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For the record:

The base Panzergrenadier set will not include female-specific bodies, but that's only because the PZGs are so heavily armored you can't really tell who's what under the armor. I'm thinking, though, that judicious use of a file, hobby knife, and green stuff can easily resize the bodies.

As far as I know, by the way, the mold-making is complete on the Marines, and Germans and bugs are in tooling so are on schedule for release. Haven't seen a shot of the Marine sprue yet, but I do have a complete list of the contents:

Two torsos
Three legs
Six heads -- two open helmet, two face mask, one in cap, on bare
Three small hip packs
Three large hip packs
One backpack
Four left arms
Five right arms (weapons_
-1 SAW
-1 Rifle w/ underslung grenade launcher
-1 carbine
-2 standard rifles

The backpack, as I understand it, has a small antenna on it making it useful both as a general pack and for those who want a dedicated radioman.

For the Germans, they're going to be experimenting with two-part rifles -- since the basic German rifle is modular, the piece is divided into the front (standard, underslung grenade launcher, SAW) and the rear grip and stock., letting you attach whichever piece you wish. Also, the rifle has a sight molded onto it. You can see pictures of the weapon over at the Defiance Games sight.

When will they be released? Can I pre-order from you please? PM me if so! THanks man, I can't wait to get ahold of some.

As of this moment, the bugs and Germans aren't up for pre-order yet, although the marines are, and will be released on 16th January, hopefully earlier. The Germans and Bugs are currently in tooling, so shouldn't be too much longer, I won't give an estimate because I will only get it wrong!

http://defiancegames.com/index.php/shop#ecwid:category=1831024&mode=category&offset=0&sort=normal

There is the link to preorder them from DG, and I believe the Warstore is stocking them aswell.

Thanks man, much appreciated. I will anxiously await the German release.

I am looking forward to those Germans! And if they get hardsuits as well I will be giddy like a school girl. Cannot wait to see more WIP shots of them. Get to it already and post some.

First shot of the Germans is up over at the DG website.

Imperial Guard here I come.... though I have to say, looking at it more makes me wonder about the heads... it doesn't look like the same type of helmet and some of the detail looks really soft...

They look pretty sharp. Especially the helmets and weapons.

Yeah, the knee guards and the fingers on the left hand are poorly defined.

The other problem I have with it is that Tim's changed the concept art for the worse again. The straps on the thighs holding the plates in place were far more interesting than a patch of raised bumps, and the front of the groin plate needs to be way more subdued.

They have NOT changed for the better imho.

Very far away from the concept art and what i was expecting. 50+ of these are now off of my to order list, unless they change back to be more in line with the concept art, which had the plates around the thigh/groin area more sleek.

If you showed me this render, I would not have linked it at all with the concept art. Sigh.

I dont get the connection between that and this, besides the gun

paint

Yeah, let's all run around with our hair on fire over an obvious test piece. They're not in production yet so please take a breath and relax until we see an actual production version.

agnosto wrote:Yeah, let's all run around with our hair on fire over an obvious test piece. They're not in production yet so please take a breath and relax until we see an actual production version.

Thats what I'm trying to say. They should show more physical product or masters of product. The 3D renders that some manufacturers are using will not generate the appeal or true look of a physical model, and are impractical in attempting to do that.

lord marcus wrote:

agnosto wrote:Yeah, let's all run around with our hair on fire over an obvious test piece. They're not in production yet so please take a breath and relax until we see an actual production version.

Thats what I'm trying to say. They should show more physical product or masters of product. The 3D renders that some manufacturers are using will not generate the appeal or true look of a physical model, and are impractical in attempting to do that.

That shot is obviously of a 3d printed product, look at the lack of detail in the fingers and overall lack of sharpness. It's fine if you take it for what it is, an early proto-type and not the finished product. Think of it in videogame terms, it's an alpha release. We'll see but I quite like the marines and wouldn't expect the germans to be any less detailed so all the "well, I won't buy it now" comments are a bit premature.

Yes, honestly, you guys sort of sound like the comic book geek from the Simpsons "worst sculpt evar"

Especially considering the sculpt isn't too bad. It's not as good as the concept art, but I think it looks completely serviceable. The Marines looked a little better since the initial renders too, so I'd hold out a little bit here.

I the Defiance staff about this and, yes, that's a WIP of the sculpt; they are currently fiddling with some of the trickier details (like the gorget, which is hard to do with plastic manufacturing -- you can't do the undercuts it'd need when tooling a sprue); there is apparently some discussion about making the gorget a separate piece. Other little bits, like the thigh straps, were left off as being too fiddly, though they may get put back on; it's a question of what level of detail the mold maker is capable of. The LOD should be quite high -- Tony Reidy mentioned they've been upgrading their equipment to handle it.

The assorted pouches and the backpack are separate pieces, though I'll see if I can get them to post a render in a different pose and angle; apparently, the program Tim uses has a built-in "camera" complete with light-sourcing that can obscure some of the detail.

They're following their WGF roots and continuing to be incapable of sharp details. It's as if the entire miniature had well-defined details... and then was sent through a tumbler. The left arm, the right knee, the pants' texture, and the face are especially flattened in details.

The joint between the right arm and the shoulder is horrible. The arm is clearly a rounded surface whereas the the body is a flat surface. The whole joint looks less like the arm is coming out of the body and more like the arm is superfluously attached to the body.

The head lenses stick out further than, or just as far as the helmet.

Wow.

You guys act like you've never seen a WIP sculpt before. Look how Defiance went back and retooled the bug concept based on feedback.

I was originally underwhelmed by the Marines when they first showed some of the rough stuff, but they've really tightened up their designs, and come out with some stuff I want to buy. 10 years ago we were mucking around with 1-piece metal Guardsmen that were close on 30 bucks for 10. GW didn't/doesn't really release rough cuts like this, and take feedback. And as the C:AW rules aren't out yet, and with the simple fact that everyone (myself included) likes a good, inexpensive proxy for whatever they're running, if they can get it, I'd hazard a guess that the naysayers are mostly Guard players (like me) who think their stand-ins and "OMG, dude, plastic Storm Troopers!" are going down the tubes faster than fast things go down tubes.

IMHO, Defiance has worked a LOT on getting things right, and making something that will hit a lot of tabletops, whether its for their gaming system or any other.

For those that remember Full Thrust from GZG, they came in, said "here's some models, use 'em if you like, if not, make your own, use Star Trek Micro Machines, old toys, whatever, because we have this simple rule set that costs less than dinner for 2 at Arby's, and it lets you use ANYTHING you want to play it, in fact, we ENCOURAGE it."

That was really novel, especially for the time. I feel the same way about what Defiance is doing. They're saying, "Hey, we made some cool stuff. Pick it up and throw it into whatever you're running. Oh, BTW. We're doing this rules set too. If you like it, sweet. If not, hey, at least you got the models."

Using US-based tooling is a great step forward. There's much more accountability. If they know the product won't move because the knuckle joints on the thumb is blobby, or that the groin guard is... not as tantalizing as it should be, they have much more control to address the issue.

Be patient guys. I think this is one iron in the fire that may take a bit, but will be worth it in the end.

Xeno wrote:I the Defiance staff about this and, yes, that's a WIP of the sculpt; they are currently fiddling with some of the trickier details (like the gorget, which is hard to do with plastic manufacturing -- you can't do the undercuts it'd need when tooling a sprue); there is apparently some discussion about making the gorget a separate piece. Other little bits, like the thigh straps, were left off as being too fiddly, though they may get put back on; it's a question of what level of detail the mold maker is capable of. The LOD should be quite high -- Tony Reidy mentioned they've been upgrading their equipment to handle it.

The assorted pouches and the backpack are separate pieces, though I'll see if I can get them to post a render in a different pose and angle; apparently, the program Tim uses has a built-in "camera" complete with light-sourcing that can obscure some of the detail.

If you could deliver one piece of feedback to Tony, I would say: Work on the head, it does not look true to the concept art at all and needs the most work IMO. Also, I dont know what mold manufacturing process is being used, but if I was to suggest one I would say go for the tried and true three up method rather than direct to CAM, it allows for the most detail to be captured from a large physical model and transferred to a production mold (as I understand it).

I'm going to be buying quite a bit of all 3 ranges, I think they're great and will let me play that starship troopers scenario I've always dreamed about The marines and the german prototype already make plastic cadians look bland by comparison.

Absolutionis wrote:They're following their WGF roots and continuing to be incapable of sharp details. It's as if the entire miniature had well-defined details... and then was sent through a tumbler. The left arm, the right knee, the pants' texture, and the face are especially flattened in details.

I could not agree more. Another failure by an upstart company.

kustom wrote:You guys act like you've never seen a WIP sculpt before.

Oh, boo hoo. We're calling a spade a spade. If the finished product is better, good, but there's no point in automatically assuming it will. Who knows, maybe if we say nothing, they'll think this kind of a thing is good enough for today's market, which it obviously isn't. Improvement emerges the best out of necessity, not a bunch of coddling sycophants excusing every single flaw.

It's light years ahead of the other GW-knockoff plastic company, though.

It's the best of a bad lot, yes.

Your modeling world, must be a cold, dark place.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Absolutionis wrote:They're following their WGF roots and continuing to be incapable of sharp details. It's as if the entire miniature had well-defined details... and then was sent through a tumbler. The left arm, the right knee, the pants' texture, and the face are especially flattened in details.

I could not agree more. Another failure by an upstart company.

You haven't even seen the models yet! A WIP is in order to show that it is, surprisingly a work in progress, and isn't done

kustom wrote:You guys act like you've never seen a WIP sculpt before.

Oh, boo hoo. We're calling a spade a spade. If the finished product is better, good, but there's no point in automatically assuming it will. Who knows, maybe if we say nothing, they'll think this kind of a thing is good enough for today's market, which it obviously isn't. Improvement emerges the best out of necessity, not a bunch of coddling sycophants excusing every single flaw.

A person who acts obsequiously toward someone in order to gain advantage; a servile flatterer.

I think you may be using words now without knowing what they actually mean. He isn't 'excusing every flaw', the whole point of showing s WIP is so that these flaws come to light, so they can be altered. The nature of injection plastic moulding is that undercuts and every have to be taken into account.

winnertakesall wrote:
I think you may be using words now without knowing what they actually mean. He isn't 'excusing every flaw', the whole point of showing s WIP is so that these flaws come to light, so they can be altered. The nature of injection plastic moulding is that undercuts and every have to be taken into account.

^^ THIS ^^

Not only undercuts but draft angles from the mold pull direction. Making a CAD model is simple enough, but when you move into the realm of plastic injection molding there are MANY issues that crop up.

Their designer is obviously using Zbrush and trying to model on a Z axis in order to deal with the undercuts and mold draft issues. You can get away with sharper details and undercuts when making a multi-part spring loaded mold but the cost of such mold design becomes VERY prohibitive.

I salute them and back them 100% for keeping their manufacturing here in the USA.