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It seems to me, that the fluff made the C'tan even stronger.

I mean, it says they were blowing up suns, and creating black holes on their own. They are still the most powerful beings to Manifest in the Physical realm of the galaxy, thus far.

New Fluff is good. I'm glad I can add a lot of personality to my Army.

The fluff makes them stronger, but I can't see the Nightbringer getting sharded without a few dead solar systems. The Deciever could very well have planned it in the hopes of acting in many places at once.

Durza wrote:The fluff makes them stronger, but I can't see the Nightbringer getting sharded without a few dead solar systems. The Deciever could very well have planned it in the hopes of acting in many places at once.

Wow, that's a really fantasic Idea! I like your thinking there!

Yeah, it said that the Necrons were reduced from Trillions, to billions. So I could see a few Solar Systems getting knocked out.

You could have fielded weakened C'tan without destroying everything they were and turning them into slaves in an utterly nonsensical fashion.

And this new WD battle report about the Necrons helping the Ultramarines out of their sense of honor would have shocked me just a month ago, but here we are....

Sasori wrote:It seems to me, that the fluff made the C'tan even stronger.

I mean, it says they were blowing up suns, and creating black holes on their own. They are still the most powerful beings to Manifest in the Physical realm of the galaxy, thus far.

New Fluff is good. I'm glad I can add a lot of personality to my Army.

Only gained some glimpses of the fluff in a first read.
IMO it lost some existant story arcs.



OtoH it has some ties to the inquisition codex, the book of the knights who are grey and its inhabitants.




And the usual 'kick the TAu ' event:



The change which i dislike most is the presentation of the Necrons stellar travel capabilities:



Excuse me?
Weren't their fleets one of the best?



There was a lot of monarchy in spase added. Why has it to be this way everywhere? Couldn't one come up with something different?
But there is also the treatment of the image of the Necrons as it were:




I miss the silence we had. The chilling , unnerving silence.

Don't want my undead in spase turned into Data.

May I field that settra model as Pharaoh....sorry... Phaeron ?
Because. It has to be done. When a company lacks the creativity to use the rich history and myths of the dirtball we call home and goes for the same plundered theme of egypt in spase , you either give up or dive in.

Good fluff needs more than a few ties to other 5th ed fluff.The new Codex Necrons is at best 'acceptable' .

1hadhq wrote:
Excuse me?
Weren't their fleets one of the best?

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now they don't have ships that can blink from one side of the galaxy to another anymore?
The gak Matt Ward, the gak!!!

Whine whine whine.

Get over it. Necron fluff sucked before now. They're no longer the quite literal deus ex machina that they were previously.

Kanluwen wrote:Whine whine whine.

Wasting precious space of dakka with nothing to contribute?

Kanluwen wrote:Whine whine whine.

Get over it. Necron fluff sucked before now. They're no longer the quite literal deus ex machina that they were previously.

So nobody who actually enjoyed the old Necron fluff should be allowed to voice their displeasure, yet everybody who enjoys it can sing their praises to the heavens if they want?

lolwut?

Not to mention, this fluff IS garbage, for example, now they are capable of completely destroying the Imperium of Man in an instant if they wanted to.

The lack of mention of Void Dragon/Outsider is not a surprise at all. The C'tan are gone, enslaved weapons with no fluff relevance. Dragon/Outsider are too threatening to the Galaxy, the Necrons are petty empires which war with one another now.

1hadhq wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Whine whine whine.

Wasting precious space of dakka with nothing to contribute?

FinalAnswer wrote:So nobody who actually enjoyed the old Necron fluff should be allowed to voice their displeasure, yet everybody who enjoys it can sing their praises to the heavens if they want?

lolwut?

First off, I didn't say that people who enjoyed it previously can't voice their displeasure.

The brutal truth is that people are simply whining that it's no longer the old fluff, which mostly was disregarded seemingly due to the fact that people thought that Necrons were an entire race of robots.

While it sucks for those who liked the old fluff--it also sucks for those of us who are going to be reading these threads which consist of no actual, substantive critiques beyond individuals like Iracundus and instead we get Brother Coa styled posts.

Not to mention, this fluff IS garbage, for example, now they are capable of completely destroying the Imperium of Man in an instant if they wanted to.

The fun fact is that they very likely could have done it previously.

Harriticus wrote:The lack of mention of Void Dragon/Outsider is not a surprise at all. The C'tan are gone, enslaved weapons with no fluff relevance.

You mean outside of being the shattered remnants of godlike beings who elevated the Necrontyr from a fourth rate, mustache twirling Star Trek-esque bad guy dressed up in silly costumes to a race which was able to cause the toppling of the Old Ones?
Yeah. Totally no fluff relevance.

Dragon/Outsider are too threatening to the Galaxy, the Necrons are petty empires which war with one another now.

The Dragon was a joke anyways. All he's really accomplished is a dogmatic schism within the Adeptus Mechanicus.
The Outsider has always just been speculated as being the Hive Mind, but never really confirmed beyond a wink and a nod.

The Necrons at war is fine. Previously, Necrons were the only race which had very few hooks for having wars between each other outside of "The C'Tan did it".
That's not a good thing.

Kanluwen wrote:"How can we make 'Not Warp Gods'?"
"I know, let's say they're beings made of pure energy which devour suns!"
"BRILLIANT!"
"Guys--shouldn't we describe it a bit more than that...? Or at least tone them down?"
"Go sit in the corner, we're geniusing!"

I was being serious when I asked you that. It's a shame you can't be equally serious in response to my question.

They were alien entities formed by the energies of creation at the start of the universe, and then had their essence compressed into necrodermis shells. They feed on energy, be it the matter and energy emanating from life, or the energies of a sun (Which they fed on because nothing smaller could even catch their attention). This is all explained pretty well. Try harder.

Except what you described from Dawn of War was stupid too. C'Tan are not Daemons, they cannot interact with the physical world without a physical body or manifesting one themselves. That makes possessing an organic or even an inorganic thing impossible.

Within the new description, it makes sense at least. The Necrodermis shells that the C'Tan originally possessed were destroyed. The Necrontyr then built smaller ones which could only contain so much of the C'Tan's essences.

Think of it like this. Say you have a big pitcher of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being. That big pitcher full of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being then decides to start devouring your city.

You think "Well, if its power comes from it being all together...why not separate it?".
Et voila. You no longer have a pitcher full of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being--but rather multiple small cups which can still do miraculous things but can't do the things it used to because of its power being diffused.

You are aware that what happened in Dawn of War and what you just described/what is in the new codex are basically the same thing right?

They could project a small portion of their consciousness, their power, into a smaller, less "capable" shell and their servants make use of them to wage war, rather than use the entire essence of a C'tan. That's not so different is it? And it was done without the Deceiver suddenly becoming a moron by handing the Silent King the controls to the Necron legions (Yes I am reading the codex right now).

Kanluwen wrote:Whine whine whine.

Get over it. Necron fluff sucked before now. They're no longer the quite literal deus ex machina that they were previously.

It's difficult to take you seriously when you spew your own opinion as a fact while discounting others without contributing anything.

Also, deus ex machina? Now they could, with the press of a button, annihilate Terra on a whim. Lol.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:"How can we make 'Not Warp Gods'?"
"I know, let's say they're beings made of pure energy which devour suns!"
"BRILLIANT!"
"Guys--shouldn't we describe it a bit more than that...? Or at least tone them down?"
"Go sit in the corner, we're geniusing!"

I was being serious when I asked you that. It's a shame you can't be equally serious in response to my question.

They were alien entities formed by the energies of creation at the start of the universe, and then had their essence compressed into necrodermis shells. They feed on energy, be it the matter and energy emanating from life, or the energies of a sun (Which they fed on because nothing smaller could even catch their attention). This is all explained pretty well. Try harder.

I'm aware of what they are.

What you're also not mentioning is that they were "formed by the energies of creation at the start of the universe" and somehow were the antithesis of the Old Ones who were creating and seeding said universe.

They also weren't "compressed". They were trapped by the Necrontyr.
It's also bizarre that for some reason they went from "feeding upon stars" to "feeding upon organic lifeforms".

Except what you described from Dawn of War was stupid too. C'Tan are not Daemons, they cannot interact with the physical world without a physical body or manifesting one themselves. That makes possessing an organic or even an inorganic thing impossible.

Within the new description, it makes sense at least. The Necrodermis shells that the C'Tan originally possessed were destroyed. The Necrontyr then built smaller ones which could only contain so much of the C'Tan's essences.

Think of it like this. Say you have a big pitcher of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being. That big pitcher full of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being then decides to start devouring your city.

You think "Well, if its power comes from it being all together...why not separate it?".
Et voila. You no longer have a pitcher full of Evil, Suneating Godlike Being--but rather multiple small cups which can still do miraculous things but can't do the things it used to because of its power being diffused.

You are aware that what happened in Dawn of War and what you just described/what is in the new codex are basically the same thing right?

They could project a small portion of their consciousness, their power, into a smaller, less "capable" shell and their servants make use of them to wage war, rather than use the entire essence of a C'tan. That's not so different is it? And it was done without the Deceiver suddenly becoming a moron by handing the Silent King the controls to the Necron legions (Yes I am reading the codex right now).

There's a very, very big difference actually.

The one that happened in Dawn of War was a C'Tan "possessing" a Necron Lord.
The description for now about the C'Tan "Shards" is more akin to the Eldar Avatar or a Wraithlord--an inanimate, inorganic structure which is built specifically to contain the essence of a certain being.
In the C'Tan case, does it say whether it's permanent or not?

Kanluwen wrote:Whine whine whine.

Get over it. Necron fluff sucked before now. They're no longer the quite literal deus ex machina that they were previously.

It's difficult to take you seriously when you spew your own opinion as a fact while discounting others without contributing anything.

It's also difficult to take people seriously when they continually try to use the fact that X author wrote X Codex as an example of why it's "bad fluff".

This isn't a novel. There is not one person writing it.

Also, deus ex machina? Now they could, with the press of a button, annihilate Terra on a whim. Lol.

You mean like they couldn't before, what with them landing a ship on Mars?

New slow ships. Well it seems that the necrons have lost a lot of there teeth. It's not really a bad thing. Though I guess it opens the door for all kinds of arguments now that necrons don't seem to have there necrons win button anymore.

The codex mentions Ka'mais? I wonder how that story would change under the new fluff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g&list=FLCklzMUO72gX11xlRFe4O7Q&index=4&feature=plpp_video

Please people, everytime a codex comes out you whine like babies. OMG THEY NERFED THE NECRONS!
Before they were slumbering and raiding. Now they have empires and vast armies. The army had no personality before.
BUT THE 4 C´tan of witch only two had barly fluff got personality.
WRONG. They were just Khorne and Tzeentch fooling around.

So did they go all the way and have the Necrons as a force of Order versus Chaos?

Surprised they changed so much actually, even after the GK codex.

Kanluwen wrote:I'm aware of what they are.

What you're also not mentioning is that they were "formed by the energies of creation at the start of the universe" and somehow were the antithesis of the Old Ones who were creating and seeding said universe.

Er, what?

I'm not sure what you are really saying. You seem to be under the impression that the Old Ones were creating the universe...? The C'tan predate the Old Ones by millenia, the Old Ones were merely one of if not the first space-faring race in the galaxy. They dabbled extensively in genetic engineering that allowed them to control the paths evolution could take and effectively create life. I'm not really sure what your complaint is here.

They also weren't "compressed". They were trapped by the Necrontyr.

Compressed is the exact term used, in the old codex. The new codex also sees them clad in necrodermis, far before they were enslaved. Once more, not sure what you are saying.

It's also bizarre that for some reason they went from "feeding upon stars" to "feeding upon organic lifeforms".

Stars provided more energy, yes, but the organic lifeforms were more flavourful, finding sustenance in the myriad emotions they could taste as they fed.

There's a very, very big difference actually.

The one that happened in Dawn of War was a C'Tan "possessing" a Necron Lord.

Right. Aka a smaller shell of necrodermis.

The description for now about the C'Tan "Shards" is more akin to the Eldar Avatar or a Wraithlord--an inanimate, inorganic structure which is built specifically to contain the essence of a certain being.

If you take issue with the Lord being the shell provided, they could easily make smaller shells to house a measure of the power of them, to use in the field.

In the C'Tan case, does it say whether it's permanent or not?

I'm not sure what you mean, can you elaborate?

It's also difficult to take people seriously when they continually try to use the fact that X author wrote X Codex as an example of why it's "bad fluff".

This isn't a novel. There is not one person writing it.

Fair enough, I posted before I saw your post indicating you were referring to Coa. I'd agree with you then. Sorry about that.

You mean like they couldn't before, what with them landing a ship on Mars?

A ship that got promptly blown to bits.

Now there is potential for the Necrons (One Tomb World, to be exact) to literally destroy Terra with the push of a button. Inside the Tomb World is a diorama for every star in the galaxy. Putting one of the little starlights out makes the actual star supernova.

Void__Dragon wrote:Now there is potential for the Necrons (One Tomb World, to be exact) to literally destroy Terra with the push of a button. Inside the Tomb World is a diorama for every star in the galaxy. Putting one of the little starlights out makes the actual star supernova.

Doesn't it speed up the process rather than instantly blowing up the star so it happens in a mere few thousand years - sure I read that in WD - not got to GW yet to get my Codex :(

Space Crusader wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL8e2ujXe8g&list=FLCklzMUO72gX11xlRFe4O7Q&index=4&feature=plpp_video

Please people, everytime a codex comes out you whine like babies. OMG THEY NERFED THE NECRONS!
Before they were slumbering and raiding. Now they have empires and vast armies. The army had no personality before.
BUT THE 4 C´tan of witch only two had barly fluff got personality.
WRONG. They were just Khorne and Tzeentch fooling around.

The codex didn't emphasize the uniqueness among differing Lords like it should of, but that doesn't justify a purge of what came before.

The Nightbringer isn't anything like Khorne. Khorne desires killing, Nightbringer advocates suffering, which Khorne heavily frowns upon, since it prolongs what could be a good kill.

The Deceiver is as similar to Tzeentch as Cegorach is. Which is to say superficially.

Mr Morden wrote:

Void__Dragon wrote:Now there is potential for the Necrons (One Tomb World, to be exact) to literally destroy Terra with the push of a button. Inside the Tomb World is a diorama for every star in the galaxy. Putting one of the little starlights out makes the actual star supernova.

Doesn't it speed up the process rather than instantly blowing up the star so it happens in a mere few thousand years - sure I read that in WD - not got to GW yet to get my Codex :(

Given that almost everything in the 40K universe seems to operate on a millennial scale, that would actually be a pretty big threat, and also more or less guarantees that the Imperium is doomed to be destroyed-- but that seems to be what all the fans want, so what do I know?

Mr Morden wrote:Doesn't it speed up the process rather than instantly blowing up the star so it happens in a mere few thousand years - sure I read that in WD - not got to GW yet to get my Codex :(

One could interpret it like that.

The Celestial Orrery is stated simply to make a star go supernova millenia before it would naturally, bringing "fiery oblivion to all nearby worlds."

I personally read it to believe that it destroys it instantly, since it goes on to speak of the consequences and how only further manipulation of the Celestial Orrery can re-align the cosmos, admittedly over a time period of thousands of years of micromanagement. I'm not exactly sure what this thing is supposed to be use for, upon further reading.

At the very least, it admits that the Necrons who tend it do so with restraint. But others are not so respectful of that restraint, and are attempting to usurp the Necrons there to use it as a weapon. Specifically the Oruscar Dynasty (Words can't express how much I hate that term).

Hi, new to the forum, lurked the place for a good few months now. Just thought I'd register to query something I just spotted in the thread that I'd never heard before.

Kanluwen wrote:The Outsider has always just been speculated as being the Hive Mind, but never really confirmed beyond a wink and a nod.

Where has this ever been mentioned? I'm not sure what exactly The Outsider's motive would be for this but I'd be interested in hearing what other people have speculated and where any evidence has been hinted at since I've never heard that theory before.

Kanluwen wrote:

The brutal truth is that people are simply whining that it's no longer the old fluff, which mostly was disregarded seemingly due to the fact that people thought that Necrons were an entire race of robots.

While it sucks for those who liked the old fluff--it also sucks for those of us who are going to be reading these threads which consist of no actual, substantive critiques beyond individuals like Iracundus and instead we get Brother Coa styled posts.


The Dragon was a joke anyways. All he's really accomplished is a dogmatic schism within the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Poor Kan. Someone holds a gun to his head so he has to read "these" threads.

Could you imagine its possible to use actual substance of the actual codex to reply in such thread?
The non lethal truth is, Necrons never were robots.
Dropping the story arc from codices and the HH series makes no sense at all.

To be fair, the original Necron codex didn't emphasize that Necrons were more than merely automotons as much as it should have, not nearly.

Though I don't think they should of been humanised, as they seem to be now.

Edit: And yeah, losing the Dragon makes me a sad panda.

Void__Dragon wrote:

Mr Morden wrote:Doesn't it speed up the process rather than instantly blowing up the star so it happens in a mere few thousand years - sure I read that in WD - not got to GW yet to get my Codex :(

One could interpret it like that.

The Celestial Orrery is stated simply to make a star go supernova millenia before it would naturally, bringing "fiery oblivion to all nearby worlds."

I personally read it to believe that it destroys it instantly, since it goes on to speak of the consequences and how only further manipulation of the Celestial Orrery can re-align the cosmos, admittedly over a time period of thousands of years of micromanagement. I'm not exactly sure what this thing is supposed to be use for, upon further reading.

At the very least, it admits that the Necrons who tend it do so with restraint. But others are not so respectful of that restraint, and are attempting to usurp the Necrons there to use it as a weapon. Specifically the Oruscar Dynasty (Words can't express how much I hate that term).

From what I have read, the Oruscar Dynasty is seeking to prevent this from happening, and therefore protect the Orrery.

To be fair, "unmentioned" does not necessarily mean "dropped" especially in the Void Dragon's case. He was barely mentioned as it was, excepting Gav Thorpe's Mechanicum book and a few vague references elsewhere.

And 1hadhq: that was exactly the point I was making. There are people complaining that Necrons are "no longer mindless robots". Their entire race never has been--just the Warriors.

We've had Immortals fleshed out now, no longer are they simply the "favored of the C'Tan"--they now are the actual soldiery of the Necrontyr, placed in bodies designed for them to keep going with what they did in life. Flayed Ones, Destroyers, et al have all been fleshed out more.

Things being fleshed out is not necessarily a bad way to go.

Kanluwen wrote:To be fair, "unmentioned" does not necessarily mean "dropped" especially in the Void Dragon's case. He was barely mentioned as it was, excepting Gav Thorpe's Mechanicum book and a few vague references elsewhere.

I would like to believe he'd at least get a mention considering the radical changes to the fluff of the C'tan. Like "Oh but this Dragon dude is whole and still sleeps" or confirmation it's been shattered, whatever.

We've had Immortals fleshed out now, no longer are they simply the "favored of the C'Tan"--they now are the actual soldiery of the Necrontyr, placed in bodies designed for them to keep going with what they did in life. Flayed Ones, Destroyers, et al have all been fleshed out more.

Things being fleshed out is not necessarily a bad way to go.

While I don't condone the mindless tossing about of the word "nihilism" concerning Destroyers, I have no issue with some of the fleshing out of Immortals, Flayed Ones (Although I preferred Fall of Damnos' supposed fluff on it), or Destroyers. For the most part, fleshing them out has been fairly solidly done, IMO.

The "Fall of Damnos" fluff for the Flayed Ones' "disease" is seemingly written with the fluff from the Newcron book in mind.

Heck, there's even what amounts to the fluff about Praetorians creating "cults" devoted to the C'Tan in "Dead Men Walking".

Kanluwen wrote:The Outsider has always just been speculated as being the Hive Mind, but never really confirmed beyond a wink and a nod.

Can you point to this wink and nod? Because all I ever found was Necron players trying to make the Outsider relevant. The theory doesn't work at its most basic level - the Hive Mind is a psychic 'entity' that manifests at least part of itself in the Warp. The C'tan are not only not psychic, but the Warp is, you know, pretty harmful to them.

I've got nothing I can reliably point to, outside of something I'm vaguely recalling from a Games Day Seminar in something like 2005.