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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 09:50:25
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Powerful Chaos Warrior
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I came to 40k (and minigaming/wargaming in general) through roleplaying games and boardgames, both of which have a decent amount of women who play.
It seems to me that 40k (if not all of wargaming) is largely a boys' club in comparison to those two hobbies I mentioned above. I play with a local group of friends which are all guys, but more than that it's the forum, podcast, blog, and local game store cultures that have given me the impression that 40k/wargaming is almost exclusively a man's hobby.
Am I incorrect in this observation? I want anyone to speak up in this thread, but in particular, I'd like to hear from women and have our conversation revolve around what they have to say. Are there 40k/wargaming podcasts & blogs out there by women, or for women in particular?
Thanks!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 10:36:03
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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I think the silence is a solid "No"
There is one or 2 women on dakka alone I know of, Melissia and Lunahound, (shes a chick right?) and I have never seen a female in games workshop or anything.
I guess its just to nerdy. There all out busy having sex :| (thats a quote, dont take offense)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 10:47:47
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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There was a woman/girl at the wargaming society when I was in university. Think she played the Knights army in WHFB.
Other than that I've not seen many women playing GW games other than a few here on Dakka (there are about 4-5 ladies here that I know about off the top of my head).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 10:51:47
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Kovnik
Bristol
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Well its a very guy thing when I think about it. 'Hey, lets go paint up some models and think use them to simulate a extremly gorey, bone breaking battle for humanity's last hope!.... Why is that Carnifex pink?' Just doesn't seem to work  But that withstanding I know many girls who indulge in 40k and WHFB, but more towards the painting side which can be done easily at home, away from the stares of a thousand boys going 'Orkz don't paint their trukks pink and gold...' Edited to fix most of my early morning imperfections.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/24 10:52:21
Nerivant wrote:The Custodes are the reason Draigo is staying in the Warp.
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I cant wait until i team up with a cron player an kill a land raider with a lasgun.
Black Templars- Nothing makes you manly like unalterable AV 14! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 11:07:53
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon
Tied and gagged in the back of your car
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Considering that Warhammer, especially 40k, is a game that markets machismo in spades (seriously, Space Marines are so bro that it's actually disturbing), it's not exactly a hard thing to comprehend. Even the women are manly. Sure, the sisters of battle may be sisters, but they're screaming maniacs carrying weapons that could be described as massive boxy phalluses.
There are very few games out there that bottle and sell the image of masculinity to the extent that 40k does. Part of its allure (and in many cases, to imasculated and outcast individuals, commonly referred to as nerds, and considered to be fairly low on the social food chain, at least during adolescence, which is the target age for 40k) to the core audience is just how absurdly masculine (and hence, dominant, a feature which many of the previously mentioned 'nerds' lack in their real lives) it is.
Really, it's like wondering why Barbie doesn't sell to boys (HIS NAME IS KEN AND HE'S AN ACTION FIGURE! LEAVE ME ALONE MOM!).
I'll actually be doing a 12 page paper later this summester on the topic (well, part of it will be on this topic. I'll mainly be writing about gender, sexuality, race, and individuality as it pertains to interactive entertainment). Maybe I'll post it online for you guys to read too.
Oh, and it doesn't help that an overwhelming number of players for some reason forget how to bathe themselves either. Seriously guys. A little soap doesn't hurt.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/02/24 11:09:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 11:16:01
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Krazed Killa Kan
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From my personal observations I have noticed that despite being in the minority, there are a fair few women who indulge in warhammer, and several were regular visitors to the FLGS, however the main difference I have noticed is that whereas men tend to focus on the gaming aspect, women tended to focus on the painting and modelling aspects of the hobby (in fact, I have never seen any females partaking in a game (not saying they don't, just not seen any myself).
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DR:80S---G+MB---I+Pw40k08#+D+A+/fWD???R+T(M)DM+
My P&M Log: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/433120.page
Atma01 wrote:
And that is why you hear people yelling FOR THE EMPEROR rather than FOR LOGICAL AND QUANTIFIABLE BASED DECISIONS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE MAJORITY!
Phototoxin wrote:Kids go in , they waste tonnes of money on marnus calgar and his landraider, the slaneshi-like GW revel at this lust and short term profit margin pleasure. Meanwhile father time and cunning lord tzeentch whisper 'our games are better AND cheaper' and then players leave for mantic and warmahordes.
daveNYC wrote:The Craftworld guys, who are such stick-in-the-muds that they manage to make the Ultramarines look like an Ibiza nightclub that spiked its Red Bull with LSD. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 13:38:05
Subject: Re:40k: an old boys club?
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Bounding Dark Angels Assault Marine
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Actually GW once featured in a "nerdy" spred in Front magazine, with a right hotty standing outside. What a day that was.
that said, there arnt many
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 13:38:07
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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My girlfriend plays W40k and she was a phenomenom in a notsFLGS (especially before she was my GF). At first everybody thought "oh another girl that buys stuff for her boyfriend/brother/etc.", but after a while when she started to ask about different things gameplay wise, reciting stats and point costs everybody was speechless.
And yeah I have to admit, 40K is mostly a boys club if it comes to wargaming, there are some exceptions, but it probably is 1% of all wargaming community.
Its different for WFB though. I could name a few girls that play/played and not just painted. Most of them are crazy though, wouldn't want to get near without a 2 foot long stick.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 13:53:25
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
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I think you have your answer judging from the amount of posts by female users.
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actiondan wrote:According to popular belief I cannot use drop pods because only the Imperium can organize itself enough to put 10 men in a container and fire it at a planet. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 14:31:31
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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It is, and a lot of male players (or perhaps a few very vocal ones) seem to want to keep it that way...
I recall a poster on the BoLS Lounge who hated women who tried to get into 40k because they reminded him of his ex-wife, and he wanted to discourage women from entering the game because he didn't want to hang around us.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/24 14:36:47
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 14:55:54
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Krazed Killa Kan
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Melissia wrote:It is, and a lot of male players (or perhaps a few very vocal ones) seem to want to keep it that way...
I recall a poster on the BoLS Lounge who hated women who tried to get into 40k because they reminded him of his ex-wife, and he wanted to discourage women from entering the game because he didn't want to hang around us.
That is more of a personal problem he has and not a representation of the general populace, I could say that about 90% of wargamers I know would have absolutely no qualms with females at the FLGS. It is unfortunate that the ramblings of the few can discourage so many.
Another note seems to be that the internet blows this up somewhat, In my experience, if a female walks into the store and is obviously not looking for something for someone else, then everyone seems to have a normal attitude,i.e. they act normal, talk normal, think normal (not a nosebleed or poorly hidden boner in sight). Same event in a forum post, and all of the sudden the entire store is OMGHAWTGAMERCHICK!!!!11!11!!*nosebleed*
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DR:80S---G+MB---I+Pw40k08#+D+A+/fWD???R+T(M)DM+
My P&M Log: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/433120.page
Atma01 wrote:
And that is why you hear people yelling FOR THE EMPEROR rather than FOR LOGICAL AND QUANTIFIABLE BASED DECISIONS FOR THE BETTERMENT OF THE MAJORITY!
Phototoxin wrote:Kids go in , they waste tonnes of money on marnus calgar and his landraider, the slaneshi-like GW revel at this lust and short term profit margin pleasure. Meanwhile father time and cunning lord tzeentch whisper 'our games are better AND cheaper' and then players leave for mantic and warmahordes.
daveNYC wrote:The Craftworld guys, who are such stick-in-the-muds that they manage to make the Ultramarines look like an Ibiza nightclub that spiked its Red Bull with LSD. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 14:59:57
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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I think you have just pointed out a nutter there Melissia. I don't think that kind of view is representetive of the general male gamer population at all (especially given how many threads there are of men saying they wished their wives/GF's played).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 15:14:54
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Consigned to the Grim Darkness
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Leigen_Zero wrote:Melissia wrote:It is, and a lot of male players (or perhaps a few very vocal ones) seem to want to keep it that way...
I recall a poster on the BoLS Lounge who hated women who tried to get into 40k because they reminded him of his ex-wife, and he wanted to discourage women from entering the game because he didn't want to hang around us.
That is more of a personal problem he has and not a representation of the general populace, I could say that about 90% of wargamers I know would have absolutely no qualms with females at the FLGS. It is unfortunate that the ramblings of the few can discourage so many.
Another note seems to be that the internet blows this up somewhat, In my experience, if a female walks into the store and is obviously not looking for something for someone else, then everyone seems to have a normal attitude,i.e. they act normal, talk normal, think normal (not a nosebleed or poorly hidden boner in sight). Same event in a forum post, and all of the sudden the entire store is OMGHAWTGAMERCHICK!!!!11!11!!*nosebleed*
It only takes one unfortunate example to scare someone away from an establishment that they don't have any strong need to go into...
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The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 15:30:39
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws
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ive seen a couple of women playing in my local gw and never really batted an eyelid.i'd love my wife to do a spot of painting or even gaming.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 15:33:17
Subject: Re:40k: an old boys club?
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Thrall Wizard of Tzeentch
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Around my neck of the woods..Men do greatly out number the ladies around however. Seeing a female player playing is not at all an uncommon sight.
And they are general expedited just like anyone else. But I do understand how some people can be apprehensive about female players at first..Since really I know most of us have ran into a girl who runs around saying "tehehe I am so nerdy aren't I guys? hehe everyone pay attention to me" and thus that really being the only reason they are around.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 15:57:56
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Powerful Chaos Warrior
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Fafnir wrote:Considering that Warhammer, especially 40k, is a game that markets machismo in spades (seriously, Space Marines are so bro that it's actually disturbing), it's not exactly a hard thing to comprehend. Even the women are manly. Sure, the sisters of battle may be sisters, but they're screaming maniacs carrying weapons that could be described as massive boxy phalluses.
There are very few games out there that bottle and sell the image of masculinity to the extent that 40k does. Part of its allure (and in many cases, to imasculated and outcast individuals, commonly referred to as nerds, and considered to be fairly low on the social food chain, at least during adolescence, which is the target age for 40k) to the core audience is just how absurdly masculine (and hence, dominant, a feature which many of the previously mentioned 'nerds' lack in their real lives) it is.
Really, it's like wondering why Barbie doesn't sell to boys (HIS NAME IS KEN AND HE'S AN ACTION FIGURE! LEAVE ME ALONE MOM!).
This post seems very much on point.
To be fair (to my modest intellect) though, my post wasn't saying, "I don't understand! Why aren't there more women who play 40k?", but rather, "It seems not many women play 40k; is this true outside of my tiny sphere of observation? Further, I'd like to hear what any women who do play have to say about how male-dominant the hobby is."
I probably should have just, you know, said that.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/24 16:00:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 17:47:12
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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There are at least a half dozen regular posters on Dakka whom are female that I can think of. They usually do seem to be more into painting than playing, but that's not exclusively the case.
IRL, I've been to a lot of GTs and other large events, and IME events with women playing are fairly infrequent. The ones I have seen are usually 1-2 women in a given event. Some stores do have females among the gaming regulars.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 18:53:51
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp
York/London(for weekends) oh for the glory of the british rail industry
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From the GW stores in the UK i have been into Hull and my own Leamington Spa one have either female members or staff and the recent daily entries on the UK GW site has segments from a female store manager and several 'eavy metal painters and golden daemon UK winners are women.
With the increased social acceptance of hobbying and nerdy stuff among women and the population in general it is safe to say that the number of female gamers and GW employees will increase, but as a hobby that is based on wargaming it will still be a 'boys and their toys' hobby.
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Avatar 720 wrote:Eau de Ulthwé - The new fragrance; by Eldrad.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 19:09:55
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Dominar
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There are women who play 40k. There are women who paint and model in various miniatures hobbies. Women, in general, I would say do not game or model or paint any better or worse than the average guy gamer.
But they are still a tiny minority in a male-oriented and male-dominated hobby.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 19:50:12
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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I think in the UK the attitude towards nerds and geeks is worse than in the U.S, I think this leads to the Hobby being more socially unnacceptible as a whole which in turn puts more people off including women, The only girl who I see in my local GW other than mums/sisters GFs etc is a painter only. I think the true route into the Hobby would be through some more of the well written fluff from BL (Horus Heresy and a few of the other good BL books), loads more girls are into comic books and video gaming than wargaming, I think this is because as some other posters have quite rightly pointed out, on the outside the hobby is very adolescent-masculine.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 19:56:56
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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RogueSangre
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The local GW used to have a female employee who still comes around every so often. As is the trend, however, whe pretty much focuses on painting.
There's another girl who comes in (of her own volition) every so often. She's probably 16 or so, and doesn't paint or play. She just likes to hang out and awkwardly flirt with guys who really aren't into jailbait. I guess that just comes with it being a mall store, though...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/24 20:05:03
Subject: Re:40k: an old boys club?
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Dakka Veteran
Eye of Terra.
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When I read the title of this thread I assumed someone was refering to certain gamers not allowing newcomers into their elitest fold.
As the term "Old Girls Club", though not as common, is used as well, I was suprised to find the thread had turned to sexism.
Our group has had a problem with getting girls interested until recently. For the most part, the only females who would attempt to play were girlfriends or wives and then only occassionally. We eventually had this problem solved for us by having a woman from a local college shatter our expectations with her play and I must say wonderfully painted miniatures. This has created a not unexpected "upsurge" in girlfriend/wife attendance at our various local man-caves.
...and no, no one has slobbered on her or asked her to have their baby.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/25 10:23:33
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot
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I mean men do have some sort of psycological need to spend time doing man things away from women and alll that but it just seems unfortuneate that the hobby has become one of those things. I think to alot of girls I'm the only girl is a bit offputting.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/25 13:45:13
Subject: Re:40k: an old boys club?
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Monstrous Master Moulder
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And men like playing with soldiers, women don't. It's a phsycological thing. Automatically Appended Next Post: Of cause that's a generalisation
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/02/25 13:45:35
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/25 13:47:46
Subject: Re:40k: an old boys club?
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Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon
Tied and gagged in the back of your car
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winnertakesall wrote:And men like playing with soldiers, women don't. It's a phsycological thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of cause that's a generalisation
Really, there's a lot of biological, psychological, and sociological factors involved.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2011/02/25 14:09:27
Subject: 40k: an old boys club?
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Lord of the Fleet
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Jaon wrote:There is one or 2 women on dakka alone I know of, Melissia and Lunahound, (shes a chick right?)
And Nosferatu. But the point still stands - wargaming generally (not just 40K) is a much more exclusively male pastime than role playing games. Automatically Appended Next Post: winnertakesall wrote:And men like playing with soldiers, women don't. It's a phsycological thing.
I'm not sure I'd agree it's that simple. My airsofting group has a good number of female regulars although, to be fair, that is quite unusual. I think the problem is that male dominated groups (especially when many of those males are less socially able) are fairly unwelcoming of new people generally and women in particular. My airsofting group has a significantly different make-up than most (a good half of us are 30+, kids, etc) which creates a very different environment.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/02/25 14:14:26
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