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Blood_Raven wrote:6th edition Tyranids will state they just want hugs but their claws end up ripping things to shreds by accident. They love you really.
Kanluwen wrote:The "Fall of Damnos" fluff for the Flayed Ones' "disease" is seemingly written with the fluff from the Newcron book in mind.
Heck, there's even what amounts to the fluff about Praetorians creating "cults" devoted to the C'Tan in "Dead Men Walking".
Admittedly I haven't gotten around to reading the book, so I may of been misinformed, but I was under the impression that it was more that they missed their fleshy bodies supar badly and as such wear the skin of enemies. Now that the underlying goal of all Necrons (Sans Destroyers) seems to be to, you know, get bodies, and the Flayed Ones' disease seems to be being cursed to have the same insane hunger of the C'tan, and being unable to satiate it.
Haven't read Dead Men Walking either. I can't even find it on scribd, like I did Fall of Damnos, for some annoying reason.
Also, I never bought into the "theory" that the Outsider was the Hive Mind, it makes no sense, for all the reasons Loki said and more.
If you don't buy into the theory that the Outsider was the Hive Mind, you don't buy into the C'Tan and Necrontyr creating the Pariah Gene in humanity.
Just sayin'. Pariahs are/were psychically charged beings, even if they do damage the Warp entities near them.
And quite frankly..."Dead Men Walking" was kind of a surprise good read for me. The author is one I'm not usually a fan of, but he did a good job emphasizing the fact that the humans were actually more terrified of the Death Korps than the Necrons.
Why? They assumed the Necrons were simple machines.
They knew the Death Korps were humans underneath the masks. Many of them were teenagers, no less marching completely and utterly unresisting to their deaths.
As for the Flayed One bit--the skin part is part of the curse that they were subjected to from what I can tell.
Kanluwen wrote:If you don't buy into the theory that the Outsider was the Hive Mind, you don't buy into the C'Tan and Necrontyr creating the Pariah Gene in humanity.
Just sayin'. Pariahs are/were psychically charged beings, even if they do damage the Warp entities near them.
Why is that?
Since you are the first person to say Pariahs were psychically charged beings, that I have heard.
As for the Flayed One bit--the skin part is part of the curse that they were subjected to from what I can tell.
Kanluwen wrote:Pariahs, whilst registering negatively within the Warp...still register within the Warp.
Same with the Pylons that we see on Cadia, which are reputedly of Necrontyr make.
Again, what are you basing this on?
"Untouchables are individuals who have no warp signature."
This is from the Dark Heresy core rulebook.
No other Pariah/Blank source I can recall says they register in the Warp, or have a Warp signature. Rather, they negatively affect the Warp's attempts to encroach into the Materium, be it through psykers or daemons, whatever.
Kanluwen wrote:I'm going off the fact that Pariahs != Untouchables, for the most part.
Pariahs do register within the Warp, but not so much as you think. They register as a 'Blank' where the Warp cannot exist.
Hence why they're more popularly called "Blanks".
Yet peculiarly, in every source I have seen, Blanks/Untouchables are referred to as having the Pariah Gene. Such as for instance Eisenhorn, or Prospero Burns.
Not to mention, in the Necron codex, Pariahs are explicitly noted to be capable of "blotting out psychic emanations". Like a Blank.
They are also completely soulless, which means you don't have a Warp presence.
What is your source for suggesting that Pariahs don't have a Warp presence?
Any Necron Character that cuts Grand Marshal Helbrecht's limb off as a reminder that 'You lost by this much' and pushing him off a cliff deserves a Gold Star on his performance record.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/06 03:29:42
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'We are the force which breaks the enemy's spear, shattering its haft with the teachings of Mont'ka!' - Commander WindSabre, Shas'O O'Shirada before the counter attack against the Raven Guard Space Marines on Tellidan II.
'The only perk from being a Captain is that I get my own private bathroom.'
Captain Esh of the 24th Iron Tortoise Artillery Regiment during an officer's speach a regimental inaugeration on Calador.
Kanluwen wrote:I'm going off the fact that Pariahs != Untouchables, for the most part.
Pariahs do register within the Warp, but not so much as you think. They register as a 'Blank' where the Warp cannot exist.
Hence why they're more popularly called "Blanks".
Yet peculiarly, in every source I have seen, Blanks/Untouchables are referred to as having the Pariah Gene. Such as for instance Eisenhorn, or Prospero Burns.
Not to mention, in the Necron codex, Pariahs are explicitly noted to be capable of "blotting out psychic emanations". Like a Blank.
They are also completely soulless, which means you don't have a Warp presence.
What is your source for suggesting that Pariahs don't have a Warp presence?
You mean what is my source for suggesting that they do register within the Warp?
The fact that they impact it as greatly as they do.
Also, in reference to Blanks/Untouchables...
Untouchables, while having the Pariah Gene, are not the same as your run of the mill Pariah. Using the Blank/Untouchable/Pariah thing as interchangeable is a place where some of the authors have futzed up.
StormForged wrote:Any Necron Character that cuts Grand Marshal Helbrecht's limb off as a reminder that 'You lost by this much' and pushing him off a cliff deserves a Gold Star on his performance record.
Kanluwen wrote:You mean what is my source for suggesting that they do register within the Warp?
The fact that they impact it as greatly as they do.
Also, in reference to Blanks/Untouchables...
Untouchables, while having the Pariah Gene, are not the same as your run of the mill Pariah. Using the Blank/Untouchable/Pariah thing as interchangeable is a place where some of the authors have futzed up.
I'm not getting your logic.
They can feth up Warp-related beings, we know that. That doesn't mean they have a Warp presence, or were created through psychic means. The notion that the completely immaterial can interact and harm the material, but the completely material can't do the opposite, comes off as ridiculous to me. As such, I can easily believe that a C'tan could create something which can dampen or harm the Immaterium, while also not believing something explicitly described as a massively powerful psychic presence and a being that is inherently anti-psychic are the same thing.
I'd agree they aren't "the same," in that Pariahs as a rule seem to be more powerful.
Though to be honest, this is an aspect of 40k fluff I'm not entirely sure on myself, since I can't recall a source that details the difference between a Blank or a Pariah.
StormForged wrote:Any Necron Character that cuts Grand Marshal Helbrecht's limb off as a reminder that 'You lost by this much' and pushing him off a cliff deserves a Gold Star on his performance record.
Now that is style. What story is that from?
It's one of the small stories in the Necron Codex. It even has the part where the Marshal is screaming in fury as he tumbles off the cliff.
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'We are the force which breaks the enemy's spear, shattering its haft with the teachings of Mont'ka!' - Commander WindSabre, Shas'O O'Shirada before the counter attack against the Raven Guard Space Marines on Tellidan II.
'The only perk from being a Captain is that I get my own private bathroom.'
Captain Esh of the 24th Iron Tortoise Artillery Regiment during an officer's speach a regimental inaugeration on Calador.
nomotog wrote:Now that is style. What story is that from?
It's some of the fluff concerning Imotekh, who is the "main" Necron Overlord in the codex (Which I have finished). He's renowned as being possibly the greatest strategist the galaxy has ever seen, and bested Helbrecht in martial combat, but spared his life.
Kanluwen wrote:You mean what is my source for suggesting that they do register within the Warp?
The fact that they impact it as greatly as they do.
Also, in reference to Blanks/Untouchables...
Untouchables, while having the Pariah Gene, are not the same as your run of the mill Pariah. Using the Blank/Untouchable/Pariah thing as interchangeable is a place where some of the authors have futzed up.
I'm not getting your logic.
They can feth up Warp-related beings, we know that. That doesn't mean they have a Warp presence, or were created through psychic means. The notion that the completely immaterial can interact and harm the material, but the completely material can't do the opposite, comes off as ridiculous to me. As such, I can easily believe that a C'tan could create something which can dampen or harm the Immaterium, while also not believing something explicitly described as a massively powerful psychic presence and a being that is inherently anti-psychic are the same thing.
I'd agree they aren't "the same," in that Pariahs as a rule seem to be more powerful.
Though to be honest, this is an aspect of 40k fluff I'm not entirely sure on myself, since I can't recall a source that details the difference between a Blank or a Pariah.
Basically: Blanks have a lesser effect upon psykers than Pariahs do.
And the reason I used the Pariah example in regards to the Hive Mind/Outsider bit is a simple one. While you might think it's a tad strange...think about it like this.
What better way to feth up the Immaterium than to use something like the Tyranid Hive Fleets, which generate a 'Shadow' disrupting the Immaterium.
The whole fleet thing... I'm ignoring Matt Ward and Co.'s slaughter of that. Necrons have FTL travel and the ability to teleport across the galaxy and if you say else wise then, "LALALALALALALALALALALA!!!! I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
Maybe if we all group together and agree that Necron webway travel doesn't exist and that they only use FTL travel and other awesome non warp based modes of travel....
Also I'm hoping that the Void Dragon is an uber shard stuck on Mars.
As for the Outsider, I could see him now being a collection of shards merging into one new uber C'tan bent on revenge and the decimation/complete and utter serivtude of the Galaxy to him. Galaxy watch out!
And let the Deceiver shards continue to make everyone to have a bad day
Edit: Grammar
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/06 05:38:00
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
Sounds like this could really put the kaibosh on Relic's plans for Dawn of War III, since Taldeer's knowledge of the Necron tomb worlds seemed to play into a larger plot (I think fan consensus was that the canon ending of Retribution would be an amalgamation of the Space Marine, Imperial Guard, and Eldar storylines).
looking back over the first Necron Codex, it looks like the 'Crons didn't have anything approaching FTL until after they made deals with the C'tan. If the FTL is provided by the C'Tan there might be reasons why they avoid using it much (the same reasons they are leery of employing the SHards in general and prefer to have them stuffed in pocket dimensions.)
There could be any number of problems as well with normal necron FTL that the webway access wouldn't have - it might not be as fast, it might require line of sight or a point to point connection, it might require specific conditions to work, etc.
It's not as if webway travel is perfectly safe either. That's kinda the problem, theres far more we dont know and not much we do. at least pre 5th edition.
I was reading over the fluff and after the first 10 pages or so, I just had to stop. I couldn't stand the over use of the words "millions" and "billions", I mean how many Necrons were there to begin with? From what the codex says there has to be at least a trillion or so of them, with lines like "they are losing millions of Necrons to malfunctioning Tomb Worlds, stars going super nova, and collapsing planets."
I just can't stand when writers just start over using words like that. And along those lines, why did the Silent King choose to sleep for "60 million years?" Isn't that just a tad over kill? Did he know something no one else knew? Or did he just pull up a random number generator and went with it?
I don't know, I'm still iffy on the fluff. I just have to try and get past the insane exaggerations.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/06 10:27:15
Well its not inconceivable that there are trillions of necrons to begin with.
Our planet has what, 7 billion people on it? Hive worlds of the imperium have upwards of 20-30 billion people on it... if necron capital worlds had the same number of people as imperial hive worlds, then sure, its not hard to imagine a couple dozen capital worlds + other planets might hold a trillion necrons between them.
And yea, it seems odd to sleep for 60 million years... but the necrons are deathless. He probably imagined that the necrons would pass from an enemy race of the eldar, into a legend forgotten by almost everyone, until they can rise again and slowly retake their empire in secrecy.
You also can't know that 60 million years isn't a nice, round, even measurement of time in a necron calendar. Perhaps its the equivalent of 1 "eon" or some other strange necron measurement of time.
So, Mat Ward managed to not only wreck Pariahs and C'tan but also the Necron ships in Battlefleet Gothic.... Good that GW doesn't update them anymore, otherwise they would lose their speed boost. I'm just going to ignore that. Do Necrons still teleport back home when they are destroyed? Or are they just programs that can be uploaded into a new body? Otherwise they would be doomed worse than the Eldar after completely losing the ability to procreate....
Ok, I have read new Necron codex and I will now present my personal opinion on it.
WARNING, the following text contains HUGE spoiler so if anyone didn't read new Necron fluff yet do not read it.
Spoiler:
Things that rock:
-Necrons are bad ass now. They are no more brain-dead zombie robots ( at least not all of them ). They have society, hierarchy, emotions and individuality. Not that only they have all that they also wiped out the Old Ones and then the C'Tan when they realised what the C'Tan did to them. Badass.
-Silent King, the most badass of them all. The one who said "Yes" to the C'Tan proposal and who was the only sentient Necron in War in the Haven. The one who, after they defeated the Old Ones, told the C'Tan to feth themselves and turn ENTIRE Necron race against them and destroyed them in thousands of tiny peaces. But, the main reason why I like him is because when he saw the last of the Tomb world go into hibernation he destroyed the device that was gicen to him to control entire Necron race, thus returning them their individuality and personality. Badass
-Tomb World of Sarkon - The Borg of the 41'st millennium. Because of the radiation storms for over 60 million years all individuality and personality in Necron bodies dissapeared, thus living entire tomb world full of brain-dead robotic bodies. In the show then comes Tomb Complex master program not only took control of their bodies, he went to the neares Tomb world, erase all personality and individualism from those bodies to and took them under control. Now, the master control is even capturing living creatures and taking them under his control by using mindshackle scarabs. "We are the Sarkon, all you technological and biological marvel will belong to us. Resistance is futile". Badass Borgs.
-Thaszar the Invincible - He got exiled and when his Tomb World was in hibernation he returned and erased his out casting from memory of all the Necrons and planted them idea that he is thei leader and King. Profit.
-Nepthk - he trolled the Orks who were just seconds from smashing his Tomb World by offering him several doomsday cannon in exchange for Orks letting them alone. When the Orks attacked new world Eden Prime ( Mass Effect revelation anyone? ) the Warboss activated doomsday weapon which overloaded and blow the Orks and a planet into tiny little bits of matter. TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO.......
-The siege of Somonor and escape from Cano'var - Necrons shows their honor here and let and Eldar Farseer, Eldar Pathfinder and White Scars Space Marine Khan to leave the Tomb World unharmed and well.
-Fall of Hypnoth - Necrons were able to defeat not 1 but 2 Space Marine chapters here, showing their ferocity in battle.
-Lychguard, they have shield that makes them not only being able to survive powerful shot, but also to point out energy of that shot to nearest enemy unit.
-C'Tan shard special ability "Lord of Fire" - All flameers and melta guns explode on 1 ( just like Plasma Weapons ), SoB players will LOVE this...
-Trazyn the infinite - not only that he is collecting history, he is also an gentlemen. Once a Lady Inquisitor raided his museum, without success. She then send 3 Catachan Regiments to destroy him. He reply to her by thanking her for sending those Guardsman because he needed to fill out an exhibit and in return he send to her a Necron artifact as a gift. Isn't taht nice?
-Eldar are awesome, Necrons are scared of them more than anything else. They even fight in such valor that even the Space Marines would honor them.
-Tyranids are awesome, being able to worry even the Silent King.
-Black Tempalrs are epic-uber awesome. Helbrecht get owned by Imotekh who sever his right hand to "let him remind it of this battle" and toss him in the bottomless pit. 55 years later Helbrecht and his Black Tempalrs find Imotekh and his capital ship and kick his ass so hard that Imotekh run like little girl by teleporting on one of the escort vessels and run like hell. Even if Marshal Helbrecht was in rigteous rage and fury he finished his revenge by slaming Imotekh capital ship "Inevitable Conqueror" into the star and blowing upo any Necron ship that was to slow to escape Black Templar fleet. UBER -MEGA BADASS!!!
-Orikan the Diviner - he can see future ( wow ). He once seen that Imperial Navy dockworld of Helios VI had to fall to the Orks so that his NEcron Dynasty could expand. He then return to the past and attack Silver Sculls 4'th company who helped in the original world defense. He nearly wiped them out there and as a result the world fell to the Orks witch was later exterminated by Orikan Necrons. But as law of physic said: "every action has it's opposite reaction" as Silver Skulls return to that sector with some buddies ( Death Specters, Howling Griffons and 3 other Space Marine Chapters ) and totally destroyed his Tomb World in Lazar system. Great FAIL for a Necron who can see the future.
Things that sucked: ( note that this is in my opinion so every debate is welcome )
-Necrons defeated the C'Tan and still have billions of solders alive and well + captured C'Tan shards but then they became afraid of the Eldar and went to sleep to avoid their wrath. Now the Eldar are the greatest of their foes? Nice turnout but for a race that is on a brink of extinction to much...
-Thanatos and the Celestial Orrery - Necrons are because of this the most powerful race in the galaxy. Inside this planet is a device that represent map of Milky Way galaxy with all stars in it. The stars are represented as a glowing light, when you "snuff" one of this light that star in real world will go supernova and wreck everything in it's path. Necrons can now easily stop an entire Tyranid race by blowing up stars in systems that Hive Fleets are present. They can also destroy Imperium, Tau empire and every other major galactic race by blowing up stars in their major Star systems. Totaly stupid and OP.
-Tyranids are much, much stronger according to Silent King who is afraid of younger races feeding them to a point were even the Necrons at their full power couldn't defeat them. The fact that Tyranids strike fear into Silent King, the ma... Necron who destroyed the C'Tan is a.... never mind.
-C'Tan are not gods, not really. They are now super-advanced race who is using life force of a star and living beings to feed their technology and bodies. They have enormous ships that can create black holes and that can transform entire race into legion of unstoppable robots. Yet, they were defeated by the Old Ones who only had webway for their advantage and later Necrons who are their sevants.Massive fail for the C'Tan.
-Necrons do not have their massive, uber powerful, "in a blink on the other side of the galaxy" shps. They use their old ships from a time when they first colonise stars, ships that are in fact stasis and who need a LOT of years to reach nearby planet. Looks like the Tau got a friend in FTL tech here
-Imperial Fist are again massacred, this time 3 entire companies ( 300 marines ) get slaughtered at Uttu Prime by Necrons.
-The incident in Blood Angel codex is now known as "Alliance at Devil's Crag", witch means that Necrons DID ally with Blood Angels to defeat Tyranids. ( thus proving some people here wrong )
-Imotech, even if he is great tactician and leader is doomed to fall in the future because his dynasty have come to attention of Ultramarines ( notable Marneus Calgar ), Ilyanden Eldar, Tyranid Hive Fleet and Tau Empire. His dynasty will come in contact with all of them in short time and then he will have war with several factions at the same time.
-The fact that Tryzan have a giant man clad in baroque power armor that many people hinted as one of the missing Primarchs of the Emperor.
Note again that this is in my humble opinion and every debate on my points is open, so try not to insult or start a fight.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/06 14:02:06
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
Brother Coa, I don't know if it's a Tranlsation diffrence between our books, but mine never says anything about super advanced shipts for the C'tan.
It says "called into being by the reality warping powers of the C'tan" for all the Black holes and what not. They really are still Gods, and the fact is Trillions of Necrons were destroyed, Just to shatter the C'tan. I think they are Gods in every sense of the Word. The C'tan are still the most powerful beings to step foot in the Galaxy.
Their ships are mentioned on the original Necrontyr worlds, the C'Tan used them to transfer Necrons in what they are now. My assumption is that they also use that ships to deliver Necrons to other worlds faster and to make this "black holes". But that is just my assumption now, I could be wrong.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And one more thing, I am disappointed how they use a lot of old pictures instead of drawing new ones.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/06 14:23:50
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! None shall stand against the Crusade of the Righteous!!! Kanluwen wrote: "I like the Tau. I just don't like people misconstruing things to say that it means that they're somehow a huge galactic threat. They're not. They're a threat to the Imperium of Man like sharks are a threat to the US Army."
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" Emperor of Mankind:
"The day I have a sit-down with a pansy elf, magic mushroom, or commie frog is the day I put a bolt shell in my head."
in your name it shall be done" My YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/2SSSR2
Viersche wrote:
Abadabadoobaddon wrote:
the Emperor might be the greatest psyker that ever lived, but he doesn't have the specialized training that a Grey Knight has. Also he doesn't have a Grey Knight's unshakable faith in the Emperor.
The Emperor doesn't have a GKs unshakable faith in the Emperor which is....basically himself?
Ronin wrote:
"Brother Coa (and the OP Tadashi) is like, the biggest IoM fanboy I can think of here. It's like he IS from the Imperium, sent back in time and across dimensions."
Brother Coa wrote:Their ships are mentioned on the original Necrontyr worlds, the C'Tan used them to transfer Necrons in what they are now. My assumption is that they also use that ships to deliver Necrons to other worlds faster and to make this "black holes". But that is just my assumption now, I could be wrong.
My Book says nothing about Ships, transforming the Necrontyr into what they are. Mine just says they used "Bio-Furances" to do the transfer. In addition, I just provided you with the quote from my book, about the black holes. I'll the entire quote.
"Planets were razed, suns extinguished and whole systems devoured by black holes called into being by the reality warping powers of the Star Gods" There is nothing about this being caused by Ships, but instead by the Godly powers of the C'tan.
The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer
Necrons are pathetic.
Before, they were some of the coolest races in the game- soulless metal skeletons, commanded by the C'tan to harvest all life for them. They were scary, unrelenting and absolutely awesome.
Now?
Weak BA-friends..
And now, necrons have strong personalities, and shattered the C'tan. This is my reaction.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/11/29 10:28:25
nomotog wrote:Now that is style. What story is that from?
It's some of the fluff concerning Imotekh, who is the "main" Necron Overlord in the codex (Which I have finished). He's renowned as being possibly the greatest strategist the galaxy has ever seen, and bested Helbrecht in martial combat, but spared his life.
Breathing new life into the Necron codex was very much needed. Game mechanics aside, there was just too much mystery and unknown for a race that was eleventy trillion years old. They needed to be more then just T-100 killing life.
I grade the execution as a F-.
I think Ward drinks while he writes. Every time things start out good and as he gets drunk, the fluff turns to crap by leaps and bounds. Just too many times when an idea is presented it could be great as it stands, but then it doubles, triples, quaddruples into crap. The star map crap, reminiscent of the GK little black box.
Ward doesn't takes things one step too far, he takes things a running leap off of a giant cliff. Explaining the nobility lines and such of the Necrons. Good. Spiraling into pages and pages of the crap from the top to the lowly bottom, both with the units but also the tomb worlds and blah and blah, and BLAH!
Seriously, the guy needs to learn when to put down the pen.
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to
are cute
smell 
). He once seen that Imperial Navy dockworld of Helios 
For Emperor and Imperium!!!! 
"Pain is temporary, honor is forever" 
in your name it shall be done" 
4000+
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Thousand Sons 4000+
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