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a little while ago i was thinking about how chaos space marines made more troops. my friend told mw it depends witch.

so i'm going with thousand sons. how are more thousand sons made

Well, when a daddy Chaos Space Marine loves a Mommy Chaos Space Marine very much... Well, they don't have to be in love, they could just be really drunk... but that aside...

I used to think they just had however many came over to chaos during The Heresy. In Storm of Iron though chaos steals a ton of gene-seed, so I'm guessing I was wrong about that.

Fabius Bile clones them for a huge price

That, and Iron Warriors make new SM with a system called Daemonculaba, and there's always new SM falling into Chaos and turning into renegades.

Concerning he 1K Sons it does pose a good question on how more are made, Arhiman certainly isn't casting that spell every week or so to keep the forces up, but before that, can you really kill a 1K Sons marine? It's just animated armor so yeah it can be destroyed, but killed seems like a more odd question to throw at it.

About the Thousand Sons

Thousand Sons aside, I think most Chaos Marine replacements are "harvested" during the Black Crusades and by "gene seed" raids on homeworld/bases as has occured now and again. Lastly, there have been "converts" after the Heresy which I imagine has filled some vacancies in the Black Legion at the very least.

It varies.


some Legions are able to make completely new CSMs using geneseed and recruits(usually kidnapped)

some CSMs might be particularly skilled humans who get blessed by the gods enough to be able to wear the PA of a CSM.

then there are Renagades.


the Thousand sons are the only legion that doesn't grow. but then they are the only legion that can't really be destroyed. a fallen son just has to wait for his soul to get plucked out of the empyreen by a sorceror and put back into PA. their souls are protected from the deamons by Tzeench.

ok cool so i now know that thousand sons don't grow or decrease they just get put back in their armour just like necrons. but you guys keep talking about gene seed... what is it

It is what turns a human into a space marine.
I think it is part of their primarch.

Geneseed, Progenoids proper, are 2 organs that are implanted into a initiate when he is proven worthy of becoming a Space Marine.

the Geneseed allows the other implants to function properly. it also, more importantly, will grow a new set of implants when it is removed(allowing more space marines to be created)


the Geneseed contains the diluted genetic makeup of the Primarch. the fewer generations of marines between that geneseed and the original, the greater the resemblence between the marine and the primarch.

I would think that with the Thousand Sons one could simply summon the souls of the fallen back to the armor. Some of my other theories have been voiced.

They steal gene seed from imperial astartes they kill. It's in the Chaos Marine Codex.

They also can gather recruits by corrupting loyalist space marines.

When Huron Blackheart took the Wolf of Fenris several of those space wolves turned on their brothers, and surrendered to Huron. For their treachery they were granted command of the ship.

If a marine force losses to a chaos force I imagine it would be quite demoralizing, and that they would be more vulnerable to corruption themselves, they may be super human, but they are still human.

onto more speculation:

I can also imagine a Chaos commander taking his loyalist POWs into the eye of terror or Maelstrom, allow the extended exposure to warp energies to corrupt their minds and bodies, and in this way replenish some of their war band.

Desperation is a powerful tool of Chaos, I could imagine some of the leaders of prouder and more violent chapters (Space Wolves come to mind) selling their soul to Khorne for the strength to defeat their enemies (Scorpion King syndrome). IE a Space Wolf Commander losses to a huge ork WAAAAAGH, the commander and a handful of marines escape, and in an act of desperation the commander prays for the strength to defeat his enemies, Khorne hears his prayer and offers to trade command of his army for the Space Wolves Soul. You get the idea. Once hes gone chaos, he would either become a great warlord- attracting followers, or join up with a different one, as the Imperium would never take him back.

While the corruption of an entire chapter is silly, in isolated instances it does happen to ships lost in warp or on battle fields where chaos is winning and the usual mechanisms for keeping marine's loyalty have been eroded.

I always assumed that deamon possesion had a hand in it or the whole gene seed concept. The fact of SM turning during a loosing battle i never considered because i thought they always fought the death

While I've never heard about marines turning to chaos because they're about to lose a battle, there are many examples of squads or even whole chapters turning because of sneaking taint, much the same way that Horus turned. Turning Imperial Guard companies is another thing entirely, though, and many have turned because of cowardice.

SgtSixkilla wrote:While I've never heard about marines turning to chaos because they're about to lose a battle, there are many examples of squads or even whole chapters turning because of sneaking taint, much the same way that Horus turned. Turning Imperial Guard companies is another thing entirely, though, and many have turned because of cowardice.

and I quote from the chaos codex concerning the capture of the Wolf of Fenris. This passage comes from the end of the story, after the Red Corsairs outnumber the Space Wolves on board.

Chaos Codex, pg 59 wrote:On the starboard side, it seemed at first that the Red Corsairs might be held out of the gun decks. Then without warning, several of the Space Wolves turned on their brethren, attacking them from behind before surrendering to the mercy of the Blood Reaver. They recanted their oaths to the Space Wolves, Leman Russ and the Emperor, and swore new pledges of loyalty to Huron. As a reward for their treachery, Blackheart granted them command of the Wolf of Fenris.

... so much for the wolf heat being incapable of corruption as somebody foolishly mentioned in another thread

The person who said that SW could never be corrupted obviously didn't know what he was talking about...
Chaos legions receive reinforcements in a number of ways
The Tsons get reanimated
Other legions can create more marines (though the fail rate is horrific)
Fabius Bile can clone marines
Traitors will bolster their ranks although not many (the number is exaggerated)

purplefood wrote:
Fabius Bile can clone marines

Bile doesn't just clone Marines he has also found a way to make MEQs through Science and Warp Magic.

I have a theory for the creation of more CSM that revolves around the Traitors being able to create Marines from adult aspirants as well, rather than just being able to take them between 12 and 20 something. This would involve the use of Gene-seed and Warp Magic, essentially using the Warp itself to force older people's bodies to accept the Gene-seed.

Well a lot of legions have a lot of CSM to begin with, because they're not as active as regular space marines, and were never broken up either.

It's never been really fully explained, but just because they're chaos doesn't mean they're all super crazy. They recruit too, and also steal the gene-seeds of other chapters, it's just not as big of a deal to them as regular space marines.

Henry Zhou's new book "Blood Gorgons" fits into this question very nicely (both from raw recruits and amalgamation).

I have to say I really like Doc Thunder's genetic marines idea (even if they are females ).

I swear I read somewhere a description where captured loyal marines get stitched into a huge womb-thing that feeds Chaos into them. I think it was a BL novel.

Anyone clarify?

Sgt.Snail wrote:I swear I read somewhere a description where captured loyal marines get stitched into a huge womb-thing that feeds Chaos into them. I think it was a BL novel.

Anyone clarify?

Dead Sky Black Sun by Graham McNeil, part of the Ultramarines eries.
Although all the daemon things got destroyed.

Hi Dark
Daemonclubba? Is that anything to do with wot Fafnir said about getting really drunk and...

Well something similar happens in the third ultramarines novel with giant wombs and stolen gene seed

steeds of war wrote:Well something similar happens in the third ultramarines novel with giant wombs and stolen gene seed

It's not similar... it's the exact same thing.

There is a short story in Let the Galaxy burn about a space marine chapter who all commit suicide to deny the enemy their geneseed....Then the apothecary gets knocked out and wakes up in a CSM apothecaries lab and has his geneseed extracted while still alive.

Doctadeth wrote:There is a short story in Let the Galaxy burn about a space marine chapter who all commit suicide to deny the enemy their geneseed....Then the apothecary gets knocked out and wakes up in a CSM apothecaries lab and has his geneseed extracted while still alive.

Actually if that's the story i think it is the 2nd company of a chapter are wiped out and the apothecary together with some scouts repair a thunderhawk and gets all of the gene-seed to safety. He however is left behind and is captured and has his gene-seed removed whilst he is alive.