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What Nosegoblin said!!

They could actually get away with way way way more details on the minis if they broke it down into more and more parts, but you know, the trade off in plastic kits is ease of construction vs. detail. You guys wouldnt be complaining about the details if they did tat, instead you would be complaining that its 100+ pieces per individual soldier...

NoseGoblin wrote:I salute them and back them 100% for keeping their manufacturing here in the USA.

Me too! Why should those chinese kids get to have all the fun?

chaos0xomega wrote:What Nosegoblin said!!

They could actually get away with way way way more details on the minis if they broke it down into more and more parts, but you know, the trade off in plastic kits is ease of construction vs. detail. You guys wouldnt be complaining about the details if they did tat, instead you would be complaining that its 100+ pieces per individual soldier...

What a load of rot. You don't need more pieces per soldier to have a consistent aesthetic. None of the problem areas are in places where a lack of undercuts would prevent them being fixed.

A close up shot showing the "lack" of detail in the PZG's legs:

Yup. I'll take 'em.

Okay, I admit. It was the angle and lighting in the photograph. Details on the leg look excellent and you have convinced me.

Is there an equally good close-up of the head?

Oh gawd! Look at that thing! It's like someone broke open a German pinata and blobs came raining out to dissapoint the kids!

Am I one of the few people who really don't see what the problem is? I think the models look great as is and will look even better when finished. What am I missing here?

I would like to state for the record, I am being sarcastic. I wish their was a sarcastic indicator, like italics is emphasis and bold is stress, quotation marks are direct quotes, I'd like ^I bet you caught a fish that big^ or /I'm sure the stripper was coming on to you/ As a society, we need to work this out.

Like Absolutionis, I concede that the apparent lack of definitiion at the top of the kneepads looks to have just been a problem of lighting.

fullheadofhair wrote:Am I one of the few people who really don't see what the problem is? I think the models look great as is and will look even better when finished. What am I missing here?

The problem is that instead of one consistent style of armour like the concept art, it's got a hodgepodge of different looks. I want the shins, the thighs, the arms and the torso to all have the same sort of armour: armour plates secured by straps over fatigues. Instead we've got plates with holes in them on the shins, "cod-piece-plus-thigh-highs-over-fishnets" for the thighs, plates with edging on them on the hips, apparently one piece vambraces encircling the entire lower arm, and so on.

This is almost like the OT forums in here.

fullheadofhair wrote:Am I one of the few people who really don't see what the problem is? I think the models look great as is and will look even better when finished. What am I missing here?

It doesn't look exactly like the concept art and the details are a little soft. That new shot of the shins is rather nice though. People also want GW quality, which is frankly really hard to get.

I don't want GW quality, nor do I belive anyone said anything like that.

What i do want, is a model/models that is/are consistent with the concept art. Alexholder illustrated my wants nicely.

I feel like it's still an expectation some people have, and while it might not be explicitly stated it still colors our views of any plastic models, since that's what we've got to compare to. Could've worded it better, my bad

If the game would allow human versus human type games, im definetely buying these.

The game does apparently. The powers of earth wage war in space across the colonies (as opposed to at home) for control of resources and stuff i think. Plus there are random alien bugs popping up, that probably complicate things.

I like the German better than the marines. Wish they would have made these first! I think they are gonna sell better. His gun is very cool and I wonder if it's molded as part of the arm or separate? Can't wait to see more grenadier troopers!

AlexHolker wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:What Nosegoblin said!!

They could actually get away with way way way more details on the minis if they broke it down into more and more parts, but you know, the trade off in plastic kits is ease of construction vs. detail. You guys wouldnt be complaining about the details if they did tat, instead you would be complaining that its 100+ pieces per individual soldier...

What a load of rot. You don't need more pieces per soldier to have a consistent aesthetic. None of the problem areas are in places where a lack of undercuts would prevent them being fixed.

AlexHolker, if would enlighten us to how you know so much about how their plastic injection moulds work, that would be great.

The gun is actually two-piece: the grip and stock is molded onto the hand while the front section is modular. There will not, unfortunately, be any loose rifles on the sprue, but that's because the sprues are small and goal is to pack as much stuff as possible on them (same as the Marines). However, this could, and should, be an option for the heavy weapon sets.

The armor around the thighs is actually being altered: they're going to go back to the straps in lieu of the mesh (this is straight from Tony, actually), plus the helmet is gong to get worked on, including beefing up the gorget. They'll also be adding separate pieces of armor to bulk up the shoulders. This is all in addition to the separate backpack and pouches: combined, these guys are going to look like hulking, intimidating human-size brutes!

Defiance actually does listen, believe it or not. I know because I bitch at them constantly about this and that and everything (I'm the contrary playtester ). It is important to remember that these are WIP renders being shown specifically to elicit feedback.


The setting is, by default, human-vs-human. It is meant to invoke the latter-day Age of Imperialism -- the Victorian, pre-WW1 era, where the great powers warred for colonial riches. This doesn't mean there are going to be kings and queens or fancy liveried armies, of course, just the general feel; the aesthetics will be gritty, hard sci-fi. Most of the conflicts will be Great Power vs Great Power (where the Great Powers are, among others, the US, Germany, France, China, and the British Commonwealth). Aliens will appear as mercenaries, native insurgents, and dangerous threats (in the case of the Bugs), none of whom have native technology even close to the Great Powers (though arms manufacturers will happily sell them high tech guns and ammo). However, this will not remain the status quo.

I really like that they're listening to what people have to say about their sculpts ahead of time. It would be nicer if that was a little more transparent and they said that from the start, but if they're getting feedback on their models and taking it to heart it's a good sign.

lord marcus wrote:

What i do want, is a model/models that is/are consistent with the concept art. Alexholder illustrated my wants nicely.

This was what I was getting at a bit. I didnt say the model was bad, just that I did not see too much similarities with the concept art.

kenshin620 wrote:

lord marcus wrote:

What i do want, is a model/models that is/are consistent with the concept art. Alexholder illustrated my wants nicely.

This was what I was getting at a bit. I didnt say the model was bad, just that I did not see too much similarities with the concept art.

Indeed. Now that the others have exactly what we both we're trying to say, they can reply

The original concept art:



The multi-angle reference:



German Render 1:


German Render 2:


German Weapons


German Male and Female Head Options

Well, who wants that giant codpiece in the concept art? lol
You could not walk in that without great pain!

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the choice not to have a codpiece go almost down to the guy's knees.

I posted the string of images above for some context, to show the comparison between the originals and the WIP. I'm not quite seeing why there's so much complaining as to the current state of the WIP matches the concept quite well, save in a few details and in the Heroic proportions of the mini. With tweaks the finished product should look very close to the concept, if not an exact match.

dsteingass wrote:Well, who wants that giant codpiece in the concept art? lol
You could not walk in that without great pain!

My Codpiece is the coolest!

Anyways, I'm waiting on the chinese concept art before I decide. I'm hoping that the models and their rules reflect that they're a serious power with and not just low tech military who uses human wave tactics Oh..and if the rules are gak or not. I

I am still happy with these. I look forward to them coming out with backpacks for BOTH models on the sprue. Not just one pack for two guys. They will always be fighting each other if there is only one pack for all their gear. Thats just bad form people. The marines must be under funded I guess.

Blackhoof wrote:The game does apparently. The powers of earth wage war in space across the colonies (as opposed to at home) for control of resources and stuff i think. Plus there are random alien bugs popping up, that probably complicate things.

Then they have a happy customer.

winnertakesall wrote:AlexHolker, if would enlighten us to how you know so much about how their plastic injection moulds work, that would be great.

They're bog-standard two-part steel injection moulds. Now, some of the problem areas are due to a combination of mould limitations and Tim's laziness and complete lack of design sense – the omission of the armour collar and subsequent lowering of the helmet rear, for example, or the substitution of the groin armour with an armoured diaper (I'd much rather see it as an overhang attaching to the chest with a straight join so it can be cut off and repositioned to clear the leg when the torso is turned) – but most are in areas with detail, just the wrong detail – such as the mysterious shrinking thigh-plate that is rightly the subject of so much scorn.

Brother SRM wrote:I really like that they're listening to what people have to say about their sculpts ahead of time. It would be nicer if that was a little more transparent and they said that from the start, but if they're getting feedback on their models and taking it to heart it's a good sign.

I doubt it was intentional – they appear to have simply 'finished' the sculpts a few weeks before a tooling slot became available and decided to post previews now before metaphorically putting them in a drawer and forgetting about them – but hopefully, for us and them both, they'll learn from this and stop blaming all their previous woes on the Chinese. Hell, they currently don't even have pictures of the Marine sprues in their online store. (On a semi-related note, I only just got why people were referring to them as Colonial Marines. Yes, I'm that slow. =P The gonzo armour makes a lot more sense now.)

dsteingass wrote:Well, who wants that giant codpiece in the concept art? lol!

Huh? The groin armour is just as large in the sculpt and bulkier to boot.

Xeno wrote:I posted the string of images above for some context, to show the comparison between the originals and the WIP. I'm not quite seeing why there's so much complaining as to the current state of the WIP matches the concept quite well, save in a few details and in the Heroic proportions of the mini. With tweaks the finished product should look very close to the concept, if not an exact match.

Yes and no. Although there is certainly a correspondence between features on the concept and features on the sculpt, the overall effect is of a mish-mash of conflicting scales and styles. The legs emphasise the curves and the little shin dimples, making them look like anime riot gear, particularly with the shrinkage of the thigh armour away from the front of the thigh. The tassets are no longer integrated with the rest of the armour and instead just hang there, making them look medieval or like Space Marine Terminator armour. I don't know *what* is going on with the groin. Can't see the torso but the poor fit at elbow and neck makes it look like an Action-Man figure. The vambraces are flatter than the legs and look high-tech and reminiscent of Halo's Spartan armour. With the lowered helmet rear, the googly-eyes and the mouthpiece now sticking straight out, the head looks like a cheapest-of-the-cheap Darth Vader-knockoff rubber Halloween mask sucking a dummy. Edit: Oh, and the G36-derived rifle bewilderingly has an M204 slapped on it. Complete dog's breakfast.

ShatteredBlade wrote:Anyways, I'm waiting on the chinese concept art before I decide. I'm hoping that the models and their rules reflect that they're a serious power with and not just low tech military who uses human wave tactics Oh..and if the rules are gak or not. I

IIRC the Chinese and their client states will be mostly low-tech with a smattering of high-tech units. Probably not human-wave though as that should be the bugs' role.