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I was planning on playing Dark Eldar months ago, but had to quit playing due to the real world heheh.

Im wanting to return to playing but now DE have a new codex and models. I have an army of old models and was wondering if people will still play if i used the old models and codex until i could get some extra money for the new stuff, and if they are worth it.

Slipknotsomeone wrote:if they are worth it.

No, they aren't.

Stick with IG or Space Wolves/Blood Angels. They are the only ones worth it.

That old codex was way better, one didn't need to think about anything with it.

I don't think people would be a huge fan of you using the old Dex, but go right ahead and use your old models, they are classics now.

BuFFo wrote:

Slipknotsomeone wrote:if they are worth it.

No, they aren't.

Stick with IG or Space Wolves/Blood Angels. They are the only ones worth it.

The old models are fine, but I'd have to recommend moving over to the new codex. And getting some of the new models, because they're absolutely beautiful.

no offence to who said they wernt worth it, i have the army so im going to end up playing as them anyways,because its the only actual army i have. my SM army is just Black reach. heheh

Also i think its funny that people hate the new codex, seeming how they always complained that the DE needed a new codex more than any other army. ( just think its funny how that works )

I will end up getting the new book if i start playing again ( need monies ) just figured i would ask the community what they think.

I have no idea what you guys are talking about dark eldar are a very tough book. you might not be playing them right if you are having problems with them. lol they kick ass at tournaments.

The new codex is excellent, and the new models are absolutely beautiful (although the poses on the warriors are a little on the static side).

I'd say go for it.

Slipknotsomeone wrote:no offence to who said they wernt worth it, i have the army so im going to end up playing as them anyways,because its the only actual army i have.

Pretty sure Buffo was just being facetious, since he's a Dark Eldar player, and has the whole "Dark Eldar battle report blog" link in his signature...

But yeah, the new codex is great. I think the only thing I've ever seen anyone complain about (being worse, that is; I've seen some small degree of crying over things being supposedly overpowered) was Dash complaining about the loss of 12" charge combat drugs and blasters for wyches, I believe it was.

Slipknotsomeone wrote:no offence to who said they wernt worth it, i have the army so im going to end up playing as them anyways,because its the only actual army i have. my SM army is just Black reach. heheh

Your question on if Dark Eldar is worth it is so broad that no one can answer it correctly. You asked such a wide opened question, I could only assume you post here on Dakka because you are a "tournament player", and going by that logic, the easy wins are not made with Dark Eldar, so no, DE is not worth it. I answered your questions as best as I could based on what you gave me.

Also i think its funny that people hate the new codex, seeming how they always complained that the DE needed a new codex more than any other army. ( just think its funny how that works )

I do not know where you are getting this from. I don't think I have seen even ONE person on any forum, or in person, who actually hates the codex. The universal opinion about the DE codex is that it is so balanced, so well written, so, perfect, that it literally is the best codex GW has ever pushed out. The previous 'best codex' was the first DE codex

I will end up getting the new book if i start playing again ( need monies ) just figured i would ask the community what they think.

Just look at any thread here on Dakka concerning the DE codex, and you'll see for yourself that the codex is a well written, well respected codex that many will attempt to master, but only a few will succeed.

Put it this way... Power gamer? The new DE codex is stronger than the previous codex by far. Casual gamer? The new DE codex has given DE players something we always wanted, playable units! There are probably only one or two real dud units in the codex, and that is something no other codex can really boast.

Just get the new codex and throw your old one in the trash. Pick up some of the best models GW has ever produced, and take slaves for Commorragh!

Well, I play DE since the 3rd ed came out (also with success in RTTs). In the 4th ed, I put them on the shelf. Now I think about starting the army again. One of my buddies, a very good fantasy player, fielded a DE army in recent RTTs and got tabled several times. He generally plays very aggressive which was possibly not the best way to play the new DE.

wuestenfux wrote:He generally plays very aggressive which was possibly not the best way to play the new DE.

It is the only way to play ( in general ).

Your friend just wasn't experienced enough for the meta of the tournament.

OP:

Welcome back to 40k! Couple of notes to make.

1. Using your old models are fine. I'm still doing it.

2. You *will* need the new codex.

I preferred the old codex. The DE players that were DE players before the new codex also preferred the old codex. There are a few major changes.
-Dark Lances got expensive. You can't field them en-masse with 5 man warrior units anymore.
-Wyches got nerfed, changed, and buffed. They got free plasma grenades (buff), their haywire grenades got cheaper by two points, but they lost wych weapons. That's huge. No more wych weapons. You can take it on a single model now, but its a gimped version. And...if you ran a wych cult, and used haywire grenades, there's no more 12" charge option for combat drugs.
-Lelith got nerfed. No more retinue, no more shadowfield. Sadly, she's never take the field again leading my wych cult.
-Ravagers got nerfed. Triple plasma cannons per ravager? STR7 AP2 small templates nuking terminators and MEQs everywhere (not to mention horde control), the disintegrators are gone, to be replaced by a wimpy version (STR5 AP2), meaning that the possible multiple roles you could find for a ravager in your army have been reduced to simply one. Triple dark lance anti-tank.
-Reaver Jetbikes got nerfed. Not that they were particularly good in the first place, but the ability to take two special weapons per three bikes is gone...as is their 4+ armour save. There are some die-hard fanatics defending reaver jetbikes floating around here, but I largely ignore them. BuFFo for example - uses reaver jetbikes, but in his battle report he makes up crazy rules that make them better than they are - stuff that no opponent should really let you do, and a tournament would kick you out of for cheating if you weren't willing to change. Just pre-empting the "OMG REAVERS DON'T SUCK" crowd. Because they do.

On the plus side:

-We got Venoms! They're awesome. Dual splinter cannon toting venoms - a cut down raider without a lance, but that can put out 12 STRX poisoned shots per turn. On the flip side, anti-tank was always weak for DE, and this doesn't help.
-We got new special characters! Vect wasn't great to begin with for his points, and his Dias is *super-lame* now - several of the special characters have both useful and useless rules that make them a hard pick. Drazhar got nerfed, the Mandrake guy is still lame, but Archons and Haemonculi are super-customizable now, not to mention Baron Sathonyx being pretty awesome.
-Grotesques are useful now. Who saw that coming?
-There are more than just two viable builds (Mechanized Wych Kult, Mechanized Kabal) in the new codex.
-Beastmaster units got buffed up. Stick to the old models or covert your own, the pricing for the new ones is ridiculous. Like....$300 to build a single unit of beasts.
-We now have kabalite trueborn! You can tote multiple special weapons (blasters, dark lances, etc) in an elite warrior squad now.
-Blasters got better. They gained 6" of range.

There are plenty of other "changes" and new units that I haven't included here, because they don't really factor into what I consider to be relevant to comparing the two codexes. Like, "Oh! There's a Voidraven Bomber now!" Well, as a competitive player, its a non-factor because it can't compete with the ravager for a heavy support slot in a competitive setting.

In terms of general DE advice and analysis, please click and read the link in my signature titled "My DE Advice." To toot my own horn here, I'm probably the most competitive DE player you'll find anywhere in the world. I'm very good with them, and do exceptionally well with them....which is contrary to the results most DE players are having in competitive settings. They're *not* forgiving of mistakes, they are difficult to master, but they are incredibly brutal when you are comfortable with them.


I picked a fight with Dayve110 last night, who is professed to be 217 win, 4 losses, 5 draws. His Mechdar vs my Dark Eldar. If you could BUILD a Mechdar list to fight Dark Eldar, this was it. No missile launchers or lances....scatter lasers across the board. 6 wave serpents with scatter lasers and catapults, 9 war-walkers with scatter lasers, minimal infantry (just the requirements to get the vehicles). This is the kind of army that will beat a Dark Eldar player into the ground.

The game ended 15 killpoints to 6 in my favor. I had lost 3 venoms, 2 ravagers, and a suicidal haemonculi, who left his raider to go drop a shattershard on a dire avenger unit. The game ended at turn 5 when we rolled a 1 to continue; he had 3 models left on the table. A weaponless warwalker, and another unit of two warwalkers stuck in close combat.

Presumably he'll be 217 wins, and 5 losses now. =p

I don't track games like that; the W/L/D in my signature are from big events. I've batrepped some of them. If you're hoping to be a competitive player, weigh my advice in accordance with my achievements. If you're NOT looking to be a competitive player....then take what I say with a grain of salt. The advice I give is always centered around how to win.

DE are a good army to play, and are very effective when you don't play them like blood angels/space wolves. If you like the models and the army idea as a whole, then just play them.

Dashofpepper wrote:-Reaver Jetbikes got nerfed. Not that they were particularly good in the first place, but the ability to take two special weapons per three bikes is gone...as is their 4+ armour save. There are some die-hard fanatics defending reaver jetbikes floating around here, but I largely ignore them. BuFFo for example - uses reaver jetbikes, but in his battle report he makes up crazy rules that make them better than they are - stuff that no opponent should really let you do, and a tournament would kick you out of for cheating if you weren't willing to change. Just pre-empting the "OMG REAVERS DON'T SUCK" crowd. Because they do.

Sorry, Reavers are fantastic. Just because you don't understand basic English does not make the Reavers a bad unit.

Dark Eldar can field more anti-tank weaponry now than they ever could. Wyches are far better now than they were in the past, most likely because many DE players were playing Wych Weapons wrong for the better part of a decade, giving themselves an unfair advantage. Over all the current book is far better than the previous one in terms of power and usefulness. We lost sniper teams, boo hoo. We got Trueborne. Case closed.

So yes, Dark Eldar are "worth it now" more than ever before.

BuFFo wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:-Reaver Jetbikes got nerfed. Not that they were particularly good in the first place, but the ability to take two special weapons per three bikes is gone...as is their 4+ armour save. There are some die-hard fanatics defending reaver jetbikes floating around here, but I largely ignore them. BuFFo for example - uses reaver jetbikes, but in his battle report he makes up crazy rules that make them better than they are - stuff that no opponent should really let you do, and a tournament would kick you out of for cheating if you weren't willing to change. Just pre-empting the "OMG REAVERS DON'T SUCK" crowd. Because they do.

Sorry, Reavers are fantastic. Just because you don't understand basic English does not make the Reavers a bad unit.

Dark Eldar can field more anti-tank weaponry now than they ever could. Wyches are far better now than they were in the past, most likely because many DE players were playing Wych Weapons wrong for the better part of a decade, giving themselves an unfair advantage. Over all the current book is far better than the previous one in terms of power and usefulness. We lost sniper teams, boo hoo. We got Trueborne. Case closed.

So yes, Dark Eldar are "worth it now" more than ever before.

Well Buffo, dont bash other people for their opinions. I will be playing DE whether they are "worth it" or not. because they are all i have as an actual "army".

I started as nids so idk anything about vehicles or anything of the like, Also i havent played almost half a year. I was just open to everyones suggestions, i dont have the codex yet, i dont have a store to play in, soon ill be moving to go to a university, so i have plenty of time to worry about getting everything i need.

And thank you DashOfPepper, ill read over everything, im not wanting to JUST WIN, i want to have fun with it, i mean ive never played in any tournaments either. Im just taking it slow and enjoying it as it goes.

BuFFo wrote:

Sorry, Reavers are fantastic. Just because you don't understand basic English does not make the Reavers a bad unit.

OP, what BuFFo is referring to is that he plays reavers in that the "line" you draw from one point to another to determine what your Caltrops are hitting can be drawn however you want - curved, zigzagged over other units, etc. As I said; that will get you labeled as TFG and ruled against in a tournament at best, disqualified for cheating at worst.

Dashofpepper wrote:

BuFFo wrote:

Sorry, Reavers are fantastic. Just because you don't understand basic English does not make the Reavers a bad unit.

OP, what BuFFo is referring to is that he plays reavers in that the "line" you draw from one point to another to determine what your Caltrops are hitting can be drawn however you want - curved, zigzagged over other units, etc. As I said; that will get you labeled as TFG and ruled against in a tournament at best, disqualified for cheating at worst.

That's your opinion, though, there's no rule in the rulebook saying you cant zigzag your units, afaik.

I believe it was FAQ'd...

Q: How do you mark the start and end points of a unit of
unit of Reavers move when they are using their special
Bladevanes attack? (p29)
A: Should confusion arise, simply pick any model in the
unit as the start point and mark that spot. Then move the
unit and pick any model as the end point. One unengaged,
non-vehicle unit under the line between the two markers
can then be chosen to be the target of the attack.

To paraphrase buffo "But I can draw a curvy line."

Dashofpepper wrote:There are plenty of other "changes" and new units that I haven't included here, because they don't really factor into what I consider to be relevant to comparing the two codexes. Like, "Oh! There's a Voidraven Bomber now!" Well, as a competitive player, its a non-factor because it can't compete with the ravager for a heavy support slot in a competitive setting.

Voidravens are a pretty bad choice, but razorwings are great anti-horde in any list that doesn't have nine venoms, while the increased number of raiders makes up for any antitank lost by not taking a ravager instead. An alpha strike with one could take out an entire 30 ork squad in one salvo with its basic missiles, about what you'd expect 108 splinter cannon shots to do (something around 36 wounds against anything with an armor save of 5+ or worse, if I recall correctly). After which its either a tank hunter only a little worse than a ravager, or a decent anti-infantry platform if you bought the splinter cannon and switched out the lances for disintegrators. Only downside is the current lack of a model for it (unless you count the old forgeworld raven fighter; here's hoping they actually bother to put out a plastic kit for it...).

LOL, so who wins? Buffo or Dash?

Alkasyn wrote:

Dashofpepper wrote:

BuFFo wrote:

Sorry, Reavers are fantastic. Just because you don't understand basic English does not make the Reavers a bad unit.

OP, what BuFFo is referring to is that he plays reavers in that the "line" you draw from one point to another to determine what your Caltrops are hitting can be drawn however you want - curved, zigzagged over other units, etc. As I said; that will get you labeled as TFG and ruled against in a tournament at best, disqualified for cheating at worst.

That's your opinion, though, there's no rule in the rulebook saying you cant zigzag your units, afaik.

afaik doesn't go very far these days. =D Read your rules again.

And for the record, mathematically speaking, a line is always straight. If they wanted to imply a zig zag or similar pattern, they would say curve.

If you want to play RAW, we'll play RAW.

Fafnir wrote:And for the record, mathematically speaking, a line is always straight. If they wanted to imply a zig zag or similar pattern, they would say curve.

If you want to play RAW, we'll play RAW.

According to BuFFo, we play RAW 40k, which doesn't include RAW dictionary inclusion into 40k. So a line *can* be a zig-zag or a curve. =D Which...is why his battle reports are so contentious - he cheats in his games, then gets into a shouting match with anyone who says something about it.

Not to ask a stupid question, but absent dictionary defintiions, how do any of the rules make sense?