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Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

micahaphone wrote:I've already stated my views on the matter, but just as a little side note on the "do ghosts exist" side of the argument:

-While I'm not trying to prove whether or not you've seen something paranormal, many of the purported "hauntings" of older houses are actually caused by a little bit of caveman left in your brain. Basically, when you hear infrasound (sound with a lower frequency than you can normally hear), caused usually by old pipes or areas of resonance, your body goes into "alert" mode, as if a saber toothed tiger was hunting you. This leads to your body being "paranoid", in a sense, as it will detect threats and anomalies even when there are none, as this little bit of caveman left says "predator nearby. Be on the lookout".

To expand on this: certain frequencies can also vibrate the retina, causing minor visual hallucinations as one tries to interpret junk data indicating movement in the corner of one's eye. Here's a Cracked article for further elaboration.

What about the 'full-body apparitions' that some people see? I wouldn't call seeing an entire person who wasn't actually there a minor hallucination. Things happen and sometimes they can't be explained. Now the spots that people think are ghosts are usually dust or some kind of hallucination and maybe full blown bodies are as well, but little kids saying names that they've never heard before has no bit of survival instinct behind it.

Avatar- A lot people understood what people were objecting to. However If that is his opinion he should be able to say it. His ability to voice his opinion his views is more important than hurting peoples feelings. If you don't like what he says that's fine but stopping people from saying things because you dislike them is wrong.

4M2A wrote:However If that is his opinion he should be able to say it.

And he did.

4M2A wrote:If you don't like what he says that's fine but stopping people from saying things because you dislike them is wrong.

So people should be free to say what they want, unless what they want to say is in disagreement with what someone else already said? Doesn't seem very consistent. That doesn't seem very consistent at all.

Ahtman wrote:

4M2A wrote:However If that is his opinion he should be able to say it.

And he did.

4M2A wrote:If you don't like what he says that's fine but stopping people from saying things because you dislike them is wrong.

So people should be free to say what they want, unless what they want to say is in disagreement with what someone else already said? Doesn't seem very consistent. That doesn't seem very consistent at all.

That phrase is inconsistent. Inconsistent that is unless its said from inside the CRASSUS ARMORED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!

If his opinion is that religious people are afraid of the dark then my belief is that he should be able to say it.

I may not have been very clear but my second sentence was saying that not being able to say what you think because other people don't like isn't right- exactly the opposite of how ahtman took it. If you don't like someones opinion your free to judge them on it but they aren't wrong for voicing it.

4M2A wrote:If his opinion is that religious people are afraid of the dark then my belief is that he should be able to say it.

I may not have been very clear but my second sentence was saying that not being able to say what you think because other people don't like isn't right- exactly the opposite of how ahtman took it. If you don't like someones opinion your free to judge them on it but they aren't wrong for voicing it.

Thats fine and I am able to tell him to feth off. He's just jealous of people who can talk.

Yeah you can, none of these comments were aimed at you frazzled, you seem to understand freedom of speech better than many. However everyone saying he shouldn't be able to say that needs to remeber it's just his opinion, it only has as much importance as you give it.

So I should be able to say that he's a crazy old windbag who hasn't had the common decency to die, if that was my opinion?

He didn't state it as his opinion, it was stated as fact. He didn't say "I think it's a fairy story...", he said "that is a fairy story...".

If it was just 1 person that he insulted, it's likely that nobody would care, but he went and called the followers of several large religions (who will in turn make up a significant amount of the Earth's population) believers of fairy stories who are afraid of the dark.

How can it simply be laughed off when you've gone and poked fun at such a large amount of people? People make regular jokes about a single faith that they can class as their opinion, and even that causes discontent; what did Hawking expect to happen when he chose to say this? Everyone would laugh it off and be all "Ah Hawking, you so cray-zee!"?

I'm disallowed by law to voice any bad opinions about gay couples because of discrimination, why is it wrong if it's about a race or a sexual preference, but absolutely fine if it's a religion?

Avatar 720 wrote:He didn't state it as his opinion, it was stated as fact. He didn't say "I think it's a fairy story...", he said "that is a fairy story...".

This has already been covered.

How it's worded makes no difference. Without proof it's an opinion. Making everyone say " In my opinion..." before every sentence is going to get tiring very fast.

And what about the rest of the post?

Avatar 720 wrote:And what about the rest of the post?

I believe the rest of it has also been covered. I personally don't really want to get into it as I am at work and also don't have the time or inclination to discuss it

So I should be able to say that he's a crazy old windbag who hasn't had the common decency to die, if that was my opinion?
***Yes. But you have to say with the patented Clint Eastwood smirk.
He didn't state it as his opinion, it was stated as fact. He didn't say "I think it's a fairy story...", he said "that is a fairy story...".
***Its still his opinion. He's still free to "say" it.
If it was just 1 person that he insulted, it's likely that nobody would care, but he went and called the followers of several large religions (who will in turn make up a significant amount of the Earth's population) believers of fairy stories who are afraid of the dark.
***Again thats why we have the First Amendment. We are equally free to comment back.

How can it simply be laughed off when you've gone and poked fun at such a large amount of people? People make regular jokes about a single faith that they can class as their opinion, and even that causes discontent; what did Hawking expect to happen when he chose to say this? Everyone would laugh it off and be all "Ah Hawking, you so cray-zee!"?
***Its not laughed off. Use the First A to fire right back and call them the verminous dogs and wastes of skin that they are. In the words of the immortal bard: "What? Me?"

I'm disallowed by law to voice any bad opinions about gay couples because of discrimination, why is it wrong if it's about a race or a sexual preference, but absolutely fine if it's a religion?
***Actually thats not correct. Religion is protected just like color and creed under employment discrimination. All else is fair game. If people call you a drooling fatboy, thats their right too.

No be honest I don't believe in an afterlife.
When I die,I'll be dead so I won't be in any postion to care anymore.

Avatar 720 wrote:So I should be able to say that he's a crazy old windbag who hasn't had the common decency to die, if that was my opinion?

He didn't state it as his opinion, it was stated as fact. He didn't say "I think it's a fairy story...", he said "that is a fairy story...".

If it was just 1 person that he insulted, it's likely that nobody would care, but he went and called the followers of several large religions (who will in turn make up a significant amount of the Earth's population) believers of fairy stories who are afraid of the dark.

How can it simply be laughed off when you've gone and poked fun at such a large amount of people? People make regular jokes about a single faith that they can class as their opinion, and even that causes discontent; what did Hawking expect to happen when he chose to say this? Everyone would laugh it off and be all "Ah Hawking, you so cray-zee!"?

I'm disallowed by law to voice any bad opinions about gay couples because of discrimination, why is it wrong if it's about a race or a sexual preference, but absolutely fine if it's a religion?

There are laws against discrimination and hate speech about religion, so you put the case of Professor Hawking in the hands of the relevant authorities.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:So I should be able to say that he's a crazy old windbag who hasn't had the common decency to die, if that was my opinion?

He didn't state it as his opinion, it was stated as fact. He didn't say "I think it's a fairy story...", he said "that is a fairy story...".

If it was just 1 person that he insulted, it's likely that nobody would care, but he went and called the followers of several large religions (who will in turn make up a significant amount of the Earth's population) believers of fairy stories who are afraid of the dark.

How can it simply be laughed off when you've gone and poked fun at such a large amount of people? People make regular jokes about a single faith that they can class as their opinion, and even that causes discontent; what did Hawking expect to happen when he chose to say this? Everyone would laugh it off and be all "Ah Hawking, you so cray-zee!"?

I'm disallowed by law to voice any bad opinions about gay couples because of discrimination, why is it wrong if it's about a race or a sexual preference, but absolutely fine if it's a religion?

There are laws against discrimination and hate speech about religion, so you put the case of Professor Hawking in the hands of the relevant authorities.

Actually, outside of employment law and of course the free speech free zones that are college campuses, there aren't. Thats a good thing.

Frazzled wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:So I should be able to say that he's a crazy old windbag who hasn't had the common decency to die, if that was my opinion?

He didn't state it as his opinion, it was stated as fact. He didn't say "I think it's a fairy story...", he said "that is a fairy story...".

If it was just 1 person that he insulted, it's likely that nobody would care, but he went and called the followers of several large religions (who will in turn make up a significant amount of the Earth's population) believers of fairy stories who are afraid of the dark.

How can it simply be laughed off when you've gone and poked fun at such a large amount of people? People make regular jokes about a single faith that they can class as their opinion, and even that causes discontent; what did Hawking expect to happen when he chose to say this? Everyone would laugh it off and be all "Ah Hawking, you so cray-zee!"?

I'm disallowed by law to voice any bad opinions about gay couples because of discrimination, why is it wrong if it's about a race or a sexual preference, but absolutely fine if it's a religion?

There are laws against discrimination and hate speech about religion, so you put the case of Professor Hawking in the hands of the relevant authorities.

Actually, outside of employment law and of course the free speech free zones that are college campuses, there aren't. Thats a good thing.

There are in Europe.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:So I should be able to say that he's a crazy old windbag who hasn't had the common decency to die, if that was my opinion?

He didn't state it as his opinion, it was stated as fact. He didn't say "I think it's a fairy story...", he said "that is a fairy story...".

If it was just 1 person that he insulted, it's likely that nobody would care, but he went and called the followers of several large religions (who will in turn make up a significant amount of the Earth's population) believers of fairy stories who are afraid of the dark.

How can it simply be laughed off when you've gone and poked fun at such a large amount of people? People make regular jokes about a single faith that they can class as their opinion, and even that causes discontent; what did Hawking expect to happen when he chose to say this? Everyone would laugh it off and be all "Ah Hawking, you so cray-zee!"?

I'm disallowed by law to voice any bad opinions about gay couples because of discrimination, why is it wrong if it's about a race or a sexual preference, but absolutely fine if it's a religion?

There are laws against discrimination and hate speech about religion, so you put the case of Professor Hawking in the hands of the relevant authorities.

Actually, outside of employment law and of course the free speech free zones that are college campuses, there aren't. Thats a good thing.

There are in Europe.

And thats why we'll win!

Avatar 720 wrote:
I'm disallowed by law to voice any bad opinions about gay couples because of discrimination, why is it wrong if it's about a race or a sexual preference, but absolutely fine if it's a religion?

Well, the obvious answer is that religion is dumb, and homosexuality is awesome.

The serious answer is that homosexuality has more political influence than religion, because lots of people in Europe really dislike religious folk due to that whole 500 year period in which Christians ran roughshod over the continent; especially homosexuals.

That is why US freedom of speech laws are better than ours. That is law being biased. Besides insulting religions openly can get you in trouble.

Frazzled wrote:Its not laughed off. Use the First A to fire right back and call them the verminous dogs and wastes of skin that they are. In the words of the immortal bard: "What? Me?"

I laughed it off.

Maybe if people were less possessive of their abstract concepts, as Fraz has often suggested others should be, there would be less violence in the world.

Wow...
We've got:
1. Atheists/Agnostic people displaying anger towards religion and the defense of it,.
2. Religious people getting angry for "being insulted",
And the other guys.
Basically, it's turned into a slug fest of words.

Wat do?

Kasrkai wrote:Wow...
We've got:
1. Atheists/Agnostic people displaying anger towards religion and the defense of it,.
2. Religious people getting angry for "being insulted",
And the other guys.
Basically, it's turned into a slug fest of words.

Wat do?

I assume you're new here, if you look on the Off-Topic forum's previous threads discussing the topic of religion this is the norm rather than the exception.

Cheesecat wrote:

Kasrkai wrote:Wow...
We've got:
1. Atheists/Agnostic people displaying anger towards religion and the defense of it,.
2. Religious people getting angry for "being insulted",
And the other guys.
Basically, it's turned into a slug fest of words.

Wat do?

I assume you're new here, if you look on the Off-Topic forum's previous threads discussing the topic of religion this is the norm rather than the exception.

Most religions (Islam, Hindu, Christian) tend to preach tolerance.

Smells ironic in here.

And It's my first Dakka religion thing, but I debate Religion all the time. People around me say "spiritualist? You need moar Jezus.

Kasrkai wrote:
Most religions (Islam, Hindu, Christian) tend to preach tolerance.

[QUOTE=Leviticus 18:21 -22

You reference Christian but then only quote the Old Testament, and from the same book no less.

The other argument being that you found 3 sentences from fairly decent sized tomes. For each quote there are also ones that call for love, peace, and other hippie crap.

Well, there are plenty of goodies, but they tend to be too long for general forum reading.

Fafnir wrote:Well, there are plenty of goodies, but they tend to be too long for general forum reading.

Again, on both sides of the argument. It is almost as if it is a complicated issue and certainly not one where quoting three sentences would actually prove anything. To do such a thing would almost require a person to be purposefully antagonistic or to be myopic on the issue.

halonachos wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

micahaphone wrote:I've already stated my views on the matter, but just as a little side note on the "do ghosts exist" side of the argument:

-While I'm not trying to prove whether or not you've seen something paranormal, many of the purported "hauntings" of older houses are actually caused by a little bit of caveman left in your brain. Basically, when you hear infrasound (sound with a lower frequency than you can normally hear), caused usually by old pipes or areas of resonance, your body goes into "alert" mode, as if a saber toothed tiger was hunting you. This leads to your body being "paranoid", in a sense, as it will detect threats and anomalies even when there are none, as this little bit of caveman left says "predator nearby. Be on the lookout".

To expand on this: certain frequencies can also vibrate the retina, causing minor visual hallucinations as one tries to interpret junk data indicating movement in the corner of one's eye. Here's a Cracked article for further elaboration.

What about the 'full-body apparitions' that some people see? I wouldn't call seeing an entire person who wasn't actually there a minor hallucination. Things happen and sometimes they can't be explained. Now the spots that people think are ghosts are usually dust or some kind of hallucination and maybe full blown bodies are as well, but little kids saying names that they've never heard before has no bit of survival instinct behind it.

I'd certainly like to see more research into the matter, but unfortunately, right now the only people concerned (as in devoting time and resources for research) with it are weirdos who get their own TV show for using odd filters on their cameras and shooting footage of "was that something? Who knows? Let's look at a blurry rewind!", or the type who you suspect own a few tin foil hats. Damn you, LHC. We don't need to know about the origin of the universe, or what exactly is in an atom, or what happens when you smash stuff together, we need to learn why sometimes some people hear bumps in the night!