Hoppies move faster, on average, then termagants. Normally they can't affect vehicles, but your two choices are adrenal glands or the Swarmlord to give them Furious charge and the shot to glance the heck out of a vehicle or three. A large squad of Hoppies can multi-charge 3-4 vehicles if you are dealing with a parking lot and their scything talons can give them a reroll of 1's on the charge. Most people don't take Hoppies, they take Tervigons and Termagants. Termagants just can't drop the vehicles like a Hoppy can. The Termagant is not as fast, has fewer attacks and can't reroll 1's in combat against a vehicle.

Genestealers can also multi-charge parking lots. Make sure the unit is large enough to survive any initial fire, but screening hoppies will give them a 4+ cover save. The key to both Hoppies and Genestealers is to have them in large units to start with.

If you are worried about outflanking in time with the Stealers you have 2 choices. bring the Swarmlord who adds +1 to reserve rolls and allows you to reroll the outflank side or infiltrate the large stealer squad(s).

At the European Team Championships last summer a Polish Tyranid list was designed to specifically take out mech IG. It consisted of 3 units of Hive Guard, 3 twenty man squads of Genestealers and 2-3 Tervigons. It beat every Mech IG list that was put in front of it. The pairing system made sure he fought at least 5 Mech IG lists that weekend. It can be done.

I was centering in on Mech IG and Mech SM. Hell Even mech tau can give nids some issues. I just lack consistent speed. I fear even a DE mech army if they know my list could eliminate my shooters and then fly around the whole game picking me off little by little.

As always hive guard are your best anti-mech. Most lists dont run av14 due to high points annd can be taken out easily due the the giant target. My opinion if your so worried about mech just grab all the hive guard you can its just gonna increase the chances of takeing down your opponent's parking lot. Park them behind your MC's for los or do your best to corral them.

Hmmm....Hive guards should be good for everything... land raiders?Thats why you have Carnifex!

Hive Guard suck against LR but if you can at least score a glance, you're almmost guaranteed to stop it from shooting for a round. That is a small victory and can save many lives. If there is also a rhino nearby, I'll fire on that instead.

I'm not a Nid player but are Mawlocks any good against vehicles? I know they strike rear armor if they use subterrainian assault against a vehicle and I doubt it would do much say vs a Landraider but what about like Devilfish, Rhinos and Wave Serpents?

@Warboss No the mawlock is only strength 6 ap2 large blast on transports its ok but whatever comes out of it will wreck the mawlock so it's not worth doing. It would be worth poping the transport then blowing up what's inside!

3 teams of hive guard. Stealers with adrenals are good for transports. This will cope will all the transports and up to AV12. For AV13,14 you need to get MCs into CC.

How to get MCs into CC?

Tervigons with a gaunt screen (crushing claws possibly?).

Fast moving MCs such a tryant with wings or harpies.

Carnifex in spore.

Trygons with adrenals. Possibly DS - but need plenty of other targets to keep them alive.

I don't really go much for shooting on fexes - that BS3 is a real pain.

Trygons with Adrenal Glands are amazing for killing vehicles.

7 S7 attacks on the charge with re roll to hits even against vehicles.

I think you are underestimating Zoanthropes as well, take 2 in a Mycetic Spore (160 points) and watch Land Raiders pop.

As has been pointed out most of the Tyranid anti tank is short range. This poses a problem in that there are some things that are critical to kill before they get close, such as Stormravens with dreadnoughts, and raiders with web way portals. Although Tyranofexes are a huge number of points they do provide reliable long range anti tank. They shoot twice and cannot be glanced like a vehicle to stop it from shooting. Harpys with the heavy venom cannons can also fill this role.

No the zoanthropes are not good vs landraider in a spore because they kill the landraider on turn 2 fastest. You can take trevigons who cast the run and shoot psycic power on the zoanthropes. You need to kill the landraider asap. Land raiders not so hard, content = very hard.

I usualy only play against mech and I cant get tyranids to work at all. I have posted several army sugestions here on dakka but people moastly ignore it. How on earth do tyranids kill guard mech or SM mech?

How about a heavy podding list? Devilgaunts and zoanthropes in spores, mawlocks as well? Could work?

Prodromus wrote:Trygons with Adrenal Glands are amazing for killing vehicles.

7 S7 attacks on the charge with re roll to hits even against vehicles.

I think you are underestimating Zoanthropes as well, take 2 in a Mycetic Spore (160 points) and watch Land Raiders pop.

Zoanthropes are effective, only if you're lucky.
math-hammer time:
92% chance of succeeding your psychic test
46% chance that you hit
31% chance that you manage to do something against AV12 or higher

Also.. that's 18" range.. :( I do use Zoanths everytime but mostly for synapse and blasts. As for anti-tank, they're not good.

Zoanthropes are BS4 - so it's about a 61% chance to hit.

I think their real weakness is psychic defence - since I'm an Eldar player who takes runes of warding, they don't worry me much. Against an enemy without such defences, I'd say they are good anti-tank. If I were a tyranid player I might take 1 unit in a pod, and 2 hive guard units.

Niiai wrote:I usualy only play against mech and I cant get tyranids to work at all. I have posted several army sugestions here on dakka but people moastly ignore it. How on earth do tyranids kill guard mech or SM mech?

I've been reading up on the ETC games and a Polish bug list claims to have easily beat at least 5 Mech IG lists over the course of the tournament. The bug list was specifically designed to beat Mech IG (Leafblower) at 1750pts and it apparently did as advertised.

HQ1: Tervigon (160), Catalyst (15), Cluster Spines (0) 175

Elite 1 : 3 Hive Guards 150
Elite 2 : 3 Hive Guards 150
Elite 3 : 3 Hive Guards 150

Troop 1 : Tervigon (160), Catalyst (15), Cluster Spines (0) 175
Troop 2 : 10 Termagants ( 10*5 ) 50
Troop 3 : 20 Genestealers (20*14) 280
Troop 4 : 20 Genestealers (20*14) 280
Troop 5 : 20 Genestealers (20*14), toxin sacs ( 20*3) 340


He started with everything on the board and snaked Genestealer units in long lines after infiltrating. This gave the stealers cover from shooting at any angle and put them in range of the Tervigon's Catalyst. The stealers and Hive Guard wipe out all IG and SM Mech on the table, except maybe a Land Raider. The Tervigons keep both units alive longer and produce scoring units to claim objectives at the end. He went 6-0 vs. Ork Horde, 13 T-Wolf SW and 4 Mech IG lists. His closest battlepoint game was 15-5. This list seems to be an absolute mech killer.

Wow thanks Darth Diggler.

What I do like about it is that it completly messes up the current metgame. I do not know if that is how I would put the list together though.

What do you meen he snakes the genstealer units? It sounds like it is from before the update where 2 units will not give cover to each other. But so bigs quads with feel no pain just seems like a nightmare. It is pretty close to the list I am working on though. I do not know about the trevigons but mawlocks seems like a solid adiction. If he spreads out wide wide wide my stealers will kill him and if he boxes up well then that is very bad too.

Edit: Feel no pain on a squad of 20 is just mean mean mean.

I could see nids with something akin to a haywire blaster. Good at glancing tanks at range but awful against infantry.

Seriously nids are bio right so why isnt EM a more important part of their weaponry.

For me my anti-tank is heavily revolving around CC. I take me obligatory Hive Guard (2-3 Squads of 2) but that' pretty much it for my shooting. Granted I've got a Dev Fex or two with primes attached but that's it at range. My Trygons, Raveners, Genestealers (when I use them), and my AD gants seem to make it work out well for me. I'm honestly still tweaking my final lists but the 20-man genestealer unit is brutal if you get FnP on them before they get shot...

Hulksmash wrote:For me my anti-tank is heavily revolving around CC. I take me obligatory Hive Guard (2-3 Squads of 2) but that' pretty much it for my shooting. Granted I've got a Dev Fex or two with primes attached but that's it at range. My Trygons, Raveners, Genestealers (when I use them), and my AD gants seem to make it work out well for me. I'm honestly still tweaking my final lists but the 20-man genestealer unit is brutal if you get FnP on them before they get shot...

How on earth do you kill tanks in close combat? You run and charge 12, they drive 12 and the rest of his army is shooting at you. How about land speeder flamers? They will team tag you, driving 12 and shooting you with the flamer and frag rockets (defensive) while the one you are chasing is doing the same. Oh, and you hit on 6's. :p and then you need 6 to clance. To glance! I understand why you say it though, because we do not have any good long ranged power. It is a shame. :-(

I will try DarthDigglers list though.

@Niiai

You actually missed the point entirely but that's cool. What your saying oppenents do is easy to say but actually hard to accomplish. The problem most people playing the Nid book have is not looking at it as a unique beast of a codex. They try, just like w/daemons, to make it fit the regular 40k army mold and it doesn't. Gotta look outside the box to make the army work. Not to mention how much more important movment, army selection, and deployment are to Bugs in general.

Just my opinion naturally.

@Hulksmash

Yeah it is hard to do but my regular oponent (standar amrine mech) always do it. It is less eficient against my space wolves though (my 2 armies.) But yeha it is also a big internet rant ebcause regular people do not meet it all that mutch.

I just have a really hard time getting my tyranids to work and I don't get to play that often so I do not have so mutch time to expriment and look around. I agree that tyranids need to think outside the box. Moast Codexes do unless you play marines.

But tyranids especialy with the zynapse, no melta and a lott of odd units running around. I just want an all commers list that also works vs mech. I am so tierd of chasing them and only getting to scratch paint. I want to eat them up and kill them all! I am not saying it is eays but I have sutch a hard hard hard time building a good army list. I like tyranids, I like painting them, I like the fluff. But putting lists together, that is just hard man.

Niiai wrote:@Hulksmash

Yeah it is hard to do but my regular oponent (standar amrine mech) always do it. It is less eficient against my space wolves though (my 2 armies.) But yeha it is also a big internet rant ebcause regular people do not meet it all that mutch.

I just have a really hard time getting my tyranids to work and I don't get to play that often so I do not have so mutch time to expriment and look around. I agree that tyranids need to think outside the box. Moast Codexes do unless you play marines.

But tyranids especialy with the zynapse, no melta and a lott of odd units running around. I just want an all commers list that also works vs mech. I am so tierd of chasing them and only getting to scratch paint. I want to eat them up and kill them all! I am not saying it is eays but I have sutch a hard hard hard time building a good army list. I like tyranids, I like painting them, I like the fluff. But putting lists together, that is just hard man.

Putting list together is not hard. Having the few options for anti-mech work the way they are suppose too is hard. I guess reading all of this; the best all round anti mech for nids is spamming hive guard and/or zoanthropes. It hurts that they both take up elite slots. :(

Are VENOMTHROPES worth taking against mech armies? 5+ cover if I read it correctly.

Niiai wrote:Wow thanks Darth Diggler.

What I do like about it is that it completly messes up the current metgame. I do not know if that is how I would put the list together though.

What do you meen he snakes the genstealer units?

he runs the genestealers in long strands with 51% of the unit in area terrain or behind cover, the idea is that all the leafblower lists are designed to alpha strike your tough targets and blow you off the table in 3-4 turns with long ranged firepower, the tyranid list is designed to have everyone in your face / incc at the top of turn 2, so the leafblower list doesn't have enough time to pick apart 60+ genstealers with feel no pain when its designed to kill 25 space marines.

funny part is if the people running leafblower lists actually made an attempt to balance the army they'd have an infantry blob or two to hide behind That kind of bug list is one of the successful counter-metagame lists.

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't MCs get to roll 2d6 armour pen? MCs are your Melta. Either that, or my Deffdreads have been dying for no reason.

Anvildude wrote:Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't MCs get to roll 2d6 armour pen? MCs are your Melta. Either that, or my Deffdreads have been dying for no reason.

You are very correct. However, what mech player is gonna deploy his army on the 12" line in a pitched battle or up close in a spearhead? None, meaning on average that monstrous creature which does not have fleet will not reach combat with that vehicle until round 3 or 4. That is a lot of shooting to survive as you lumber across the table. This is all based on if you were running with them in the shooting phase and not rolling 1's!

MC's are not ouer melta. Why? Meltas have range, we do not.

The winged hive tyrant will die unless you team up with a tyrant guard and fly around when it gets killed. Tyrants are anyway to expensive to punch open a rhino. Trygons are good because they have fleet and 6 wounds. They are the closest to a bargein we come because they are so awsome for the price (6 wounds, 6 attacks, rerolls to hit and fleet.) Mawlocks will strike in turn 2, if they do not get shot to death they can flee away. Hit and runn away from powerfists and charge whatever they have. However it is max a turn 3 charge meaning hydras/battle cannons will shot 2 to 3 times. Dakka carnifexes in pods are OK (shoot side or rear armour.) Provided of course that the rest of your list also deep strikes (since you want to reduce the shots incoming.) Tyranofex are very good. 2 shots over 2 rounds at 48 " before they get piled down in CC (where they are bad.) Only problem is that they cost 265 points and BS 3. Once they hit they have a good chanche of doing something though.

Hive guards are also nice since they have 24 range. However I curently own hive guards and tyranofexes. Not gaunts and carnifexes. I should think a podding list is the way to go. All pods (gets wing on the tyrant) and start blasting. However besides that it just seem at a loss. I do think the genestealers look good though. But paying 14/17 points for a T4 armour 5+ just seems harsh.

The problem is that lascannons (razor backs and combat squads), rocket launchers (combat squads, landspeeders and long fangs) autocannon (hydras and dreadnoughts) all have a range on 48". Running through a range of 48" just takes a loooooong time.

You guys all forget about the Mawloc. Mawlocs absolutely punish packed vehicles, as any hit (even partial hits) with that big blast template is an automatic s6 roll versus the vehicle's rear armor, even if the unit is a fast skimmer.

My brother uses the deep strike/pop up options to attack armor on their weak side. He does NOT anymore use hive guard, as he uses a reserve based army and the hive guard end up killed in the early turns. He instead has 2 units of podded zoanthropes, plus a mawloc (or 2). The spore pods he tries to deep strike within 6" of the enemy's rear/side, so that those s6 tentacles by the pod can hurt a vehicle. The Zoanthropes are his heavy armor killers, and they do quite well. He only has to immobilize a vehicle actually, as he has a lot of stealers and if the vehicle is immobilized then a stealer assault can finish it off, as all attacks autohit.

In my last GT versus him my hybrid army (with 11 vehicles) was reduced to only 2 tanks by game end. I managed to edge him ever so slightly, and it was my outflanking infantry (Capt. Al's platoon) that won the game for me.

freddieyu1 wrote:You guys all forget about the Mawloc. Mawlocs absolutely punish packed vehicles, as any hit (even partial hits) with that big blast template is an automatic s6 roll versus the vehicle's rear armor, even if the unit is a fast skimmer.

My brother uses the deep strike/pop up options to attack armor on their weak side. He does NOT anymore use hive guard, as he uses a reserve based army and the hive guard end up killed in the early turns. He instead has 2 units of podded zoanthropes, plus a mawloc (or 2). The spore pods he tries to deep strike within 6" of the enemy's rear/side, so that those s6 tentacles by the pod can hurt a vehicle. The Zoanthropes are his heavy armor killers, and they do quite well. He only has to immobilize a vehicle actually, as he has a lot of stealers and if the vehicle is immobilized then a stealer assault can finish it off, as all attacks autohit.

In my last GT versus him my hybrid army (with 11 vehicles) was reduced to only 2 tanks by game end. I managed to edge him ever so slightly, and it was my outflanking infantry (Capt. Al's platoon) that won the game for me.

The problem with Mawlocs is that the rules for template weapons state that unless the center hole of the marker is over the target vehicle,the weapon's S is halved. Half of S6 is 3,so it gives you no opportunity at all to drop multiple vehicles with the Mawloc,unless your opponent has bunched up so much that they can't move their vehicles out of the way of the template. The other issue is,the Mawloc doesn't have protection from Deep Strike mishaps involving terrain or the table edge,so if your oppenent is hugging the backline of their deploy zone,there's a good likelihood that he scatters off the table and gets delayed,at best.