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50% of all my games i've played have been against 2 different friends of mine. They're both great guys. One has gotten into it hard and has now won 4/5 tournaments he's been in. He's an amazing player and knows the rules. Every time i play him it's a blast. The other friend i play is a great guy. I enjoy playing him but he's got a few quirks. One of the ones that get me and him into a lot of fights is movement. He is very loose with him movement and can easily can an inch a movement by accident. Last time we played i had to argue with him for 5 minutes about how a 1/4 of an inch matters in game. I told him to scoot back a little bit during deployment. That he was a little over the line. He told me it didn't matter and why was i arguing over a quarter of an inch. I told him that i was just trying to get ready for tournament games where it would matter. He retorted with "Yeah, there will be rule nazi's there too i guess".

He gets pissed whenever i point out line of sight i disagree with or movement. He's been 1/2 an inch off in assault and threatened to stop playing if i didn't just let him assault. I admit sometimes i can enjoy the cheesy win of rules laywering but i don't do it too often. I guess, my big question is. Am i wrong for saying 1/2 an inch is huge in this game and please measure more carefully?

Let him go to a high level tournament. He'll be called on cheating/rules bending/complaining and get slammed on sports.

"Baptism of Fire" might be the best approach

No, your friend is being a jerk. Why not have movement stats of 6 1/2 inches then? Do inadvertent measurement errors occur? Sure. If they happen every time you move they are no longer mistakes.

Personally I would stop playing him until he grows up and stops abusing the rules just because he can.

One phrase that can help is "if it's not a big deal, you shouldn't mind moving back."

Everytime they do something you disagree with, if they claim it's not a big deal, just say that.

You're not a rules lawyer. He's a cheater.

Tabo wrote:Am i wrong for saying 1/2 an inch is huge in this game and please measure more carefully?

You are 100% correct. The game has rules. Play by them.

1/2 Of a inch each turn by six turn is another movement all together, 1/2 inch when you consolidate would make your troop hit a lot more target and so on
1/2 of inch is also important for rapid fire

themocaw wrote:You're not a rules lawyer. He's a cheater.

That's exactly it.

Although when looking at the title i was just going to put "If you have to ask then yes"

But realistically, no, he is cheating by not playing the rules. If it is happening more often than once a game, it isn't an accident, and it does matter.

Retrias wrote:1/2 Of a inch each turn by six turn is another movement all together, 1/2 inch when you consolidate would make your troop hit a lot more target and so on
1/2 of inch is also important for rapid fire

Aye, if maths can prove something significant like that, then it needs to be sorted. You can forgive a couple of mistakes, but when it gets frequent then it's a problem.

It happens a lot. I mean, when we first were playing i didn't care. I was still learning. But i've gotten to the point where i want to gear up for things like Adepticon and i can't get better when 30 minutes a game i'm arguing with him over a few inches. He gets all pissed and it just ruins the game.

Also, I've tried saying that he shouldn't care if it isn't a big deal and he just replies by saying "I'm not following the spirit of the game" It pisses me off so much.

Tabo wrote:

Also, I've tried saying that he shouldn't care if it isn't a big deal and he just replies by saying "I'm not following the spirit of the game" It pisses me off so much.

If your friend is too lax on the rules, dont play him. Just ne honest and say it. Also realize that to many people someone who treats every game like a grand tournament is not fun to play. If you want that type of player, consider joining or starting a league.

IMO rules nazis are a step to becoming a total tool. Next you start berating other players because the shade of gray on their SW isnt right. Then its tearing down someones custom converted chapter master because the style of power sword they used doesnt fit the fluff from some half obscure book you read.

Bottom line...while its entirely possible your buddy is cheating, its also possible he just doesnt take it that seriously. Its also possible that you are taking a casual game between friends far too seriously. If you guys cant agree on things then just dont play each other.

If you take an extra inch or two with your move - what does your friend do? Does he let it pass or blow a gasket?

Playing by the rules does not make you a Ruleslawyer or TGF. Now abuse those rules might.

Considering the game can come down to less than 1/4 of an inch (this happened at a recent local tourney I went to) yes, any deviation matters. A LOT.

You are not a rules lawyer, you are just trying to play by the rules. Like others have said, don't play him if he consistently over measures and won't listen.

As far as I am concerned, the rules exist for a reason: to be used. They set a mutual set of guidelines by which both players must abide. If he doesn't mind a little extra movement here and there, fine, but he is technically cheating.

I have been accused of rules-lawyering in the same vein as you. What you do is not technically rules-lawyering to begin with (to my knowledge). A rules lawyer twists and turns the rules and argues every little nuance to his advantage. Just using the rules as they are written is in no way this practice.

As far as I am concerned, when you agree to play a game of 40k (or whatever other game) you are agreeing to follow the rules as laid out. Miniatures on foot move up to 6". Not 6.5", not 10". Rules is rules, like 'em or not.

...Now if you agree to play by a set of house rules, that's a whole other kettle O' fish.

Give an inch, they'll take a mile.

I find it satisfying to let an opponent get away with their cheats and still beat them.

Ask him to only move 5.5 inches and it should even out. Baring that just tell him that you don't enjoy playing with him if he over measures and his games with you are numbered unless he shapes up.

Either he measures at least his front guys exactly and keeps the rest of the troop in a moderate formation, or you stop playing with him.

That small distance isn't allowed by the CORE rules. This isn't some stupid random needed once in a hundred games rule, this is BASIC stuff.

You are adhering to what needs to be followed, your not a rules lawyer.

And don't worry, I only keep my opponents to adhear to the basics of the game and for everything else I let slide most of the time, unless it's game changing. I get called a rules lawyer by our resident two cheaters often, it's a common tactic for them to try to shove the blame your way.

You're not a rules Nazi. He's cheating. And he loses (immediately) for invoking Godwin's Law.

I wouldn't call him a cheater, just someone who cares less for the exact rules of the game and more for the fun aspect of playing.

I have a couple friends like that too. They aren't doing it for advantage, they just don't take the game seriously. After all, it is a game. None of us play tourneys, so we are all a little fast and loose with small measurements.

Sounds like this guy is the same way.

Tabo wrote:50% of all my games i've played have been against 2 different friends of mine. They're both great guys. One has gotten into it hard and has now won 4/5 tournaments he's been in. He's an amazing player and knows the rules. Every time i play him it's a blast. The other friend i play is a great guy. I enjoy playing him but he's got a few quirks. One of the ones that get me and him into a lot of fights is movement. He is very loose with him movement and can easily can an inch a movement by accident. Last time we played i had to argue with him for 5 minutes about how a 1/4 of an inch matters in game. I told him to scoot back a little bit during deployment. That he was a little over the line. He told me it didn't matter and why was i arguing over a quarter of an inch. I told him that i was just trying to get ready for tournament games where it would matter. He retorted with "Yeah, there will be rule nazi's there too i guess".

He gets pissed whenever i point out line of sight i disagree with or movement. He's been 1/2 an inch off in assault and threatened to stop playing if i didn't just let him assault. I admit sometimes i can enjoy the cheesy win of rules laywering but i don't do it too often. I guess, my big question is. Am i wrong for saying 1/2 an inch is huge in this game and please measure more carefully?

If he doesn't abide by the rules, then you're each playing a game by different rules. If he wants to fudge rules, tell him to go play hockey.

I'm really strict on movement and charge distances. But one of my primary opponents plays 'Nids and I need every spare 1/4" available to keep him from assaulting my poor Space Elves.

1/2 an inch is a huge margin. If it was an 18th of an inch or something like that I'd have to bust your balls for that one.

Tabo wrote:It happens a lot. I mean, when we first were playing i didn't care. I was still learning. But i've gotten to the point where i want to gear up for things like Adepticon and i can't get better when 30 minutes a game i'm arguing with him over a few inches. He gets all pissed and it just ruins the game.

Also, I've tried saying that he shouldn't care if it isn't a big deal and he just replies by saying "I'm not following the spirit of the game" It pisses me off so much.

then you don't need to be playing against him anymore.

The point of the game is fun. If you're not having fun playing him, then there's your problem.

Thanks you guys. You've made me feel a lot better about whats going on. Next time we play i'm just going to smile and take it like a man. If he argues anything with me i'll just concede it to him. After that i just wont play him again. He's a casual player and i guess i'm just passed that already. I have fun playing casual but i want to go into the game knowing that and not have him gloat when he starts to win.

Tabo wrote:Thanks you guys. You've made me feel a lot better about whats going on. Next time we play i'm just going to smile and take it like a man. If he argues anything with me i'll just concede it to him. After that i just wont play him again. He's a casual player and i guess i'm just passed that already. I have fun playing casual but i want to go into the game knowing that and not have him gloat when he starts to win.

Why even play him again at all?

Really the conversation when he asks you to play again should begin and end with "no thanks, we have different expectations for this game and I just don't enjoy playing against you."

As the others said, following the rules is not a TFG Rules Lawyering. TFG Rules Lawyering is looking for loopholes in the rules by RAW to try and gain an advantage. Getting someone to move the proper distance is not rules lawyering, saying that Wraithguard can't shoot, because they have no eyes, and you can't measure TLOS without the model having eyes is rules lawyering.