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darwinn69 wrote:For small unit combat modern US military wins hands down. Why? We outrange everything they have by miles. Everything is 32" scale. That means the maximum range of a lasgun is 64 feet. On the weapons qualification range the closest target that we start shooting at is 50 feet, and goes all the way up to 500 feet...accuratly.

Thats also not including our highly accurate mortar fire (we hit our targets way more than 1/3 of the time). More integerated support elements (multiple gernade launchers and machine guns equiped as standard) where as the IG special wepons are designed to take out Sci-Fi targets which have no equivilant today making them useless.

Please check the stats on lasguns in dark heresy for ranges and comparisons to modern weapons. (lasgun has short range of 100 m, up to 400 m normal accuracy... and can hit much farther than that just you have higher penalties to hit that far out, no full max range is ever given on a lasgun. And this is just a standard pattern cheap/civilian lasgun, many have longer ranges... and longlas and lascannon are way further, 600 m and 1,200 m respectively for normal accuracy.) Vs. an M-4 carbine (what we are currently switching too in the U.S. military) which maxes effective at 500 m for a point target and 600 m for an area target. (With loss of accuracy after aprox. 275 m similiar to a lasgun at the 400 m range.) Note the M16 was more accurate, but is being phased out, with max effective of about 550 m (point target), 800 m (area target). (They had less accuracy problems with the M16, as it did not have the shorter barrel of the M-4 carbine.)

They use balancing issues in 40k itself to keep the battle from just being IG standing on their side of the table and firing one massive burst and autowinning every time due to the mathmatics. (Cause if they listed the accurate range in inches on the table, all IG players would just do full infantry platoons for all their points... not even bother on tanks/vehicles/special characters... just huge numbers of lasguns and lascannons.)

You honestly think the IG's special/heavy weapons are useless??? Lets see special weapons in a standard squad (note I broke down the likely platoon size group an IG force would use per the rules) one of the following per squad... a flamer (can you say flame thrower... we banned them for a reason in the Geneva conventions), gernade launcher (as accurate as their lasguns firing either frag which your armor will not even save against, or krak that will pretty much instant kill), sniper rifle (as nasty as ours if not worse), meltagun (superheated steam weapon that literally melts the person it hits, half the range of a lasgun... so 200 m accurately), plasmagun (think getting hit by a small sun... instantly kills you in a horrifying liquid/flame/plasma at the same range as the lasguns.)... and that is just the special weapons not even the heavy ones.... All of them save the sniper rifle and gernade launcher are going to be psychological weapons against our troops.

On Heavy weapons... again, each squad gets one. (And the U.S. infantry is not in the habit of giving one in every 10 person squad, save maybe a machine gun which the IG armor can shrug off 1/3rd of the time.) They either have mortars, (that are just as good as ours) an autocannon (High calibre heavy machine gun, which ignores your armor, massive range), a Heavy bolter (blows the people hit apart, massive range.), a missile launcher (this is similiar to ones we use), or a lascannon. (Anything it hits just vaporizes... huge range as discussed above.) Again you are looking at psychological weapons... the U.S. is used to people shooting .50 calibre rounds and gernades at troops... but someone using an anti-vehicle machine gun, or a weapon the vaporizes you or makes you explode that is a whole new ball game.

And please remember that the lasguns can fire at full auto as well as single shot and 3 round burst.


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Ok, let's look at how this would likely go in a RL scenario.

We will say the modern army is U.S. army 100 man (Infantry)
Six heavy (?) machine-guns (possibly 7.62mm ?, treat as Heavy stubber Str 4, AP 6, heavy 3)
18 light machine-guns (M249, str 3, ap none, assault 3)
78 assault rifles (M4, autogun)
18 grenade launchers (40mm underslung type, this would be treated as frag gernades at worst)
Grenades and bayonets are also carried but not listed. Some men may have a pistol

vs.
100 cadians. (standard infantry platoon, with heavy weapons and special as standard for platoon, no conscripts... no stormtroopers or ratling snipers or the like.)
9 leader with special pistols/boltguns
1 guardsman with heavy flamer
3 guardsman with meltagun
4 guardsman with flamer
6 guardsman with sniper rifle
1 guardsman with gernade launcher
8 heavy weapons teams with heavy bolters
7 heavy weapons teams with autocannons
3 heavy weapons teams with lascannons
2 heavy weapons teams with missile launcher

I am going to give the first turn to the U.S. army (though by no means is this guarenteed, using the turn system to make it easier to calculate, and giving the modern army the advantage therein.)

Army sends 1/2 force to flank while using the rest of their troop supressive fire (including half the light machine guns and all the heavy ones) to give their people a chance to move through cover while their opponents heads are down. (standard tactic.)

IG ignores the suppresive fire willing to take the hits to get their targets. Of the 66 Str 3 shots, and 18 Str 4 shots (not close enough range at start to get the rapid fire bonus on shots.) half will hit... so 33 and 9 hits respective... note by 40k rules all U.S. military weapons would be considered primitive, so armor value is doubled vs. them. So that give a Armor save of 4+ for the IG. So 17 Str 3 make it though and 5 Str 4. Wounding 12. But making the U.S. military look a bit shocked as most of the troops shrugged off their shots.

IG's turn. Fires back 32 lasgun shots (str3), 9 boltguns (str 4), 3 meltaguns (Str 8), 6 sniper rifles (Str X), 1 grenade launcher (str 3, assault 1 blast), 8 heavy bolters (str 5, heavy 3), 7 autocannons (str 7, heavy 2), 3 Lascannons (str 9), 2 missile launchers (str 4 heavy 1 blast) (Note 5 of the guardsmen do not even get to shoot back due to using flamers)

So 18 str 3 hits (averaging 2 under blast of the grenade launcher), 3 sniper hits, 6 str 4 hits (4 bolter, and 2 under one template of one frag missile.), 1 str 8 meltagun hit, 12 Str 5 hits, 7 str 7 hits, and 1 str 9 hit. (Note I am being nice and rounding down on the heavy weapon team hits.) For a total of 34 wounds, many of which are their people being blown apart or vaporized... not to mention the sheer shock value of the types of weapons used against them.

So after the first round the IG have lost 12 to the modern army losing a third of their force. The U.S. army would get the heck out of there fast after that first slavo, as that is well beyond acceptable losses.

Now that is using standard tactics... same situation with the U.S. army just opening up full bore the first round would increase the IG losses to about 20 and lowering the U.S. armies losses to about 30. Still not acceptable by U.S. army standards, and the attrition would continue from there in the IG favor.

Although I realistically think that any modern military would win based on weapon for weapon and armor for armor, we hands down lose in psychology.

In Vietnam, there were an estimated 50,000 bullets fired per kill. And in Iraq and Afghanistan it is an estimated 250,000 (that seems a bit high to me). That's all because the people don't want to kill other people, it's very hard to get someone to do that. You can read stories from the start of warfare to modern times of soldiers just NOT fighting (or more recently, just shooting at nothing) because they don't want to kill somebody. That doesn't really happen in 40K.

Why can't people understand that we don't win on weaponry or armor? We are only superior in the basic training we give our troops, which is quickly outclassed by the training of 40k officers, and the experience the average Guardsmen obtains over a single year.

You can't use in-game rules for this, there are none for the modern day military.

sekerra wrote:Please check the stats on lasguns in dark heresy for ranges

By dark heresy's standards, modern weapons would have a mere 90 meter range, compared to the 100 for lasguns. Dark Heresy is basically meant to be played at 0-100m firefights (basically knife fights), not beyond. Lets close combat classes actually work.

This is the same reason the lasgun's battery isn't very good i dark heresy as well, it'd be unbalanced and there'd be little reason to have any other weapon (ammunition costs money, something most characters don't have much of, this being 40k). Also the same reason flamers in dark heresy have a mere 20 meter range-- if they were realistic they'd have a ~75 meter range, but that would be unbalanced given the ranges given to other weapons.


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Shrike325 wrote:Although I realistically think that any modern military would win based on weapon for weapon and armor for armor

So you're saying that inferior weapons win over superior ones?

Hell even the Imperial military equivalent to solid ammunition weapons, the autogun, is superior to our weapons, which would be considered inferior civilian stub weaponry. High quality stub weaponry, but still inferior to an auto weapon, which is far more reliable (jams far less, more accurate, greater rate of fire, while being incredibly durable and rugged compared to modern weapons-- almost to the level of lasguns, which can be left laying on the ground for a year in rain, snow, what have you and then be picked up and fired without any cleaning).

LordWynne wrote:Been there done that, point wise the 21st century army is cheaper and gets more armor and hvy weapons. Buy the IG gain one thing that means the differance (pysker's and special chars) this offers the best chance of a win. But the role of a 21st century army focuses on eliminating HQ and hvy armor to give its land forces the advantage.

And when the Imperium takes away precision guided munitions by blowing the GPS network to kingdom come?

Win goes to 21st century.....in a point battle I played a 2,000 pt game at 2001 Adepticon vs several IG armies and won every time with a 21st century army.

Care to show us these rules? Somehow I doubt they're even remotely close to reality.

I'd like to point out that you are saying modern armies have more tanks and heavy weapons than the IG. Yeah...right.


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Shrike325 wrote:Although I realistically think that any modern military would win based on weapon for weapon and armor for armor, we hands down lose in psychology.

Lasgun > Assault RIfle.
Flak Armor > Body Armor

In Vietnam, there were an estimated 50,000 bullets fired per kill. And in Iraq and Afghanistan it is an estimated 250,000 (that seems a bit high to me). That's all because the people don't want to kill other people, it's very hard to get someone to do that. You can read stories from the start of warfare to modern times of soldiers just NOT fighting (or more recently, just shooting at nothing) because they don't want to kill somebody. That doesn't really happen in 40K.

It wasn't because they didn't want to kill people, it was because crap tons of that ammo was wasted on supressive fire. Though you do continue to show how the Imperium is going to have an advantage based on logistics. A modern army is going to have to be bringing those hundreds of thousands of rounds forward. The Imperium won't.

I think that at the end of the day, we would win.

The IG has nothing compared to the SAS or the SEALS. Better trained, more combat XP, superior weapons not to mention Apache or equivalent air support would mean that the IG would just get smashed.

Even the US and UK grunts have better weapons and more extensive training.

Yeah, the IG have more bodies, but in a straight up 100 v 100 scrap, the IG would lose horribly.

And as for the Tank v Tank argument, meh. The modern A1 Abrams would run rings around a Leman Russ or equivalent IG tank. Not to mention the HEAT or SABOT rounds that an A1 can pump out at full speed with a deadly accuracy. Hell the Leman Russ would probably struggle against a WWII Tiger II. The following is taken from notes made during the Tiger II's R&D........

"During practice, the estimated probability of a first round hit on a 2 m (6 ft 7 in) high, 2.5 m (8 ft 2 in) wide target only dropped below 100 percent at ranges beyond 1,000 m (0.62 mi), to 95–97 percent at 1,500 metres (0.93 mi) and 85–87 percent at 2,000 m (1.2 mi), depending on ammunition type. Recorded combat performance was lower, but still over 80 percent at 1,000 m, in the 60s at 1,500 m and the 40s at 2,000 m. r."

That equates to a truly kick ass piece of weaponry!

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:I think that at the end of the day, we would win.

I can't believe it... has IQ drop while I was away?

The IG has nothing compared to the SAS or the SEALS. Better trained, more combat XP, superior weapons not to mention Apache or equivalent air support would mean that the IG would just get smashed.

Stormtrooper squads, Kasrkin squads ( which are genetically enhanced ) not to mention Valkyrie gunship...

Even the US and UK grunts have better weapons and more extensive training.

No, Guardsman training last for 4-6 months then they go to battlefield. And their training includes learning your equipment, enemy ( we have nothing about aliens ) and combat tactics. Children on Cadia know to disassemble Lasgun at the age of 5, I don't know any kid on Earth that have 5 years and know how to disassemble M4 or AK-47

Yeah, the IG have more bodies, but in a straight up 100 v 100 scrap, the IG would lose horribly.

No, Ig has 10.000+ years of combat experience. And better equipment and orbital support...

And as for the Tank v Tank argument, meh. The modern A1 Abrams would run rings around a Leman Russ or equivalent IG tank. Not to mention the HEAT or SABOT rounds that an A1 can pump out at full speed with a deadly accuracy. Hell the Leman Russ would probably struggle against a WWII Tiger II. The following is taken from notes made during the Tiger II's R&D........

What are you smoking lately? Leman Russ body is build from this: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Plasteel. This material is so strong it can withstand shot from Eldar Fire Prism. And that's PLASMA shot with 6.000+ Celsius degrees. And Leman Russ may look like WW1 tank, but giving the variants, the punishment that can take and sheer amount of firepower it can yield ( Vanquisher upgrade enables him to fire powerful AT shells at incredible speed at more incredible range ). nothing we have today can even scratch Leman Russ armor, and IG have them like Chinese rice...

"During practice, the estimated probability of a first round hit on a 2 m (6 ft 7 in) high, 2.5 m (8 ft 2 in) wide target only dropped below 100 percent at ranges beyond 1,000 m (0.62 mi), to 95–97 percent at 1,500 metres (0.93 mi) and 85–87 percent at 2,000 m (1.2 mi), depending on ammunition type. Recorded combat performance was lower, but still over 80 percent at 1,000 m, in the 60s at 1,500 m and the 40s at 2,000 m. r."

That equates to a truly kick ass piece of weaponry!

You never head about Titans? With one Titan Imperium can hold Entire planet, with 3 entire star system...Their weaponry can level down entire cities in several shots...not that's the firepower

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
The IG has nothing compared to the SAS or the SEALS. Better trained, more combat XP, superior weapons not to mention Apache or equivalent air support would mean that the IG would just get smashed.

Stormtroopers.

Even the US and UK grunts have better weapons and more extensive training.

A lasgun is far superior to any assault rifle. Easier to maintain and supply, while at the same time, more powerful.

Yeah, the IG have more bodies, but in a straight up 100 v 100 scrap, the IG would lose horribly.

As has been shown, even at the hundred man level, the IG will be willing to push long after a modern army has broken and run. In a longrange firefight, it'll be even.

And as for the Tank v Tank argument, meh. The modern A1 Abrams would run rings around a Leman Russ or equivalent IG tank. Not to mention the HEAT or SABOT rounds that an A1 can pump out at full speed with a deadly accuracy. Hell the Leman Russ would probably struggle against a WWII Tiger II.

The Leman Russ is a shockingly manuverable piece of equipment. You're assuming the IG doens't have HEAT or SABOT, when we know that they have differing types of ammunition. We also know that modern vehicles can EASILY have aermor that can stand up to HEAT rounds. ERemember, we don't know what IG Armor is, only that it's a certain thickness. THat doesn't tell us much. Given its description as adamantium and ceramite it certainly sounds the equal of modern composite armor, but propbably better do to superior materials.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:The IG has nothing compared to the SAS or the SEALS.

Stormtroopers are better than either, having been trained practically from birth in a far harsher environment than either. Stormtroopers have to try to sneak up on ELDAR.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Better trained, more combat XP, superior weapons

Questionble, no, and no. The Imperium has FAR more combat experience than any nation on the planet, and individual guard regiments go through more wars than America has had in its entire history... in less than a decade. And Imperial weapons are VASTLY superior to ours.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:not to mention Apache or equivalent air support

Inferior to valkyries and Imperial Navy gunships.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Even the US and UK grunts have better weapons and more extensive training.

No, they do not.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Yeah, the IG have more bodies, but in a straight up 100 v 100 scrap, the IG would lose horribly.

No they wouldn't.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:And as for the Tank v Tank argument, meh. The modern A1 Abrams would run rings around a Leman Russ or equivalent IG tank.

Except that it wouldn't. Both have equivalent speeds, but the Abrams is inferior in every other aspect except MAYBE in electronics.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote: Not to mention the HEAT or SABOT rounds that an A1 can pump out at full speed with a deadly accuracy.

Inferior to the Leman Russ' armaments.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Hell the Leman Russ would probably struggle against a WWII Tiger II.

You are saying stupid things. Are you trolling?

This is just silly. I don't want to call people fanboys, because there are probably some among you who have actually served in the military and that's great, but you're being stubborn here. Obviously the IG has better technology than any equivalent in the modern army. The only reason you can't grasp that is because you're comparing either real life or observed experience with our actual weapons and vehicles, to the rules in a miniatures game. The rules do not reflect what these pieces of equipment would do in reality.

Here's something that should help people grasp the concept: Do you think that our modern day army would win in a similar fight against Eldar? Barring obviously incorrect claims of "SHURIKEN CATAPULTS HAVE A RANGE OF 20 METERS HURR DURR", I don't think anyone is going to claim that our technology is superior to that of the Eldar. Their weapons are devastatingly powerful, their vehicles have a speed unmatched by anything we could have... and guess what? The IG competes with this level and is often able to beat them, even in a fight with even numbers. If they can beat the Eldar, they can beat us. So as far as equipment goes, there is really no argument. The IG has better.

Training, as has been said many times, depends on the regiment. Sure, some regiments of IG may be worse trained than modern soldiers... but to say that they have nothing that matches SAS/Seals? Forgetting their obviously superior equipment, Storm Troopers are taken from childhood, trained and indoctrinated their entire life, and do things that aren't even on our best's scope of possibility. In our modern day, we fight other men. These future heroes are fighting men too, billions of them. They are also fighting giant bugs, mutants, space elves, terminators (Space Marine), terminators (Arnold style), pissed off green dudes, etc. Not to mention the fact that they also do this on dozens of types of worlds, where obviously we are only experienced in fighting here on Earth (an argument could be made here that the STs get better but broader training, but our elites would be specialized in the type of fighting we would be doing here). We send in a team to take out Bin Laden in his fortified mansion. They send in a team to a planet teeming with a neverending horde of daemons carrying plagues worse than the worst experienced on Earth, to extract one man (and only lose on of their own, after the fact). They are simply better trained than anything we have today, again not to mention MUCH better equipped.

Also take the Imperial Navy, theres a book called Double Eagle (takes place in the Sabbat Crusade) and is about an imperial navy fighter squadron trying to slow down the chaos forces from over running a planet.

The PDF have fixed jet air craft very simular to modern fighters, the Vector engined imperial and chaos fighters littrally fly circles around them, mix in the fact that their planes have armour plating and better counter measures I can see the war in the air also being won by the IG.

My friend just figured out the best reason ever for the Imperial Guard winning:


In our present time, the God-Emperor of Man is still "alive". Try killing HIM with our "awesome" weapons...

Trolling? Maybe, maybe.....


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Seriously thou, do you guys not think that in all likelihood, if the IG suddenly appeared in the middle of,say, Utah, do you all not think that the US army would just shoot first and ask questions later?
They would launch missile strikes almost immediately! There would, in all probability, be no one left to fight back......Even if there were some IG left, the airstrikes sent in to mop up would finish them off....

Can anyone tell me the current arguments because I don't feel like reading the entire thread.

On-topic,IG stomps as they have much more powerful technology(Lasguns calcs put them in megajoules which is far above modern sidearms,40k Tanks are capable of taking weaponry calced from low gigajoule to middle triple gigajoules,flak armor capable of protecting from said Lasguns),then we have psykers etc....

That's all true, but we have the weapon of last resort. The A-Bomb..... And before you all start crowing about virus bombs etc etc, don't. I presume this little tete a tete will happen on Earth? If that's the case do you really think that the IG would virus bomb the planet of their ancestors and the current home of the Beloved Emporer? I don't think that they would....... Hopefully.......

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:That's all true, but we have the weapon of last resort. The A-Bomb..... And before you all start crowing about virus bombs etc etc, don't. I presume this little tete a tete will happen on Earth? If that's the case do you really think that the IG would virus bomb the planet of their ancestors and the current home of the Beloved Emporer? I don't think that they would....... Hopefully.......

This is a vs debate,the IG will happily destroy their ancestral home.

IvanTih wrote:

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:That's all true, but we have the weapon of last resort. The A-Bomb..... And before you all start crowing about virus bombs etc etc, don't. I presume this little tete a tete will happen on Earth? If that's the case do you really think that the IG would virus bomb the planet of their ancestors and the current home of the Beloved Emporer? I don't think that they would....... Hopefully.......

This is a vs debate,the IG will happily destroy their ancestral home.

Aye... time paradox is not a viable defense.

Nerivant wrote:

IvanTih wrote:

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:That's all true, but we have the weapon of last resort. The A-Bomb..... And before you all start crowing about virus bombs etc etc, don't. I presume this little tete a tete will happen on Earth? If that's the case do you really think that the IG would virus bomb the planet of their ancestors and the current home of the Beloved Emporer? I don't think that they would....... Hopefully.......

This is a vs debate,the IG will happily destroy their ancestral home.

Aye... time paradox is not a viable defense.

Let's just say that the Emperor created pocket universe and the Earth in it and placed IG on the planet.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Trolling? Maybe, maybe.....


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Seriously thou, do you guys not think that in all likelihood, if the IG suddenly appeared in the middle of,say, Utah, do you all not think that the US army would just shoot first and ask questions later?
They would launch missile strikes almost immediately! There would, in all probability, be no one left to fight back......Even if there were some IG left, the airstrikes sent in to mop up would finish them off....

No they wouldn't, they would ask questions first. If they destroy 100 guardsmen, what would they do against 1,000,000? Or against a Titan?

Yes. If a group of extraterrestrials landed, we'd probably ask questions first.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:That's all true, but we have the weapon of last resort. The A-Bomb..... And before you all start crowing about virus bombs etc etc, don't. I presume this little tete a tete will happen on Earth? If that's the case do you really think that the IG would virus bomb the planet of their ancestors and the current home of the Beloved Emporer? I don't think that they would....... Hopefully.......

Are we going to nuke the whole planet? We would likely surrender long before that ever happened, considering we were being attacked by other humans.

If that were to happen then we wouldn't be sitting on Earth, just some random planet we think is the homeworld of man.

Thanks for going off-topic.

Ummm the OP's original proposition was 100 IG versus 100 Modern day troops....So no, I'm not talking about nuking the whole planet. Just the 100 IG that started the whole spat in the first place.....:p

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:That's all true, but we have the weapon of last resort. The A-Bomb..... And before you all start crowing about virus bombs etc etc, don't. I presume this little tete a tete will happen on Earth? If that's the case do you really think that the IG would virus bomb the planet of their ancestors and the current home of the Beloved Emporer? I don't think that they would....... Hopefully.......

But they would arrive out of the blue and start killing everyone? I see. Are you 15 by chance?

Well what did you mean by using the Nuke as a last resort? 100 guardsmen would beat 100 marines but there's no way they could conquer the planet. When the 100 guardsmen won are you suggesting we nuke the survivors?

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:Ummm the OP's original proposition was 100 IG versus 100 Modern day troops....So no, I'm not talking about nuking the whole planet. Just the 100 IG that started the whole spat in the first place.....:p

The average 100 modern day troops wouldn't have access to nukes. If you want to bring nukes into the occasion, the Imperial Navy has better than that and you damned well believe they could pound us into submission without any risk to themselves.

No. In my defence I suggested that the nuke is a last resort. However, this is a discussion about a fictional time travelling invasion force of future humans attacking modern day earth.

The nuke, therefore is not out of the realms of possibility. Neither is the time paradox out of the question!

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:No. In my defence I suggested that the nuke is a last resort. However, this is a discussion about a fictional time travelling invasion force of future humans attacking modern day earth.

The nuke, therefore is not out of the realms of possibility. Neither is the time paradox out of the question!

Neither are the batteries of the Imperial Navy which are orders of magnitudes more powerful than nukes.

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:No. In my defence I suggested that the nuke is a last resort. However, this is a discussion about a fictional time travelling invasion force of future humans attacking modern day earth.

No it isn't. All it would mean is that this really isn't the birthplace of humanity, and that we're simply a lost colony of the Imperium that has recently been found which they wish to integrate into the larger Imperium.

It would have nothing to do with time travel.

I would give this to the Guard.

But to clarify lets draw it at US VS Cadians, and then catachans; i would go in more depth but i know little about the UK's armed forces.

With the cadians the armor is probably capable of stopping an m16 variation rifle round but i won't bet on it so neither infantryman is well protected; given that the lowly las rifle is still capable of removing limbs. May be the weakest tool for the job but it can still be a mean mother fether; not to mention more accurate & hold near infinite ammunition due to powerpacks recharge rate.

Now with the USA/MC you have a Kevlar vest; doubt it can stop a laser bolt so again we can assume not well protected. The M16 and variation rifles are complete gak. Sorry; no matter how much i like them in L4D that burst of patriotism doesn't make up for the fact that in real life they are hard to maintain, made for targets than are much softer than the Imp Guard, ammunition is a finite source, and it is not as accurate. Plus American armed forces lack the discipline of Guardsmen. Plus while i hate to say it; a good deal might panic and run from the laser rifle armed attackers that just blew giant holes in the chest of their friend.

USA vs Cadian shock troops i would give it to the Cadians. If in an open field, rank before rank firing like in an old school musket battle USA would lose more men to the las gun barrage before Cadians took casualties.

Catachans in the same scenario i can see taking more casualties due to being bare chested.

With adequate cover i would still give it to Guard but with fewer casualties. A standard firefight is cover to cover and trust me that seems to be something our armed forces suck at so that's what ya get.

@Melissia: in normal combat situations, no they would not. You are right, but in these kind of extreme situations then they may well have.
All it would take is an order from Mr.Obama, which I'm sure if time traveling armed men appeared and started shooting he would give, and boom!


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dirkthe1 wrote:

sarpedons-right-hand wrote:That's all true, but we have the weapon of last resort. The A-Bomb..... And before you all start crowing about virus bombs etc etc, don't. I presume this little tete a tete will happen on Earth? If that's the case do you really think that the IG would virus bomb the planet of their ancestors and the current home of the Beloved Emporer? I don't think that they would....... Hopefully.......

But they would arrive out of the blue and start killing everyone? I see. Are you 15 by chance?

An I see you did not read the OP's opening statement, which clearly says that it's '100 IG v 100 modern day troops. Now I presume by the 'versus' part of that that someone started shooting first...... Next time please read the thread title more clearly......