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What are the top tier armies i know Mech Gaurd is one of them. But the thing that I'm wondering is what are the other top tier that win tornaments?

My guess would be IG, BA, then SW roughly in that order, but I don't claim to be an expert.

SW before Blood Angels i would say.

Actually you're probably right about that

That sounds about right BA and SW but are there some non imperium armies that are top tier.

shadeyaces wrote:That sounds about right BA and SW but are there some non imperium armies that are top tier.

Short answer is no.

Doesn't mean that you don't see orks destroying IG in local or national tourneys.

I swear to baby Gandalf that this exact thread gets created at least once a week.

OP: Don't be lazy, do some reading before you post, especially on such a subjective question with no right answer.

The short answer: The army isn't the important factor, the player using it is. Pretty much *every* codex can win a tournament, be it a local event, an RTT, or a GT - it depends on who's running the army. The only real exceptions are Witch Hunters and Necrons - both of which have enough drawbacks (due to dated codexes) that even in skilled hands, if they run up against the wrong army in the right hands, there's not much they can do.

There's not a spacewolf player in existence that I fear. I'd bet money blindly going into any game against Space Wolves that I'll win. Does that make my codex better? No. It means I'm confident in my skills.

Don't get overly concerned about whether BA is better than SW, or IG better than BA, or whether Orks can stand up there with them.....the answer to all of those questions is: It depends on the player.

If you take Orks to a tournament and don't win, its because you're either a bad player, or you played someone better than you. If you take Blood Angels to a tournament and lose against Space Wolves, it doesn't mean that Space Wolves are better than Blood Angels, it means that the SW player is better than the BA player - or at least was in that game (flukes can happen).

And before anyone digs in....your list is a reflection of the player. If you bring a bad list and lose, it isn't the lists' fault, its the fault of the person who brought the bad list. Why are my Necrons undefeated? Its not because they're awesome. I promise. I could give my Necron army to another player and beat the $*#&# out of it with either of my other armies.

So again, its not about codexes being more powerful than others, its about the players utilizing them. Space Wolves winning a bunch of tournaments doesn't mean Space Wolves are an awesome codex - it means that there are good players playing Space Wolves. Space Wolves have only won a single tournament I've attended (the Nova Open last August), and I didn't play the winner. Blood Angels have never won a tournament I've attended. Mech IG have only won one tournament I've attended.

Players, not codexes.

OK what should have posted is what are the top teir armies that are winning tournaments.

look at the tournament results. They're posted online. You can see who won.

In the meantime, ponder and be enlightened:

Kilkrazy wrote:A challenging army will spur a clever player to learn and adapt, while a weak player will drop them in favour of something "stronger".

Do you know what website that would be or will I to seach for it.

shadeyaces wrote:OK what should have posted is what are the top teir armies that are winning tournaments.

I still don't think you follow.

It isn't the armies.

If Hulksmash brings Space Wolves to a tournament, Space Wolves win that tournament. If he brings daemons to a tournament, daemons win that tournament. If he brings foot-slogging IG to a tournament, foot-slogging IG win that tournament.

There's no correlation between the effectiveness of a particular codex and tournament standings.

There *is* a correlation between perceived effectiveness of particular units over other codexes, and an increased number of people playing that codex, which in turn results in an increased showing for that codex in tournaments....which in turn means that by sheer dint of numbers, that codex is going to win more tournaments. If 30% of players who show up at a tournament are playing Space Wolves...there's a decent chance that Space Wolves are going to win.

Tournament standings are mostly a reflection of what codexes are popular, not what codexes are the best. That comes down to players. If I were able to take my Necrons to every tournament, make every GT, and win them all - and the tournament standings show that Necrons are kicking face, does that make them a good codex? Absolutely not.

If you want a codex you can win tournaments with, pick ANY codex except for Necrons and Witch Hunters. If you aren't very good, also skip Chaos Marines and Tyranids. Beyond that, it comes down to the person playing, not the codex they're using.

I'm just asking what are the top armies that are winning tournaments I know it is the player who is winning the games. My question was what are the top tier armies that are winning tournaments not the player who is winning the games.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=13200005a

shadeyaces wrote:I'm just asking what are the top armies that are winning tournaments I know it is the player who is winning the games. My question was what are the top tier armies that are winning tournaments not the player who is winning the games.

The generally accepted top tier is: IG, SW, BA
The generally acceted second tier is: SM, Orks, demons
And a third teir of tournament winning armies is: eldar and chaos

That said, as Dash points out, it's hard to tell if SW win more tournaments because the book is inherently stronger, or if more people play it.

For how rare the army is, Demons win a lot, as do certain eldar builds (foot eldar in particular).

IG, SW, and BA are considered top tier because people win tournaments with them, and they can each field mulitiple strong builds.

If I were to list the codices I feel have a solid chance to win a tournament, I'd go with: SM, IG, BA, SW, Orks, Chaos, Eldar, Nids, and Demons. Tau, Necrons, Witchhunters and Demonhunters have too many bad match ups, while DE is still too new to really apprise. Black Templars and Dark Angels just got a big upgrade, and may become reliable tournament armies, but weren't before hand.

Something else to look for, that the results alone don't tell you, is what armies are present at any particular event? IG may be powerful, but there are many stores that don't have a single IG player. Tyranids may be mediocre, but if four tyranid players show up to a ten man tournament, there's a good chance they'll place well.

Thank you for all your posts and thank you to Polonius for saying some of the top tier.

In response to Shadey's thread, Tyranids and Chaos are top tier in the right hands. But its not like theyre mech guard or space wolves that could be won with by a chimp with down syndrome (Dont care if this insults anyone because if you get offended by this your talking this site too seriously)
@ Dashofpepper You should fear the wolves, they can quite easily over power pretty much anyone, arrogance like that is gonna make you lose. Fast. Dont kid yourself, GW did make the codexes for Wolves, angels and guard extremely broken. If you disagree you must not play good players very often. Maybe you should stop hoping onto these threads and being a critical SOB. It isnt fun to be bashed is it?

Feeder_of_life wrote:In response to Shadey's thread, Tyranids and Chaos are top tier in the right hands. But its not like theyre mech guard or space wolves that could be won with by a chimp with down syndrome (Dont care if this insults anyone because if you get offended by this your talking this site too seriously)
@ Dashofpepper You should fear the wolves, they can quite easily over power pretty much anyone, arrogance like that is gonna make you lose. Fast. Dont kid yourself, GW did make the codexes for Wolves, angels and guard extremely broken. If you disagree you must not play good players very often. Maybe you should stop hoping onto these threads and being a critical SOB. It isnt fun to be bashed is it?


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Lmao i called him a sister of battle, AKA a woman

Wow, dude, first I see your thread on hating people critisizing people's questions/opinions, then you do it?

And I may be wrong here, but Dashofpepper has played and placed well in several high tournaments. And even if he hadn't, he has very sound advice in almost all of his posts. And honestly? Wolves AREN'T something to be feared? Respected? Hell yes! They are a VERY solid army. And I believe that given players of equal skill, a lot of codexs can beat them, alongside IG and BA. They're nasty codexs, with lots of poweful builds and units. I've seen Space Marines WALK over Space Wolves, and those Space Wolves were players who have won many a big tourney. And that same Space Marine player got beat by an INSANE Eldar player later that Tournament.

Besides, in a game with a STRONG sense of luck, the best codex can fall to pieces when there isn't enough leeway on the board to warrant rolling a lot of 1s in a row. Trust me, my Nobs should run over a Tactical squad like cake, but last game I played, they rolls 1s and 2s till the Leadership test of double 6.

So, yeah, the top tier of popular armies would definitely be the two latest marines and IG. At the least, they probably have the MOST builds that are hands down powerful. But almost every codex has at least 1. (even Necrons...sorta.)

Feeder_of_life wrote:Dashofpepper You should fear the wolves, they can quite easily over power pretty much anyone, arrogance like that is gonna make you lose. Fast. Dont kid yourself, GW did make the codexes for Wolves, angels and guard extremely broken. If you disagree you must not play good players very often. Maybe you should stop hoping onto these threads and being a critical SOB. It isnt fun to be bashed is it?

If you didn't know this, Pepper has played very high level players, in extremely high-competitive environments. He participated in NOVA-CON, and played against the whole millieu of IG, SW, and BA, and against a whole bunch of big-names played SW and the like; saying he dosen't know what he's talking about is a bit silly.

I don't agree with his assertion that Orks are on the same level as 5th edition codicies (they do have serious problems), especially since they have pushed for greater balance between the 5th edition codicies then ever before (with the acknowledgement that 'nids have gotten a bit of a short straw) but his assertion that player skill is the dominant factor in games is true.

The fact that the first thing you say is that he is simply "not playing good players" is more revealing of you skill level. Most players I see whine about the 'unbeatable' nature of army book X is because they simply don't have the skill to play at a higher level- not to mention that the SW/IG army are capable of builds that stomp newer players. Look at the "leafblower" list- it's pretty bad (and in many cases, unoptimized), yet it stomped people because it always went first (with two sieze the initiatives as well!) no one reserved, and the like. Why don't you show us an unbeatable/broken SW 1,500pt list? 2,000? 2,500?

Personally, by strength of armies alone, I'd say it's probably something like this:

1st Tier - IG, SW, BA.
2nd Tier - Tyranids, DE, Daemons, Orks.
3rd Tier - Space Marines, Eldar, Black Templars, Dark Angels, Chaos Space Marines.
4th Tier - Sisters of Battle, Tau.
5th Tier - Necrons, Daemonhunters

Basically, the 1st tier armies are the most powerful IMHO and are the most plug-and-play.
The 2nd tier armies are also very powerful but typically require more finesse and specialised list-making.
3rd Tier armies are still competitive and capable of topping tournaments, however they typically have few viable builds.
4th Tier armies are those that can still sometimes be put to good use and perform very well but - Tau in particular - it's typically and uphill battle and rare occasion.
5th tier armies are pretty much the weakest codices out there, whom I'd never expect to win a tournament in the near-future.

Feeder_of_life wrote:In response to Shadey's thread, Tyranids and Chaos are top tier in the right hands. But its not like theyre mech guard or space wolves that could be won with by a chimp with down syndrome (Dont care if this insults anyone because if you get offended by this your talking this site too seriously)
@ Dashofpepper You should fear the wolves, they can quite easily over power pretty much anyone, arrogance like that is gonna make you lose. Fast. Dont kid yourself, GW did make the codexes for Wolves, angels and guard extremely broken. If you disagree you must not play good players very often. Maybe you should stop hoping onto these threads and being a critical SOB. It isnt fun to be bashed is it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lmao i called him a sister of battle, AKA a woman

Hello! Welcome to the internet. Let me introduce myself.

I'm the self-proclaimed best 40k player in the world. For a time, I was ranked the #1 player. At the moment, I think I'm ranked #6, although I haven't been to a Grand Tournament since the Nova Open last August, where I went 7-1 with my Orks. I have a massively huge ego, and utter confidence in my skills.

Regardless of any of that, a few notes for you.

1. Tyranids are *NOT* top tier in the hands of anyone. There will never be a tyranid army that takes the field against me that I don't scoff at, then beat. This past weekend I played against a pretty decent Tyranid army - Hive Tyrant with guard, two tervigons, three trygons, doom of malantai in a spore-pod, unit of hive guard, Ymgarl genestealers.....tabled my opponent without losing anything. I don't pull off a perfect victory against every tyranid player, but they are *not* capable of standing up at the top and fighting.

2. Chaos Marines: Doesn't deserve an answer.

3. Space Wolves: My personal favorite. If you think I'm wrong....that they deserve my respect, then put them on the table against me. With money on the line. You don't even have to win. Just not get tabled. That's how little respect I have for Space Wolves.

I *am* arrogant, and I've earned it. What credibility do you have behind YOUR opinions?

I'm curious as to why Daemons rank so high? Typically they aren't quite so highly rated and aside from Fatecrusher builds (very win big/lose big) don't really merit much discussion. I know personally I've never seen them as all that scary. For an army that is so easily ****ed by a couple dice rolls, what do people think makes them so strong?

EDIT: lol @ plastic army men game superiority complexes and blatant contradictions in the same thread.

Vaktathi wrote:I'm curious as to why Daemons rank so high? Typically they aren't quite so highly rated and aside from Fatecrusher builds (very win big/lose big) don't really merit much discussion. I know personally I've never seen them as all that scary. For an army that is so easily ****ed by a couple dice rolls, what do people think makes them so strong?

Ignoring the whole Dash vs. Feeder thing there (other than the popcorn on my lap)...

... I'd say it's because they can possess some very powerful units (i.e. Greater Daemons, Fiends, Bloodcrushers, Princes, Bearers) and in the right hands (Yermon for example) can be used very well. As you said, their ability is heavily dictated by the dice, but even if the dice are average you should have a game on your hands.

As I tried to convey in my listing, I wouldn't say they're the best, but used correctly I believe they can be powerful and AFAIK they often mosey around the top of tournament results...

Ravenwing are the highest tier army. A tier unto themselves. I win tournaments with them alot actually. No one ever expects 7 landspeeders!

One day I'd love to play DashofPepper, I bet he can table me by turn two

(I'm the self proclaimed worst 40k player in the world)

I never understood "it's the player not the codex" mentality. The fact that each book is not exactly the same means there is going to be imbalance. Yes army X is better than army Y, it's that simple. Of course the player skill is very important, a good player with a poor list can probably beat a bad player with a great list. Tiers tell you who to expect to win in a match of equal skill level, what a tier list should not do is tell you who to play as.

Using a high skill player, like let's say Dash, to show it's not the army, it's the player isn't a good example. His skill allows him to beat better codexes, it makes up for the army's fault. If he faced an opponent with the same skill and was using a low tier army, you could reasonably say he would probably lose (provided the opponent has a strong list). That's what tiers are for, prediction among equal skill level.

Hypothetically speaking: Dash, if you played yourself, with whatever army you choose. What army would you be afraid of?

Hypothetically speaking: Dash, if you played yourself, with whatever army you choose. What army would you be afraid of?

Genius

I'm betting the answer isn't going to be helpful or at all achieve its Lunarman's intentions...

i.e. "none" or Orks/DE because he knows them best...

I am not really understanding the whole obsession with "Top Tier" armies...that may be due to the fact that I play. and/or choose my army only on the basis of how they look and what the fluff behind them is....thats it.
Now that being said I love my armies to have cool toys to play with ( mostly so I can convert or modify the models ) and neat rules to really show their difference from other armies, but as to how they do in a "tournament enviroment" I don't care one iota, this hobby is one I do to relax and try to forget about the horrors I have seen overseas, not to worry how my little plastic dudes will kick other little plastic dudes butts, with a few tosses of dice
The way I see it you will spend FAR, FAR more time painting and building your army then you will ever spend playing with them on the table, so why choose such a huge investment in time and money solely based on if it is the current flavor of the month for the WAAC crowd.

I guess I kinda have this POV because I got all my competitive urges in gaming outta myself back when I played ASL ( Advanced Squad Leader ), that was my first introduction into wargaming back when I was a wee lad, but that game did not let me paint cool hovertanks and lizardmen

And for the Record I do not fear any army, nor player for that matter, because they are not shooting at me for real, its a game.

And my Tau kick much butt ( I have never told them they are "bottom Tier" army, don't want to give the little blue blokes a complex do I ? )