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Will wrote:that 2++ in HtH is going to cost you 20 points.

but that 2++ only needs to save one GK to pay for itself, on average it will save like 2.5 before the guy goes down.

so /in theory/ it is a good idea.

Here's the issue with GK's, they aren't a spammy "X UNIT IS GOOD, TAKE THEM AAAAALLL" army.
you need to be careful with your choices, because if your buying nemesis staffs for every unit, you are diluting your firepower, if you buy too many CC upgrades or shooting upgrades and dont end up using them to their capability, you are diluting your firepower.

with the low model count you really need those points to count!

Kommissar Kel wrote:It is only a pair of Weapons if the Rules(not the fluff/model) describe it as such; if "they" simply counts as a Force weapon; then "they" are 1 Weapon.

It is very likely that "they" are a single CCW(Force Weapon) and the granting an additional attack rule is to show that they are paired in Fluff/model.

It states the lightning claws in the SM codex not as 2 lightning claws, but as a pair. The GK codex doesn't say anything different except that you aren't able to take 1 Falchion. So yes, you do get 1 attack for two CCW and 1 attack because of their ability.

Nvm, I see where you are coming from, but it says in the GK codex in the slot choice (where it says all the different weapon options you can take) that it is a pair.

daniel80000 wrote:

Kommissar Kel wrote:It is only a pair of Weapons if the Rules(not the fluff/model) describe it as such; if "they" simply counts as a Force weapon; then "they" are 1 Weapon.

It is very likely that "they" are a single CCW(Force Weapon) and the granting an additional attack rule is to show that they are paired in Fluff/model.

It states the lightning claws in the SM codex not as 2 lightning claws, but as a pair. The GK codex doesn't say anything different except that you aren't able to take 1 Falchion. So yes, you do get 1 attack for two CCW and 1 attack because of their ability.

Except that lightning claws are special CCWs as outlined by the BRB. A pair of lightning claws thus is two special ccws, while Nemesis Force Falchions are 1 weapon choice unless otherwise stated in the codex.

Force weapons are also considered "special weapons", and the GK codex says that all NFW are Force weapons described in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

Afrikan Blonde wrote:It's better to have the squad swinging at various initiative steps so your opponent can't stack wounds using allocation.

That matters more when you have some power weapons, some non power weapons. It doesnt matter nearly as much when they are all power weapons.


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I didn't read the codex super close, but do G/Ks get grenade so all the extra I isn't hosed by DT?

ArtfcllyFlvrd wrote:
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I didn't read the codex super close, but do G/Ks get grenade so all the extra I isn't hosed by DT?

they all get grenades (including terminators) as well as new psyk-out grenades
inquisitors can get raid or psykotropic grenades

Rad is -1 T I think, but I don't know what Psykotropic grenades do... Or those Empyrean Brain Mines...

The brain mines are cool, but the pychotroke look soooo much fun!

Could anyone tell me what the mines do, or the Pychotroke? Haven't had enough time with the thing to read 'em.

The mines- one opposing model has to pass an Initiative test or they can't make any attacks
pychotroke- when assaulting or assaulted, roll a D6 for each opposing unit and then something trippy happens depending on what you roll

Except that lightning claws are special CCWs as outlined by the BRB. A pair of lightning claws thus is two special ccws, while Nemesis Force Falchions are 1 weapon choice unless otherwise stated in the codex.

So on one hand you get free (40p assault terminator) lightning claws that add +1A and reroll to wound and on the otehr hand you are forced to pay 5p for just +1A. Hmm...

As for the psybolt ammo its overrated and overpriced (as almost all things in this codex).
The normal PAGK squad will see 8 stormbolter knights and 2 psycannon knights, so you spend 20p on getting 8 knights a S5 stormbolter.

The eight S4 strombolters will cause 5.25 wounds on SM.
The same eight S5 stormbolters will cause 6.9 wounds on SM.

You just spent 20 points to kill 8.7 points of extra SM and this is only going downhill since as your GK squad takes casulties less and less of the S5 stormbolters will be able to contribute to earning back those 20 points they cost.
Plus far from every turn will be a shooting one, your stormboters will need to be in range and have viable targets.

So other then the odd chance of getting S5 rear shots at vehicles why would you ever want to waste 20p to give 8 PAGKs or 4 TGK S5 stormbolters?
Even with the odd chance the psyammo will make the psilencer S5 there is no wy inhell anyone will ever take that piece of crap weapon (psilencer).

RAW, Falcions give +2 attacks (expect this to be FAQ'd very quickly). And S5 stormbolters are useful against light armour. Psycannons will be doing more damage, but if you're targetting the rear armour of a vehicle that moved flat out, you'll need every shot you can get to kill the sucker.

Pyriel- wrote:
The eight S4 strombolters will cause 5.25 wounds on SM.
The same eight S5 stormbolters will cause 6.9 wounds on SM.

and how much better vs T3
how about rhino's?

Grundz wrote:
but that 2++ only needs to save one GK to pay for itself, on average it will save like 2.5 before the guy goes down.

No guarantee you wont lose that model to mass shooting.

I'd rather strike first, kill more, and roll less armour saves.

If the 2++ is constant then it would be a no brainer.

Pyriel- wrote:

Except that lightning claws are special CCWs as outlined by the BRB. A pair of lightning claws thus is two special ccws, while Nemesis Force Falchions are 1 weapon choice unless otherwise stated in the codex.

So on one hand you get free (40p assault terminator) lightning claws that add +1A and reroll to wound and on the otehr hand you are forced to pay 5p for just +1A. Hmm...

As for the psybolt ammo its overrated and overpriced (as almost all things in this codex).
The normal PAGK squad will see 8 stormbolter knights and 2 psycannon knights, so you spend 20p on getting 8 knights a S5 stormbolter.

The eight S4 strombolters will cause 5.25 wounds on SM.
The same eight S5 stormbolters will cause 6.9 wounds on SM.

You just spent 20 points to kill 8.7 points of extra SM and this is only going downhill since as your GK squad takes casulties less and less of the S5 stormbolters will be able to contribute to earning back those 20 points they cost.
Plus far from every turn will be a shooting one, your stormboters will need to be in range and have viable targets.

So other then the odd chance of getting S5 rear shots at vehicles why would you ever want to waste 20p to give 8 PAGKs or 4 TGK S5 stormbolters?
Even with the odd chance the psyammo will make the psilencer S5 there is no wy inhell anyone will ever take that piece of crap weapon (psilencer).

That 8.7 pts is per turn, per squad. It adds up over time, even with losses taken. In fact, a small squad like being able to wound things easier, they need it more since they get less shots. Also S5 if take in volume is actually pretty effective against light tanks like rhinos, DE raiders and ravagers. Wounding Geqs on 2s instead of 3s isn't something to sneeze at either. Increasing the lethality and utility of 16 shots is more effective in terms of points vs killing power than buying another GK. Which is what 20 pts represents.

The psilencer on the other hand, sucks as far as I can see. Not because it is S4, it has a decent volume of fire, but because it is a heavy weapon, which negates the point of GK infantry being mobile shooting/assault infantry.

GKTs get hammer hand, while rerolling is nice, S5 is pretty good. I do agree that unless I'm missing something, it probably isn't worth the upgrade. Go with daemonhammers, halberds, or basic swords. The actual mix will probably take quite a bit of thought and testing.

I have all the old metal one and I'm stuck partially with what they have as I hate converting metal models.

Never thought about how the old justicars have swords....lame as they have no inv save. That doesn't grant them a 6+ does it?

Lord_Osma wrote:I have all the old metal one and I'm stuck partially with what they have as I hate converting metal models.

Never thought about how the old justicars have swords....lame as they have no inv save. That doesn't grant them a 6+ does it?

nope, they get no benefit from the sword. It is at least free though.

Lord_Osma: You could just buy 2 Boxes of Plastic Grey Knights and a Box of Tac marines to Bolster your Forces with 2 extra grey Knights(Conversion should be rather easy). then you can put your Metal Halberdiers mixed into the Plastic squads.

I plan to do the Tac+GK Boxes if/when I build a GK army.

Although i am thinking of getting several Deathwatch Conversion packs and Tac Squads and Fielding Veleria + Strike-squads Count-as Deathwatch Kill Teams for a theme Ordo Xenos army.

Pyriel- wrote:So on one hand you get free (40p assault terminator) lightning claws that add +1A and reroll to wound and on the otehr hand you are forced to pay 5p for just +1A. Hmm...

Normal assault termites get their pair of lighting claws at the expense of their powerfist and storm bolter.
Check the CSM termite entry. 30 points for the termite with a twinlinked bolter and power weapon. +10 points for a powerfist, one single lightning claw or two lighning claws(that replaces the bolter)

Grey night termites get to keep their storm bolter right?


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I think the swords give +1 attack and a further +1 for being two of a kind. so +2 altogether though

Exergy wrote:
I think the swords give +1 attack and a further +1 for being two of a kind. so +2 altogether though

Currently, yes. But expect it to be FAQ'd pretty early on. It's obvious that this is just poor writing on Ward's part, although we should come to expect that now.

Now i think i will run a purifier list with tons of Halbards.

that way, i am just looking at the same points cost as last codex(slightly cheaper actually) and the Halbards are free.