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Having seen other people's army lists get shredded for taking too many gadgets, i removed the most-hated gadgets and downgraded to a Shas'el

Shas'el
PR, ABFP,
TA, H/W MT, H/W DC, Shield Drone
120pts

2x Fireknife Crisis Suits
(MP, PR & MT)
124pts

2x Crisis
MP, FB, MT
108pts

6x Stealth Suits
FB
182

12 FW
120

12 FW
120

12 FW
120

6 Pathfinders
Devilfish
D pod
157

6 pathfinders
Devilfish
D pod
157

3 Piranhas
FBs
D pods
210

Railhead
SMS, D pod, MT
175

2x Sniper Drone Teams
160

No broadsides because my broadsides have failed me too many times, and my snipers haven't had enough time out of the case...

1750 points, and no broadsides?

Okay, I'd like you to expound on why broadsides fail you too many times. At points above 1500, I would consider at least 3 absolutely mandatory, taking precedence to hammerheads even. I'd get rid of your hammerhead (and possibly stealth suits) to make room for broadsides.

Broadsides are in general, the absolute most reliable anti-tank tool that the Tau have access to.

Your crisis suits look find. I'm not a fan of your commander. The AFP doesn't go with the PR that well, I'd suggest the AFP with another troop-killy weapon, possibly the CIB.

At these points, I'd dump the one fire warriror unit. They won't have a devilfish to protect them, and so they will probably waste away rather quickly...

Pathfinders and piranhas look fine, could you possibly make the pathfinder's devilfish into warfish?

Beyond all that, I like sniper drone teams, don't let people discourage you from using them!

I wouldn't sue stealth suits unless your opponents continue to fail to understand how to kill them easily... as long as you have success with them, use them, as soon as they start becoming a points sink that die early on, trash them. Most people hate them as the Tau already have plenty of S5 AP5 weaponry...

If you keep the stealth suits, I'd get rid of the Fusion Blaster. It detracts from the focus of the unit.

My broadsides record of achievement consists of 1 monolith, a few transports, some drop pods, too many shaken/stunned results and rolling up more 1s than i have ever had another unit pump out
their methods of death are more varied that their damage results, las, plas, melta, excessive firepower, hunter-killers, krak missiles,
they usually survive turn one but not turn two
290pts for a unit of 3 w/ ASS and some shield drones? for a slow, prime target?
for the same points i can take two units from this army list, i would rather take some shiny sentry drone turrets or a barracuda, even tho the flyer rules are broken (in my favour)

The commander has that loadout because changing the model would require more effort than it is worth. the AFP was stuck on with more than enough glue.

For the stealths, i like to leave my options open, and a melta to the rear armour is an unpleasant surprise, and i always take him off first if he hasn't got a decent target

The third fire warrior unit lurks in reserve to jump onto my home objective when they pop up, or provides support fire from the board edge, they are my security when playing with objectives

Id like warfishes, but the 40pt increase and buying 2x weapon sprues to make them isn't pleasant (>£16 for 4 missile pods)

You can't take a unit because you roll pitifully with them. If braodsides don't pop transports and whatnot for you, you may as well not take anything AT.

I don't have experience with FW, so I can't argue anything in that area.

Broadsides shouldn't go down to HK missiles as they have a 2+ save, and broadsides should usually go with shield drones to save them from other AP2 things. Broadsides aren't a bad unit, you just have to learn how to keep them alive. Usually in polls, there are 2 Tau units praised. #1, Crisis Suits, #2 Broadsides.

For the warfishes, I use the SMS from my Hammerhead Sprue (with a little conversions) and give it to them, while I let my hammerheads use BCs.

As for the fire warriors, fair enough.

The Bringer wrote:You can't take a unit because you roll pitifully with them.

That is exactly what i am doing
i am not taking a unit that i roll badly with

however,
what would you advise swapping out for the broadsides?

Dropping the HQ to a Shas'el is a good choice (saves points)

I would drop 3 of those stealth suits...Honestly, I could count all the troops my Stealth Suits have killed on two hands (lol)

I would drop the second squad of Pathfinders also

That leaves you with 247 free points...there's another railhead with burst cannons and a devilfish for a squad Firewarriors. Or, you could have the Hammerhead take an Ion Gun, and you can keep the SMS.

....I think my points are right...I'm at work and don't have my 'dex on hand, and those are the major alternatives to taking Broadsides I can think of right now

I just don't understand why you don't like the 'sides! They're my favorite units

good call on dropping most of the gadgets...few suggestions though:
drop the pathfinders, add marker drones to your stealth team. That will make them more cost effective, and save you points. Drop the sniper drones, as while their rail rifles are nice, with no JP rules they don't have relentless and thus are not a mobile force, which is something you seem to be a little unsure of with your list...you have a lot of mobile and a lot of static, but no way to make the static mobile if you need to short of the pathfinders devilfishes. Perhaps dropping the pathfinders you could use the devilfishes as dedicated trasnports for the FW, that way they'd be closer in the event the FW needed to relocate. Also you may want to increase the model count in your crisis squads. While not necessary, if you have the points more wounds on your 150+ point suit units is always a good thing...especially with the prevalence of plasma weapons in armies. Also, by dropping the sniper team and the pathfinders you should have enough points for another railgun or two in the form of broadsides...given the prevalence of armor out there. Finally, you may want to change the shield drone for a shield generator, as that way if you fail an invulnerable save you won't lose it altogether.

I would actually get a better HQ. Have a Shas'o with fusion blaster, plasma rifle (S6, AP2, beating any armour saves) & shield generator as compulsory. Also, on top you can have anything else from the battlesuit wargear section. I'd take multi-tracker, iridium armour, stimulant injector (special issue) and maybe a marker drone if you have a sky ray. This is all for about 160pts without marker drone and you've got a deepstriking indestructible war machine, getting behind the enemy, distracting them but also making epic damage, taking out vehicles and key targets. With an extra BS of the Shas'el more will hit & you'll make it a lot easier for your other men.

Here are my suggestions.


Shas'el

Drop the TA. He won't need it. My HQ rarely misses, and the times he does miss doesn't warrant 10 points.

2x Fireknife Crisis Suits

Max out this unit. You need 3 suits. They are what kill things in a Tau army.

2x Crisis suits

Same suggestion.

6x Stealth Suits

Drop for another unit of 3 crisis suits. Stealth suits just arent as good in my opinion.

12 FW

Minimize this unit unless you are taking fish of fury. I'd take 6 and free up 60 points for heavier hitting stuff.

12 FW

Same suggestion.

12 FW

Same suggestion.

6 Pathfinders
Devilfish
D pod

I like this.

6 pathfinders
Devilfish
D pod



3 Piranhas
FBs
D pods

While I don't like taking 3 in one squad, I see why you did it. Make sure you give them TAs or they are pretty worthless as far as killing things goes (1 shot as BS3, NTY).

Railhead
SMS, D pod, MT

Drop the SMS. For 10 less points you get 6 shots instead of 4 with the same profile.

2x Sniper Drone Teams

I hate sniper drones. You seem to like them, so whatever works for you. I love broadsides, but seeing as you are pretty agaisnt them I'll let it be.

love the list posted above

The Bloodbearer wrote:I would actually get a better HQ. Have a Shas'o with fusion blaster (meltagun), plasma rifle (S6, AP2, beating any armour saves) & shield generator(4+ IV save) as compulsory. Also, on top you can have anything else from the battlesuit wargear section. I'd take multi-tracker (firing both guns), iridium armour (2+armour save),

You post this stuff like no one knows about these basic items, and you're nearly giving away GW's Intellectual Property with the Wep stats. Every savvy tau player knows to give him Shield Drones instead of SGens.

The Bloodbearer wrote:stimulant injector (special issue giving you feel no pain)

... which is of no use, should the Inv Save fail against LAsCans, Pfists or meltas.

The Bloodbearer wrote: and you've got a deepstriking indestructible war machine,

... which will also insta-die when a Pfisted sgt gets out of his rhino, angry that your Shas'O broke his ride, and then the your HQ is tied up in h2h that he'll fail and be destroyed in.

I've been playing tau for 5 years and forum boards for that long, and I gotta say, your post is particularly lacking in anything additional to the thread.

The Bloodbearer wrote: getting behind the enemy, distracting them but also making epic damage, taking out vehicles and key targets. With an extra BS of the Shas'el more will hit and you'll make it a lot easier for your other men.

Most players get the Shas'el a Target Array to have the same BS at the Shas'O ... for less points than the Shas'O's cost.

He already has the MT in his list. Have you read the entire thread? Or even the Original Post?

ABFP is something I'm getting away from. It just doesn't hit hard enough. Broadsides are possibly the best model in our dex, don't gimp yourself.

Also, my stealth suits are where they belong. On the sprues.

Shame everyone seems to dislike Stealth Teams. They're lovely models. I'd at least assemble and paint them for display. Heck, I have a Lictor I'm unlikely to use in any of my armies (I lack the tactical genius required to use Lictors properly) but I'm still painting him.

Sure, great looking models, but they just lack the flexibility, mobility, firepower and survivability of XV8's.

The biggest problem is.. weaponry. The Burst Cannon is one of the worst weapons in the Tau arsenal. Fusion Blaster is great, but the range sucks.

Cottonjaw wrote:Sure, great looking models, but they just lack the flexibility, mobility, firepower and survivability of XV8's.

The biggest problem is.. weaponry. The Burst Cannon is one of the worst weapons in the Tau arsenal. Fusion Blaster is great, but the range sucks.

We're getting away from the OP's intent, but
Stealths would be okay to use as dedicated anti-I ... if they were Fast Attack or Troops, given their Infiltrate. They aren't bad, but it is really the taking up of a Crisis Suit FoC slot that earns our ire.

Squigsquasher, I'm with on the lictors, but I'll add, right now, they *have* no use in the current bug book. Too much like Black Holes. Enormous suckage.

Brothererekose wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:Sure, great looking models, but they just lack the flexibility, mobility, firepower and survivability of XV8's.

The biggest problem is.. weaponry. The Burst Cannon is one of the worst weapons in the Tau arsenal. Fusion Blaster is great, but the range sucks.

We're getting away from the OP's intent, but
Stealths would be okay it use as dedicated anti-I ... if they were Fast Attack or Troops, given their Infiltrate. They aren't bad, but it is really the taking up of a Crisis Suit FoC slot that eanrs our ire.

Squigsquasher, I'm with on the lictors, but I'll add, right now, they *have* no use in the current bug book. Too much like Black Holes. Enormous suckage.

Right, the topic, forgot to tie that in. The point is, 6 stealth suits is an extremely sad substitute for the intensely superior range, strength and survivability of XV88's. The models have the same ballistic skill, I can't see how a streak of bad luck with your Broadsides can cause you to totally disregard, in my opinion, the best model in our codex. Ditch your dice, carry a lucky rabbits foot, visit a witch doctor.... whatever.. just don't shelf the XV88's.

Also, if you don't have room for a devilfish for a squad of fire warriors... better to spend those points on Kroot. Without a fish, the FW just aren't mobile or survivable enough to be an effective scoring unit.

And... I personally would take a CIB or MP on the commander of an ABFP. Unless you consistently face a lot of horde armies. Personally, all I see is seas upon seas of TEQ's and MEQ's.. so.. yeah.