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Firstly, sorry if this is in the wrong thread!

But looking ay my local store's copy of Codex Grey Knights I'm torn as to whether to give my termies Falchion or Halbereds!

So fellow Dakkites, what in your opinion is worth it?

Well, I have yet to see it but it would help if you post the rules.

Actually, I'd say it'd help if you spelt Halbered's as Halberds.

Nonetheless, I'd say like most things, a mix of the two is best. Halberds are excellent for letting you strike first and whittle down the enemy unit before all other attacks come into play, at which point the Falchions eat the rest alive.

One over the other, I'd probably go for the Halberds as IIRC Falchions re-roll wounds and therefore gain less from HH IMHO.

I will be using a squad of 5 men, 4 of which wielding halberds. I have always been one for high init's

I hope to get two of these squads**

-Alex.

Sword is a permanent +1 to invul saves, right?

That's what I'd go with in majority cases. I plan on taking Libby for I10, so Halberds' advantage can be acquired elsewhere. Similarly re-rolling wounds decreases in value as Str increases; Hammerhand and Rad grenades ensures 2+ to wound on T4 or lower.

+1 to Invul, however, is invaluable, especially versus shooting.

Part of the value of GK, to me at least, is their ability to hit harder and faster than their opponents. Its the only way to justify going into most fights outnumbered.

Having said that, in general my units will be equipped with as many halberds as I can fit in, because I6 is hard to pass up. Its nice knowing you will get to hit first against the vast majority of units.

But, a unit of falchion armed GKT with brotherhood banner will get +2 attacks each. At 5 attacks each on the charge, thats some massive damage. That unit could actually wreck th/ss termies and hordes, and probably outperform halberds if their enemy has equal or better initiative.

If I was taking a librarian, it would be a no brainer for the falchions as well.

For PAGKs, since my collection is mostly old models, i will probably be doing a mix of halbards and Falchions.

the Swords are really useless on the PAGKs since they don't have an invuln to improve(and warding staves are unimprovable)

the Falchions may seem useless with rerolling to wound, but +1A is great and the reroll to wound helps against high toughness enemies. and when you flub your dice.


my Terminators will be using a mix of Swords and Halbards though.

sourclams wrote:Sword is a permanent +1 to invul saves, right?

That's what I'd go with in majority cases. I plan on taking Libby for I10, so Halberds' advantage can be acquired elsewhere. Similarly re-rolling wounds decreases in value as Str increases; Hammerhand and Rad grenades ensures 2+ to wound on T4 or lower.

+1 to Invul, however, is invaluable, especially versus shooting.

I think it's only +1 to invul saves in cc. I am not sure. It would be great if someone could confirm this.

Just Dave wrote:
One over the other, I'd probably go for the Halberds as IIRC Falchions re-roll wounds and therefore gain less from HH IMHO.

Falchions don't reroll to wound, they only add +1 attack.

Equip your PAGK with half halberds and half falchions. Attack first with halberds, then when put wounds on the halberds and let the Falchions clean up what's left.

Sounds simple enough to me.

And yes, the sword only adds +1 to the invulnerable save in close combat. Against shooting attacks, the best invulnerable save that any non-independant character Grey Knight will ever get is 5++, and that's only on terminators.

Yay 4+ cover being godly.

Last I checked, falchions cost way more than halberds. Something like 5-10 points more. Keep them cheap, no upgrades, or take halberds. The falchions make them cost an arm and a leg...at that point if you must have the extra attack, purifiers are better (and can be scoring with castellan crowe or a grey knight grandmaster)
Or just take terminators and give the termies a banner. That's 3 attacks base.

Falchions are 5 additional points for only +1 extra attack...

Halberds are where it's at. I6 means you're striking before almost anything in the game. I forsee myself using 3x Halberds, 1 Warding Stave, and 1 Nemesis Daemon Hammer for some S10 goodness. Add in a Psycannon, and this badass unit comes in at only 245 points.

scuddman wrote:Yay 4+ cover being godly.

Last I checked, falchions cost way more than halberds. Something like 5-10 points more. Keep them cheap, no upgrades, or take halberds. The falchions make them cost an arm and a leg...at that point if you must have the extra attack, purifiers are better (and can be scoring with castellan crowe or a grey knight grandmaster)
Or just take terminators and give the termies a banner. That's 3 attacks base.

Actually, that's a better idea. Didn't realize Falchions cost that much for PAGK. Halberds cost 5 for strike squads and interceptors (2 points for purifiers) and falchions cost 10 (5 for purifiers). Falchions could be put to good use on Interceptors when you need a large backline unit DEAD, but I imagine Halberds will be the halmark upgrade weapon for the army.

And the Terminators' banner also makes the psychic test they take for their force weapons automatically pass. So things like Shadow in the Warp aren't that scary anymore.

That +1 attack each does more for the unit in cc than adding another model. Plus its cheaper.

There are times when I6 will not save you (rare as they may be). Granted I like the halberd more myself, but I think at least 1 unit will be loaded with falchions (and banner) in order to deal with the tough stuff.

Think along the lines of assault terminators, hordes and any unit that has 6 or better initiative. You gain pretty much nothing with that extra speed and lose out on the ability to deal more damage in return.

Note that I'm only talking about terminators here, who can get the falchions a little cheaper IIRC. My purifiers will have halberds for sure and I'm probably going to give daemonhammers to the interceptor squads.

don't falchions add 2 attacks?
they give +1 and are also two cc weapons....

I am pretty sure they only give +1 attack. I think the 2 falchions count as 1 weapon--since you can't just take 1--that give 1 extra attack.

As for what to take on termies, i think a mix of the 4 weapons is best for wound allocation games, unless you have a librarian nearby to quicksilver them, in which case you'd want to pass on the halberds and go mostly swords or falchions.

I would never take them on Strike or Interceptor squads, since 10 points a piece is way to much. I'd think about using them on Purifiers, though, since 5 points is much more reasonable, and makes them considerately more powerful. That being said, with the exception of hammers, i would probably not give any units falchions or halberds unless i had extra points in my list anyway.

Grundz wrote:don't falchions add 2 attacks?
they give +1 and are also two cc weapons....

I dont think so, it never goes out and says that they count as 2 CCW

Falchions give an extra attack in CC and Halberds (fixed as per Just Dave's request) let those who wield them strike at I6.

After looking through the responses and discussing it with some friends we've decided to go with mainly Halberds on termies and interceptors get a mix with a daemonhammer for Tank Hunting.

Thanks for the responses!

Psy.

zeekill wrote:

Grundz wrote:don't falchions add 2 attacks?
they give +1 and are also two cc weapons....

I dont think so, it never goes out and says that they count as 2 CCW

I actually just finally got my look at the codex.

yeah i just re-read the section, and it never names /any/ of the cc weapons as counting as close combat weapons, besides saying they are force weapons as detailed in the 40k book. the 40k book designates them as cc weapons, so I /think/ that makes them count as a pair of CC weapons.

this is going to turn into the same crap as that SM character with 2 power fists isnt it? Its hard to judge the intent of the rule because the point cost changes for every unit, it /seems/ that it is cheaper for every unit that is losing out in the +1 invulnerable by swapping out the sword, but putting it at equal cost as a "thunder" hammer (which is usually pretty expensive) and making it only worth a +1 attack doesn't seem right.

It is only a pair of Weapons if the Rules(not the fluff/model) describe it as such; if "they" simply counts as a Force weapon; then "they" are 1 Weapon.

It is very likely that "they" are a single CCW(Force Weapon) and the granting an additional attack rule is to show that they are paired in Fluff/model.

Kommissar Kel wrote:It is only a pair of Weapons if the Rules(not the fluff/model) describe it as such; if "they" simply counts as a Force weapon; then "they" are 1 Weapon.

It is very likely that "they" are a single CCW(Force Weapon) and the granting an additional attack rule is to show that they are paired in Fluff/model.

yeah, the way I see it is pretty much every codex would say "counts as a pair of force weapons" and leave it at that, not mention the +1 attack (considering that the +1 attack thing is a core rule and are usually not restarted in codexes so they can be used in the next edition properly if it changes)

again i'm not arguing, I just think GW is damn stupid to keep letting things like this in their books, maybe its a marketing ploy to keep people talking about the game >.>

You have found out their Stratagy; it is called "Operation: Nerdrage", and is designed specifically to get all of us constantly talking about their Products. this is the Same reason they give the Chapter Champion the option to replace his boltgun with a combat blade(a third CCW, and second normal CCW), and allow the DK to replace his extra attack granting second doomfist with a weapon that has little to no extra benefit; yet costs points and removes the bonus attack ;P

Halberds wipe the floor with incubi, our only competetive anti-meq unit..... Ugh.

The more I hear of this codex, the more worried I get.

From what I can tell though, I'd rather have the halberds. I6 is incredible (beats IOS terminators, inubi, and everything else, mostly), not to mention it's a force weapon.

All Halberds all the way.

Samus_aran115 wrote:Halberds wipe the floor with incubi, our only competetive anti-meq unit..... Ugh.

The more I hear of this codex, the more worried I get.

From what I can tell though, I'd rather have the halberds. I6 is incredible (beats IOS terminators, inubi, and everything else, mostly), not to mention it's a force weapon.

wyches still go simo with them and archons or succubi will always strike first.
Guess you have to get 2 pain tokens on your incubi ASAP for FC just to do simo. And seriously, the old Incubi had power halberds as well.

But Wytches only have Agonizers for dealing with 3+ armor saves and if there is a Warding Staf the Agonizer is practically useless.

Agree with Halberds.

How many units in the game will go before you with Halberds?

Also, it makes Blood Angel players cry. That's always fun.

Grey Templar wrote:But Wytches only have Agonizers for dealing with 3+ armor saves and if there is a Warding Staf the Agonizer is practically useless.

for what wyches cost and then factoring in the effects of combat drugs I think they can still do pretty well against Grey Knights. We are talking about 10 point models going up against things that cost 30 a model right. A 3+ save is not going to be enough to level the playing field if the wyches get into combat.
Wyches tend to do better than average against elite assault troops because they have shardnets to reduce the number of attacks back and the 4++ save to shrug off power weapons.

lets see.


Banshees and Librarians with Quickening up will go first.

charging BAs will go after(not getting any armor or FnP)

Incubi will also go after.



other then some Characters, everyone is going after.

It's better to have the squad swinging at various initiative steps so your opponent can't stack wounds using allocation.

Grey Templar wrote:lets see.


Banshees and Librarians with Quickening up will go first.

charging BAs will go after(not getting any armor or FnP)

Incubi will also go after.



other then some Characters, everyone is going after.

Genestealers, harlequins and wyches(and wych like things) go simo.
Various DE things with FC will go simo and wyches(and wych like things) with FC will still go first.

I cant think of anything else that shows up in quantity.