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Questions on the Dark Eldar question DE.87A.02...

Q: Can a Wrack Acothyst use either a "Scissorhand‟ or "Flesh Gauntlet‟ along with his normal "poisoned weapons‟ to gain the +1A bonus in combat for having two weapons?
A: No, as they (despite all being poisoned weapons) are different special close combat weapons [clarification].

This ruling is rather confusing. There are many instances of different special close combat weapons combining (power weapons and regular close combat weapons, or pistols for example), in fact only Power Fists, Thunder Hammers, and Lightning Claws are specifically excluded as listed under "A normal and special weapon" section on Page 42.

These models gain one additional attack. All of their attacks, including the bonus attack, use the special weapon's bonuses and penalties.

Power Fists, Thunder Hammers, and Lightning Claws are an exception...

So in this instance, unless I am missing something obvious, these weapons will stack with their normal attacks, and all attacks benefit from the special rules. Especially in the case of the scissorhand that specifically states as much.

It is a poisoned weapon (3+), that grants +1 Attack. Note that this can be combined with an additional close combat weapon for a total of +2 attacks.

Further, in the case of the Flesh Gauntlet, it is stated to be a poison weapon, and as read above would stack since it's rules do not specifically state that it replaces other attacks. Thus an Acothyst armed with a Flesh Gauntlet has 2 attacks, plus 1 attack for wielding two weapons, for 3 attacks, poisoned (4+) that inflict instant death. Alternatively that same Acothyst armed with a Scissorhand has 2 attacks, plus 1 attack for wielding two weapons, plus 1 attack for the scissorhand, for a total of 4 attacks, poisoned (3+).

Now, I could see someone arguing that since both of these are ADDITIONAL equipment (and probably arms) on aberrations, that they would add additional attacks, above and beyond the two poisoned weapons. They do not state they replace them, and the picture of the wrack shows it with three arms. I would argue against it in the case of the Flesh Gauntlet, taking it to mean the Gauntlet is injecting the toxins into the newly opened wounds. But would state that is why you are gaining the additional +1 attack with the scissorhand for a total of +2 attacks, thus earning the total of 4 attacks.

This ruling is important to me as I intend on playing Dark Eldar at AdeptiCon, and do intend on using an Acothyst with Scissorhand. So to be sure I have it right, can you please comment?

Lovely.

Wrong sub-forum though.

Moving to proper forum.

I noticed this when the codex first came out, and unfortunately I agree with the INAT.

You get an extra attack from having:

Any weapon (other than PF, LC, and TH) + CCW
Any weapon (other than PF, LC, and TH) + Pistol
Any weapon X2

For the Acothyst, he doesn't have a CCW, he doesn't have a Pistol, and (in your example) he doesn't have two Flesh Gauntlets, so he would not have a bonus attack.

It is true that his generic weapons and the Flesh Gauntlet/Scissorhand are part of the same category (poisoned weapons) but they are not the same special weapons, so they can't stack. Also, we run into the same debate we have with Marneus Calgar, et al, which is that having three special weapons makes it impossible to gain a bonus attack.

Trust me, I want the Acothysts to have bonus attacks, but it doesn't work.

koralas wrote:
There are many instances of different special close combat weapons combining (power weapons and regular close combat weapons, or pistols for example), in fact only Power Fists, Thunder Hammers, and Lightning Claws are specifically excluded as listed under "A normal and special weapon" section on Page 42.

This is your issue. Special close combat weapons cannot combine with other special close combat weapons. They* can use a normal close combat weapon, like a Pistol or generic CCW, for a bonus attack.

See page 42 BGB under "Two different special weapons"

*with the exception of Power Fists (and Power Klaws), Thunder Hammers, and Lightning Claws

somerandomdude wrote:I noticed this when the codex first came out, and unfortunately I agree with the INAT.

You get an extra attack from having:

Any weapon (other than PF, LC, and TH) + CCW
Any weapon (other than PF, LC, and TH) + Pistol
Any weapon X2

For the Acothyst, he doesn't have a CCW, he doesn't have a Pistol, and (in your example) he doesn't have two Flesh Gauntlets, so he would not have a bonus attack.

It is true that his generic weapons and the Flesh Gauntlet/Scissorhand are part of the same category (poisoned weapons) but they are not the same special weapons, so they can't stack. Also, we run into the same debate we have with Marneus Calgar, et al, which is that having three special weapons makes it impossible to gain a bonus attack.

Trust me, I want the Acothysts to have bonus attacks, but it doesn't work.

correct, the acothyst does not get a bonus attack it if takes an agonizer, venom blade, PW, flesh guantlets, or scissorhand unless he also takes a pistol for 5 points. I dont believe it was intended but that is how it is written and is FAQed. It might change in an Errata.

Exergy wrote:correct, the acothyst does not get a bonus attack it if takes an agonizer, venom blade, PW, flesh guantlets, or scissorhand unless he also takes a pistol for 5 points. I dont believe it was intended but that is how it is written and is FAQed. It might change in an Errata.

And, since he can't take a Stinger Pistol AND one of those weapons, he can't get an extra attack. The Stinger Pistol is in the same list of options as all of his CC options, and it only says he may take "one" of them.

somerandomdude wrote:

Exergy wrote:correct, the acothyst does not get a bonus attack it if takes an agonizer, venom blade, PW, flesh guantlets, or scissorhand unless he also takes a pistol for 5 points. I dont believe it was intended but that is how it is written and is FAQed. It might change in an Errata.

And, since he can't take a Stinger Pistol AND one of those weapons, he can't get an extra attack. The Stinger Pistol is in the same list of options as all of his CC options, and it only says he may take "one" of them.

you are right, I misread his wargear options.

koralas wrote:This ruling is rather confusing. There are many instances of different special close combat weapons combining (power weapons and regular close combat weapons, or pistols for example), in fact only Power Fists, Thunder Hammers, and Lightning Claws are specifically excluded as listed under "A normal and special weapon" section on Page 42.

Special weapons can gain a bonus attack if used with a normal CCW (barring exceptions like power fists).

Two special weapons do not get a bonus.