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After thinking of a few changes in my list, a few units came up that look fine on paper, but just dont seem right.
Wanted to know how people have got on with them or what they think of them.


Voidraven bomber - Costs about twice as much kitted out as a ravager does, but seems to have some nice qualities.
The specialized missiles and void weapons being among the top of those.
All in all, im pretty interested in it, but it seems just as much of a paper plane as the rav is.
Anyone used one yet?
If i do get one into my list then ill be raiding one from FW (eldar version)

Bloodbrides - Been struggling to find a real use for them, but offer nice convertion possibilities.
Seem to be normal wyches with an extra LD and attack plus 1/3 being upgraded rather than 1/5.
Granted you can take 3 sets of hydra gauntlets for tons of attacks, but they seem just like more expensive wyches to me.
Anything ive missed?

Mandrakes - Cool models, but thats about it i guess.
Just wanted to make sure im not missing anything about them that would be of use.

Harlies - lots of decent rules, but again seem like expensive wyches with a few extra stats and some different wargear.




I think thats about it really.
Just wanted to make sure im not overlooking anything good.

I think that bloodbrides can be used effectively.

I would take 9 of them plus a Hemi with 3x Shardnets and an agonizer. I would rather deny the enemy attacks then get a few more Regular S3 attacks personally.

with 3x Shardnets you will take off a lot of attacks from the enemy, and you get more attacks with your agonizer as well. They can tank and grind down enemy squads pretty well, so you will probably stay in combat where you are not getting shot at. If you are not going to take Incubi, these guys could be used instead.

The main downside is that True born are needed for the extra anti-tank power


the Same is even more true for Harlies and Mandrakes. the Elite section has other good stuff in it.


On the voidraven... In terms of anti-tank, it is NOT as good as a Ravager. they are almost the same against AV 12+, but the ravager pulls ahead against AV 10 and 11,
The missiles are VERY expensive as well, especially for something that will cost close to 200 pts. Also, one small blast (the void mine) is not really useful since you have to get so close to use it.

A Razorwing can be a great Alpha Strike anti-infantry unit, if the fliers interest you. 2x disintigrators, a Splinter cannon, and the 4 standard missiles can really hurt something. You can reserve it, and shoot all the missiles the turn it comes in.

The Voidraven can go flat-out 36" and drop the template on any unit it passes over. For a lot of units, that can put you out of range of reprisal.

Whether it's worth it not shooting for one turn is worth it to drop the mine is up to you...

I have not seen mandrakes in action. On paper they do not seem so bad IMHO, it is just that the rest of your army does not mix well with them.

But a 3+ and 5+ save is not so bad. Infiltrate and move thorugh cover and str 4 (can takle out tanks) seems good to me. If you charge the right unit they will winn and then you get shooting.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:After thinking of a few changes in my list, a few units came up that look fine on paper, but just dont seem right.
Wanted to know how people have got on with them or what they think of them.


Voidraven bomber - Costs about twice as much kitted out as a ravager does, but seems to have some nice qualities.
The specialized missiles and void weapons being among the top of those.
All in all, im pretty interested in it, but it seems just as much of a paper plane as the rav is.
Anyone used one yet?
If i do get one into my list then ill be raiding one from FW (eldar version)

Razorwings are better, and it's probably best to wait for the actual model, which should be coming out in june, last I heard. I think the biggest problem it has is the missiles cost twice as much as they should. A razorwing with two disintegrators, a splinter cannon, and both a flickerfield and night shields provides an extremely durable, long range anti-infantry unit, something the codex otherwise lacks (unless you're taking nine venoms, which might be able to match a single razorwing for antihorde, at the cost of antitank and transport capacity). If you don't take disintegrators instead of lances, it ends up almost as good as a ravager once its missiles are gone, so you inflict ~40 casualties against a horde, and then go and hunt any armor that's to be found.

Bloodbrides - Been struggling to find a real use for them, but offer nice convertion possibilities.
Seem to be normal wyches with an extra LD and attack plus 1/3 being upgraded rather than 1/5.
Granted you can take 3 sets of hydra gauntlets for tons of attacks, but they seem just like more expensive wyches to me.
Anything ive missed?

Bloodbrides shine at doing two things: serving as an escort for a MC killing Archon/hunting MCs themselves, with a Syren with an agoniser, and butchering infantry with razorflails, which means you have 12 attacks that each have a 75% chance of hitting against anything more than WS3, and less than WS9, and an 88% chance of hitting against WS3, and even against T4 have a 55% chance of wounding with each attack, instead of a 33% chance, while wounding T3 75% of the time.

Mandrakes - Cool models, but thats about it i guess.
Just wanted to make sure im not missing anything about them that would be of use.

That's pretty much it. Awesome models, tragically terrible rules.

Harlies - lots of decent rules, but again seem like expensive wyches with a few extra stats and some different wargear.

Outdated, overcosted units that don't fit in with the PfP crowd and can't take a dedicated transport.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Niiai wrote:I have not seen mandrakes in action. On paper they do not seem so bad IMHO, it is just that the rest of your army does not mix well with them.

But a 3+ and 5+ save is not so bad. Infiltrate and move thorugh cover and str 4 (can takle out tanks) seems good to me. If you charge the right unit they will winn and then you get shooting.

Their problems are:
1) They're expensive.
2) They don't have assault grenades, and have no way to get them short of sacrificing the only thing they have going for them, infiltrate, to take an Archon with PGL.
3) They have a low number of non-power weapon, poisoned, or rending attacks, meaning they'll have a hard time killing anything in melee.
4) They only get their shooting attack after killing something in melee, unless you sacrifice their infiltrate ability to attach a Haemonculus, or you manage to get a cronos close enough and kill something with one of its syphon attacks.

If any single one of those was rectified, they'd be good, with some of them making them great, but they really have nothing going for them.

The reason i was thinking about the bomber is simply for its duel purpose.

It can use the missiles for infantry, then move on to tank hunting with its S9 lances.
So, your allways glancing or better on 3+

Missile wise, i guess the razorwing isnt as bad as it seems.
Missing implosion, but at 30 points each, they are far too much to be justified unless your facing a GK army i guess. (Paladins dead on a 3+, normal GK dead on a 2+, sounds good to me)
However, for its points a small blast isnt enough.

I would be going for necrotoxins though, simply because its large blast, wounds on 2+, pinning and actually has an AP value lol.


Other than that, i guess the razorwing isnt soo bad, just lower armour which leads to glances from small arms fire.



I dont need 3 rav's taking up my heavies, im sure i can swap 1 out for a razor or void.
Allways have wyches with haywires and blaster true's as a backup for extra anti-tank if needed.

195 will get me a razorwing with Dcannons, Scannon, 5 toxins, night shields and flicker.
As opposed to 205 for a void with 4 toxins, shields and flicker.


I just feel that DE as a whole lack large blasts, something which ive relied on in alot of other armies to remove horde as quickly as possible.
Failing that, i would have to spend my elites on 3 units of 3 trueborn with 2 splintercannons each, in a venom with splinters.
So 24 Scannons shots a turn each.

It should always be far enough away that small arms fire isn't a problem for it, and AV10 isn't meaningfully worse than AV11 against dedicated antitank, which shreds both. The default monoscythe missiles are also the better deal on the Razorwing, because most things are T3 or T4, so you're wounding on a 2+ anyways, both have AP5, and pinning isn't reliable enough to be worth spending more on.

Point taken i guess.
Chances of playing T5 infantry isnt all that common anymore.
Also saves 20 points

True enough again with the AV i guess.
Las doesent really care for either.

I guess ill have to try out a razorwing and see how i get on with it.


Also, been away from the game for a little while, so a little rusty i guess.

The Aerial assault rule lets it fire all weapons while moving at cruising speed can fire all weapons, so am i right in thinking i can fire everything i have on that razorwing in a single turn?
1 shot weapons are a new thing for me, just wanted to make sure there is nothing preventing me from launching all 4 on turn 1.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:After thinking of a few changes in my list, a few units came up that look fine on paper, but just dont seem right.
Wanted to know how people have got on with them or what they think of them.

Okay, here I go.

Voidraven bomber - Costs about twice as much kitted out as a ravager does, but seems to have some nice qualities.
The specialized missiles and void weapons being among the top of those.
All in all, im pretty interested in it, but it seems just as much of a paper plane as the rav is.
Anyone used one yet?

This vehicle is not good. It's main purpose is anti-tank, but , the Ravager does better for cheaper. it's main purpose is anti-infantry, but the Razorwing does better for much cheaper.

The VoidRaven Bomber is a unit that constantly looks good on paper, but basically sucks. Especially after the Implosion Missile nerf, the Voidraven bomber is not worth taking at all. I guess GW was worried about DE being TOO effective against their flagship armies.

Only good as an alpha strike unit.

3/10

Bloodbrides - Been struggling to find a real use for them, but offer nice convertion possibilities.
Seem to be normal wyches with an extra LD and attack plus 1/3 being upgraded rather than 1/5.
Granted you can take 3 sets of hydra gauntlets for tons of attacks, but they seem just like more expensive wyches to me.
Anything ive missed?

Yeah, they are "just"upgraded wyches. They are still wonderful. Remember, Bloodbrides cost as much as old Wyches used to cost, so you are essentially getting +1 attack and LD for free if you ever played with the old codex. Take bloodbrides with triple impalers and watch as Mephiston/Swarmlord gets to do nothing each turn against you.

But, your meta will dictate their use. If you play a lot of MECH, then it is still Trueborne you have to use.

7/10

Mandrakes - Cool models, but thats about it i guess.
Just wanted to make sure im not missing anything about them that would be of use.

Ahhh... The unsung beauties that the uninitiated will always over look. Mandrakes are very useful, but, as with winning with DE, using Mandrakes requires actual strategy and tactics, which are things many marines-trying-DE-out lack.

Mandrakes are the kind of unit that only experienced players will find uses for. Perfect for DE Archons

Try this... Infiltrate Mandrakes in a congo line towards your opponent, but attached with a Heamonculus. Turn 1, leave the heamonculus, take the pain token, and stat moving towards the enemy in cover. This forces the opponent to use a portion of his army to deal with mandrakes, which as a bait unit will let your other, easier-to-kill threats live longer. I have had players ignore Mandrakes untill they assault long fangs on turn two, or assault vehicles and punch them into a stunned state.

Mandrakes are not for the inexperienced DE player. Which is why I love them.

6/10

Harlies - lots of decent rules, but again seem like expensive wyches with a few extra stats and some different wargear.

This unit was shoe horned in for fluff reasons. Just pretend this unit doesn't exist like I do, and you'll forget they are even there.

1/10

But seing as DE are agresive and try to control the game you should be abel to suport the mandrakes. The mandrakes have a good amount of attacks at str 4. While they cannot beat CC specialists they can kill things that are not ready for them.

Blow up a transport with lances and charge that combat squad! Or long fangs, or that whirldwind. But if you meet no good targets they are bad. Mandrakes vs assault amrines = dead mandrakes.

The VoidRaven Bomber is a unit that constantly looks good on paper, but basically sucks. Especially after the Implosion Missile nerf, the Voidraven bomber is not worth taking at all. I guess GW was worried about DE being TOO effective against their flagship armies.

Only good as an alpha strike unit.

3/10

I guess ill have to agree on this then.
I guess the mixed role and outdone by the rav kill it off.

Any thoughts on a razorwing instead?

Yeah, they are "just"upgraded wyches. They are still wonderful. Remember, Bloodbrides cost as much as old Wyches used to cost, so you are essentially getting +1 attack and LD for free if you ever played with the old codex. Take bloodbrides with triple impalers and watch as Mephiston/Swarmlord gets to do nothing each turn against you.

But, your meta will dictate their use. If you play a lot of MECH, then it is still Trueborne you have to use.

7/10

Old wyches arent about anymore, so in effect im saving no points as i would have also lost assault weps and wych weps.
The LD is provided to normal wyches at a basic 10 point upgrade, along with another attack on said model.
Also, keep in mind that they may have another attack and an extra weapon as such, but they are not scoring.

Mandrakes are not for the inexperienced DE player. Which is why I love them.

6/10

Its a good thing i wasnt a marine player then.
More used to crons and nids.
To be honest, i see your use for them, but in essence they are a distraction that will either save my troops a few bullets, or get into combat and tarpit for a turn or 2.
Granted thier points arent high, but they do eat an elite slot, so that would demand a better use from another unit type.
If i need a meatshield distraction that uses an elite slot, i would consider grotesques.
Granted the dont have inf.
They are however alot tougher and dont require a skinman to give them FNP.

Again though, i would be more inclined to take trueborn special units in venoms for the fire power they provide.

Or even uncubi instead.
Arent the best unit in the army, but they are capable of doing some nice damage and taking some too.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:

The VoidRaven Bomber is a unit that constantly looks good on paper, but basically sucks. Especially after the Implosion Missile nerf, the Voidraven bomber is not worth taking at all. I guess GW was worried about DE being TOO effective against their flagship armies.

Only good as an alpha strike unit.

3/10

I guess ill have to agree on this then.
I guess the mixed role and outdone by the rav kill it off.

Any thoughts on a razorwing instead?

I have fielded Razorwings twice, and both times they just decimated my opponent. They are, essentially the DE version of a Medusa/Manticore in that on turn 1, you will put out so much devastating fire it will blow your mind. Both games I played were against Space Wolves. yes, I took them because I knew my opponent always fielded long fangs. Both games, on turn 1, I blew all three Long Fang units off the table with my Triple Razorwings, essentially winning me the game.

Phil made such a deviously evil, and under noticed codex. I love this book.

Yeah, they are "just"upgraded wyches. They are still wonderful. Remember, Bloodbrides cost as much as old Wyches used to cost, so you are essentially getting +1 attack and LD for free if you ever played with the old codex. Take bloodbrides with triple impalers and watch as Mephiston/Swarmlord gets to do nothing each turn against you.

But, your meta will dictate their use. If you play a lot of MECH, then it is still Trueborne you have to use.

7/10

Old wyches arent about anymore, so in effect im saving no points as i would have also lost assault weps and wych weps.
The LD is provided to normal wyches at a basic 10 point upgrade, along with another attack on said model.
Also, keep in mind that they may have another attack and an extra weapon as such, but they are not scoring.

If this is how you see it, then that is fine. I have been fielding 13 point wyches since 2001, so for me, the Bloodbrides are just better, free-er wyches. It is the same comparison people do when they show how much Grey hunters get over other codex marines.

If you see them as just more expensive Wyches, more power to you. The unit probably isn't for you then.

Mandrakes are not for the inexperienced DE player. Which is why I love them.

6/10

Its a good thing i wasnt a marine player then.
More used to crons and nids.
To be honest, i see your use for them, but in essence they are a distraction that will either save my troops a few bullets, or get into combat and tarpit for a turn or 2.

Two things DE needs to survive the first few turns. Why do you think Talos even exist? Bullet magnet for your Vehicles.

Granted thier points arent high, but they do eat an elite slot, so that would demand a better use from another unit type.

Eat an elite slot. Only if you use all three slots, and only if your meta dictates you need Bloodbrides w/ Haywires or Trueborne for anti-tank.

Again though, i would be more inclined to take trueborn special units in venoms for the fire power they provide.

Okay.

Or even uncubi instead.

Cool

I don't see how harlies can be a bad choice. They work well in an Eldar army and now they finally have access to open topped transports to assault out of. Take some trueborn with dark lances and leave them in cover and give their venom or raider to some harlies.

Snip...... Phil made such a deviously evil, and under noticed codex. I love this book.

So i was right in thinking you can hurl all 4 missiles in the same turn?
Granted they will have to be directed at the same unit, so i doubt ill ever use all 4, but it does seem entertaining.

Ill give it a month and see how rumors go, if there is no mention of a model, ill salvage something from FW.
Few rumors about, but nothing concrete, may have to pm kroot and see how the land lies.

If this is how you see it, then that is fine. I have been fielding 13 point wyches since 2001, so for me, the Bloodbrides are just better, free-er wyches. It is the same comparison people do when they show how much Grey hunters get over other codex marines.

If you see them as just more expensive Wyches, more power to you. The unit probably isn't for you then.

Dont get me wrong, they have a pretty solid use, but they arent for me.
About the only time i would use them is 9 with 3 shards or chains and with a skinman, then remove him and let them keep the token.
does tie me up though while doing so.

Two things DE needs to survive the first few turns. Why do you think Talos even exist? Bullet magnet for your Vehicles.

Heh, funnily enough, ive just started building a talos from a FW blood slaughterer.
Ill grab some pics later. (dislike the GW one)

Eat an elite slot. Only if you use all three slots, and only if your meta dictates you need Bloodbrides w/ Haywires or Trueborne for anti-tank.

Usually it will be rav's and a single unit of true's for tank hunting, while i take 2 units of 3 true's with Scannons in twin Scannon venoms for infantry.
However, nothings set in stone i guess.
Might have to try out 3 razorwings for infantry and true's for tanks.

Never the less, i allways have 2 units of wyches with haywires.







Just a few more units i could do with thoughts on if possible.
I tend to use an idea and stick with it, i do however want to try and change my basics now and try something different.
So, a few more units:


Scourges - With a 4+ save and carbines as standard, mixed in with being jump infantry they seem ok, but ive got a few issues with them.
Dark lances are no use to them, since i want them on the move as much as possible.
So, basic weapons for them are infantry based, yet upgrades are tank hunting, do they actually have a real use?
I usually tend to stick to a single role for each unit, unless its not possible.




Beastmasters - Seem pretty nice i guess.
The master has no real bonus, other than being a wych on a board.

Fiend; Not sure really, seems hard to put down, but for 5 points less i can get a grotesque which has FNP and a few options.
Both have to have a baby sitter of some kind though.

Kymera; Seems pretty sweet for thier points.
4++ save, S4, 3 attacks, i like them.
Chances are though i would run 2-3 masters with max kymeras.

Razorwing flock; Lots of wounds and attacks, but only S and T 3, so wont wound all that often, and will end up being ID by S6 -_-
I think thier saving grace is rending.




Pain engines - Both talos and chronos.

Talos; Seems pretty cool, shame about only having 3 wounds though.
Also, would the extra CCW give it D6+1 attacks?
Says nothing about it, but additional CCW is an option for it.

Chronos; Like it simply for buffing units.
Only problem is its lack of speed.
Again though, the buffing will help to no end since i can get FC quicker on my wyches, or boost any unit that needs help.
Would be nice to run one with both vortex and syphon, since if you get a kill with both its 2 tokens in theory, meaning faster unit buffing.
The fact they are AP 3 and both templats (varying) mean they could do some nice damage.

Mixed feelings with these though, would be nice for a large monster in the list, but just not sure of thier ability to cope in a competative enviroment.


Think thats it for now, may have to look through again later on and see if i missed anything.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:

Snip...... Phil made such a deviously evil, and under noticed codex. I love this book.

So i was right in thinking you can hurl all 4 missiles in the same turn?

Yup, of course you could. Why couldn't you?

Never used single shot weapons in my life, so havent checked for any rules on them other than the obvious one.
Granted 4 would be overkill at the same unit, so chances are it would be 2 a turn.

So, 3 of these can throw out 12 templates on turn 1.
Would be nice to face orks or swarm nids

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Never used single shot weapons in my life, so havent checked for any rules on them other than the obvious one.
Granted 4 would be overkill at the same unit, so chances are it would be 2 a turn.

So, 3 of these can throw out 12 templates on turn 1.
Would be nice to face orks or swarm nids

There aren't a lot of one shot weapons on vehicles, and the only other one I know of that has more than one is the Valkyrie/Vendetta, both of which can have two one shot ordnance weapons, so they can't move while shooting them, or fire more than just one per turn. I suppose the Skyray might, I haven't looked at the Tau codex in a long time. The Voidraven and Razorwing missiles, however, aren't ordnance, so you can fire them all in one go, after deepstriking or going cruising speed. Not necessarily the best idea to fire them all at once, unless there's a clump of horde units in one place, so you can hit multiple units with clever blast template placement and lucky scatters. Or if you're facing horde guard, and your opponent's grouped an entire platoon into one squad, so you could inflict close to 200 points of damage in one volley...


Another thing to consider are Hellions with the Baron. They might look a little underwhelming at first glance (which is also good because your opponent can easily underestimate them because of it), but scoring jump troops with 18" assault 2 splinter weapons and three S4 attacks on the charge, plus combat drugs, are a pretty solid choice. Sort of a middle ground between warriors and wyches, that sacrifice a little firepower for more mobility, and a little survivability in close combat for higher offense. Get furious charge on them and they'll be hitting at S5, roll lucky on the combat drug roll and they'll start there, with FC bringing them up to S6. Just make sure each unit has a phantasm grenade launcher on a helliarch, since they lack assault grenades, except for the unit you stick the Baron with, since he has one already.

Funnily enough i have been tinkering with helions allready.
Havent use dthe baron with them yet though.

thus far they are pretty decent, getting some nice results.
Have however taken a stunclaw with them now though since it helps alot.
Ive found alot of players buff units with a character, so dragging him out of the unit and killing him off helps to no end.
Actually been using this on a 5 man suicide unit lately to get sang priests away from units lol.

BuFFo wrote:Try this... Infiltrate Mandrakes in a congo line towards your opponent, but attached with a Heamonculus. Turn 1, leave the heamonculus, take the pain token, and stat moving towards the enemy in cover. This forces the opponent to use a portion of his army to deal with mandrakes, which as a bait unit will let your other, easier-to-kill threats live longer. I have had players ignore Mandrakes untill they assault long fangs on turn two, or assault vehicles and punch them into a stunned state.

Mandrakes are not for the inexperienced DE player. Which is why I love them.

6/10

But you can't infiltrate Mandrakes if they've got a Haemonculus attached. They lose Infiltrate if an IC is attached that doesn't also have it.

- Removed. Off-topic and inflammatory. Play nice, folks -

C'mon dash, you have to have used some random units from the book


Need more input before i start buying anything.
As it is ive hacked a FW blood slaughterer apart to make a talos (dislike GW's one)
Yet to really test it though, yet i doubt it will be anything special.

The chronos however, i need to try.

I think Harlies *may* (emphasis MAY) have a use as a melta delivery system and assault crew that doesn't mandate the expensive and fragile Reavers, but I'm not sold on the idea. Other than that, they're only really good as a WWP delivery service.

Here are my thoughts on Bloodbrides and the Voidraven...

If you are running a good number of Warrior squads I think Bloodbrides are the better choice. They are only marginally more in cost than Wyches and hit harder in close combat due to being able to take an extra Wyche weapon plus the +1A. I would never count on a squad of Wyches to hold an objective late in the game. I've already got a solid number of scoring units in my Warrior units so the Bloodbrides work better for me and I only run one unit. If you are fielding multiple units then the Wyches are a better choice.

On the subject of the Voidraven I run two of them over three Ravagers because I play against lots of MEQ armies that feature landraiders. The S9 lance is much better at penetrating AV14 obviously. I also like to use the mines (only scatter d6")... They can be quite lethal late in the game if you can manage to keep your Voidravens up and running. Certainly if you're not facing lots of AV14 then three Ravagers is the better choice.

Ill have to give harlies a test run, but thus far ive only looked at them on paper, and points wise they seem pretty heavy for what they can do.

Bloodbrides though, i am now sold on them.
Ran a test game with them today and ended up playing orks.
Granted they are T4, but none the less they did pretty damn well.

Also, a quick note: Kan walls really do fall apart very quickly to 13 dark lances and random blaster shots lol.



Still doing a few sketches of scourges at the moment before i make a unit, want to get them tested out as soon as possible.
Seem expensive, but i may get a use from them, other than the sheer volume of shots they fire.


Talos: Got a blog ive just started on here now of its progress, so that will be tested soon too.

- Removed. Off-topic and inflammatory. Play nice, folks -

Fetterkey wrote:I think Harlies *may* (emphasis MAY) have a use as a melta delivery system and assault crew that doesn't mandate the expensive and fragile Reavers, but I'm not sold on the idea. Other than that, they're only really good as a WWP delivery service.

They're even worse than reavers as a melta delivery system, since they're infantry that can't take a dedicated transport, cost only four points less than a reaver, and can only take 6" melta pistols. The only things that Harlequins are good at involve a shadowseer, and usually an IC with a webway portal. They're still ok in melee, but other things in the codex do it better and/or cheaper.

So all in all, ignore harlies and take brides if i want a CC elite unit?

Bloodbrides: A raider only holds 10 models, those 10 extra attacks the squad has makes it the equivalent of a 13 model wyche squad and is priced the same. In addition you have access to 3 special weapons + character instead of either 2 special weapons or only ONE and a character.

Voidraven/Ravenwing: Haven't seen this mentioned but they are NOT OPEN TOPPED. It makes a difference over the ravager.

Foo wrote:

BuFFo wrote:Try this... Infiltrate Mandrakes in a congo line towards your opponent, but attached with a Heamonculus. Turn 1, leave the heamonculus, take the pain token, and stat moving towards the enemy in cover. This forces the opponent to use a portion of his army to deal with mandrakes, which as a bait unit will let your other, easier-to-kill threats live longer. I have had players ignore Mandrakes untill they assault long fangs on turn two, or assault vehicles and punch them into a stunned state.

Mandrakes are not for the inexperienced DE player. Which is why I love them.

6/10

But you can't infiltrate Mandrakes if they've got a Haemonculus attached. They lose Infiltrate if an IC is attached that doesn't also have it.

You are right, and I messed up, but it still works just fine.

Deploy your army. Make sure your heamonculi is as far forward as possible. Infiltrate your mandrakes in a congo line.

Turn 1 move the Mandrakes and Heamonculi forward. Join them together. You aren't assaulting anything this turn regardless.

Turn 2, remove the Heami, and assault with Mandrakes.\

It's faerie magic!

- Personal attack removed. Please review Dakka's rules... particularly those concerning being polite and not attacking other posters -

I've had to edit several posts in this thread. I would rather not have to do so again. Play nice, or leave it alone.