Definitely Not a Leaked 6th Rulebook, Don't Even Bother Looking

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**mrfantastical**

Slave wrote:
Cerebrium wrote:Yep, wound allocation is "fixed". No more having to kill "10 nobz" to remove 5 of them.

That's what I thought. How that crap was left this ong is insane, but then again, it is GW!

Yeah because nob wound allocation shenanigans was really winning tournaments. If this Leak is the shape of things to come, why would anyone play Orks?

-Big Mek KFF doesn't give cove to vehicles
-Ghazghull's Waagh doesn't give fleet
-average cover save is 5+ now
-ccw's are AP6
-overwatch/defensive fire from anyone you try to assault
-direct hits to pick out the nob in the boy unit
-can only assault from open topped vehicles if it went combat speed
-oh yeah and no more wound shenanigans

GW HATES ORKS!!!!

**Pilau Rice**

Initial thoughts

MONSTROUS CREATURE
• Multi-targeting (2)

Liking this

Not sure on for a Flyrant for example in the case of:

The EV of a unit with at least one massive model
is modified by -1. Massive models are subject to
additional rules for ramming and the use of
grenades, as explained in the respective sections.

Flyer
Due to their high speed flyers have always an EV
of 6 that is not further modified.

Does that mean 6 - 1 or always 6?

Must be a GW document as

Against massive units and vehicles however,
inflicting damage with grenades is less abstract. A
well-placed grenade can often achieve a kill on a
vehicle or wound even the largest creature.

Mine: Melta bombs cannot be used against
models that are not vehicles

golden GW

I might be missing this but it looks as if close combat against Walkers changed to that you always hit on the rear armour? There doesn't seem to be a Walkers section.

Looks like you can now assault out of Rhinos too if you only move at combat speed.

Liking the new rules, if that’s indeed what they are, so far.

**Rugrud**

All flamer template have by default a range of 3"? (p83).
That's nice!

**tkrettler91**

i think these rules all slow down the game a lot, have to wait and see. also not liking some of what im seeing when thinking about my orks but for tau i think it might be nice.

**I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly**

Pacific wrote:
I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly wrote:If this is real, I think it is great that they are shaking things up a bit, and introducing new rules/changing ones that have persisted a long time. Certainly it would be great to have a game where it's harder to hit an infantryman running behind some bushes 60" away than the broad side of a parked land raider 3" away!

But I'm not sure if it's real or not, so I won't go around hypothesizing which units have gone up or down just yet.

This is the thing, I think people's joy at being able to experience a new system is making them blind to the massive white elephants (several of them) standing in the room, trumpeting in their faces.

It's like everyone has simply forgotten the previous fake Nid and BA codecies, which produced a similar poo-storm. That this could well be the work of a scurrilous individual with too much time on their hands cannot be overlooked.

Personally, I think the redesign is far too radical for a company that has become increasingly conservative with it's rules updates. Each edition since 2nd, and this is the same with WFB, has changed the rules in smaller and smaller increments. And then we get something like this altering something as fundamental as the BS value to hit (which has existed with GW since the beginning)? I'm sorry but I don't buy it.

Good point. The rules changes in this 'leak' would require at least a reprinting of every codex, or army lists in the big book. That would be a massive change of policy. I think it would be great if the game was redesigned and all the books set at a rebalanced level - but it seems like a long shot. I am leaning more and more to this being fake.

**Karnac**

mrfantastical wrote:
Slave wrote:
Cerebrium wrote:Yep, wound allocation is "fixed". No more having to kill "10 nobz" to remove 5 of them.

That's what I thought. How that crap was left this ong is insane, but then again, it is GW!

Yeah because nob wound allocation shenanigans was really winning tournaments. If this Leak is the shape of things to come, why would anyone play Orks?

-Big Mek KFF doesn't give cove to vehicles
-Ghazghull's Waagh doesn't give fleet
-average cover save is 5+ now
-ccw's are AP6
-overwatch/defensive fire from anyone you try to assault
-direct hits to pick out the nob in the boy unit
-can only assault from open topped vehicles if it went combat speed
-oh yeah and no more wound shenanigans

GW HATES ORKS!!!!

I havn't read it all yet but some of the new rules will favour swarms of cheap units in CC.
the "who can fight?" range in CC has been increased to all models within 3" of a unit member in contact with the enemy, instead of the current 2".
=MOAR BOYZ in CC per assault.

**Latro_**

mrfantastical wrote:
Slave wrote:
Cerebrium wrote:Yep, wound allocation is "fixed". No more having to kill "10 nobz" to remove 5 of them.

That's what I thought. How that crap was left this ong is insane, but then again, it is GW!

Yeah because nob wound allocation shenanigans was really winning tournaments. If this Leak is the shape of things to come, why would anyone play Orks?

-Big Mek KFF doesn't give cove to vehicles
-Ghazghull's Waagh doesn't give fleet
-average cover save is 5+ now
-ccw's are AP6
-overwatch/defensive fire from anyone you try to assault
-direct hits to pick out the nob in the boy unit
-can only assault from open topped vehicles if it went combat speed
-oh yeah and no more wound shenanigans

GW HATES ORKS!!!!

Run = x2 movement.
Fleet = +2m
Assault = x2 movement.
Means an entire ork army when they call the waaaaarrgghh can all charge 16″...

And they would of been getting there every turn before that at 12" a turn. So assuming 12" deployment they will be 40" onto the board by turn 2... Currently to do this you need to roll pretty much a 6 for the first turns run and a 6 for the second turns fleet, for every single unit individually...

Then again they cant fire and rapid fire/blast looks more effective against them so maybe its balanced but you would have ONE turn to shoot at them before they easily hit your lines enmass (if they go first). Good luck killing 130 orks in one turn.

You were saying...

**Karnac**

I have mixed feelings about the Instant death rules.

under the new one's Strength 8 weapons wont insta kill my Tyranid warriors anymore, just take 2 wounds off.

The tradeoff, Str 10 shots are going to take 2 wounds off each on my T6 TMC's!

**Rugrud**

Instant shaken when the transport is destroyed? Ouch...

**gorgon**

There are some significant changes in this doc from the stuff that leaked months back. But I think enough is similar that slogging Orks and Tyranids will indeed see some significant improvement. The greater footspeed alone made a huge difference in the playtest game that Cruentus and I played previously.

I am very excited about the future of 40k.

**Warboss Gutrip**

Slave wrote:Am I right in being glad that the armor groups rule removes the idiocy that was the nobz mobs?

Not to mention Paladins...

**lord_blackfang**

mrfantastical wrote:

-Big Mek KFF doesn't give cove to vehicles

Where are you getting that from?

-overwatch/defensive fire from anyone you try to assault

lol no

Overwatch is a special ability that is currently only on Coteaz and his unit, and can be bought as a strategem for units sitting on an objective.

Defensive fire only works if:
-a unit is being rammed
-a unit has trapped another unit in a wrecked transport
-a unit deep strikes within 12" of an enemy

-can only assault from open topped vehicles if it went combat speed

Yes, but you can do a Charge, which is double speed. So you're not actually losing any range compared to the old rules.

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

If this is a rumoured leak for our reaction, after reading the summery and flicking through the PDF's I have to say.

Do it GW, do eet!

**Revarien**

This hasn't hurt wound allocation on elite units, imo. You can still spread wounds around like crazy... just at the end of the turn, you have to consolidate wounds onto whole models, and remove them from units of your choosing. A little wacky, but you get to choose it all.

Pg 76 of the 'rulebook'.... patch up

**tongalad**

I just tried to download it but it's been deleted.

anyone know where it can be accessed?

**Unit1126PLL**

agnosto wrote:
CT GAMER wrote: 1. Any tank with Armour 14 is a "beheamoth" and gets "multi-targeting".
2. close toped tanks confer a -1 on the damage roll table

Land raiders just got more badass

They needed something since each one of my broadsides will be hitting them 4 times a turn, each, with railguns.... yeah; let's just pause and thin about that for a minute. ahhh.

Actually the Multi-Targeting rule says you cannot use it to fire a weapon more than once- only fire additional weapons on the model.

**Lunchmonkey**

All the Vehicle rules such as multi-targeting etc, seem to fit alot with the new necrons with thier guass flayers.

**Breotan**

Moving:

Before you start to move the models you can measure where your models would finish their move. It is perfectly fine to measure a unit’s move in one direction, and then change your mind and decide to move it somewhere else or decide not to move it at all. You can decide whether you wish to go through terrain while you are measuring. However, you cannot change the declared Move action.

Shooting:

All weapons have a maximum effective range, which is the furthest distance they can shoot. If a target is beyond this maximum range, the shot misses automatically. This is why you have to choose your target before measuring the range.

It seems that according to the rules I can premeasure my assault moves but not my shooting. I'd have rather seen the prohibition on premeasuring done away with altogether, given the premeasuring already built into their RoB boards. It's not perfect but I can live with it.

**scarletsquig**

tongalad wrote:I just tried to download it but it's been deleted.

anyone know where it can be accessed?

Yes.

**benogham**

I can premeasure my assault moves but not my shooting

You can measure after having declared your 'charge' action. It's not the same as measuring to see if you're in range and then declare the charge.

**pretre**

Breotan wrote: I'd have rather seen the prohibition on premeasuring done away with altogether, given the premeasuring already built into their RoB boards. It's not perfect but I can live with it.

Yeah, and the pre-measuring already built into their deployment zones and standard board sizes too. Geeze.

**itsonlyme**

mrfantastical wrote:
Yeah because nob wound allocation shenanigans was really winning tournaments. If this Leak is the shape of things to come, why would anyone play Orks?

-Big Mek KFF doesn't give cove to vehicles
-Ghazghull's Waagh doesn't give fleet
-average cover save is 5+ now
-ccw's are AP6
-overwatch/defensive fire from anyone you try to assault
-direct hits to pick out the nob in the boy unit
-can only assault from open topped vehicles if it went combat speed
-oh yeah and no more wound shenanigans

GW HATES ORKS!!!!

- KFF is silly on tanks, it only gives a 5+ to troops but a 4+ to tanks, makes no sense at all, also alot of things will be getting -1 to damage rolls such as canz
- Why should Orks have M8 when ghaz waaghs?
- Yes I an sure thats going to break the game with all 4 extra models you lose a game
- from what i read in the pdf overwatch is a special rule like rentless, its actually a rule cortez gets in place of his current rule, IE not everyone has it! defensive effects every assault army, its going to be justas painful for marines trying to charge a unit with plasma weapons.
- effects everyone, thankfully only snipers and characters have the rule
- why is that a bad thing....
- effects paladins as well

Maybe they do, depends how legit this list is

**pretre**

Pilau Rice wrote:Must be a GW document as

Against massive units and vehicles however,
inflicting damage with grenades is less abstract. A
well-placed grenade can often achieve a kill on a
vehicle or wound even the largest creature.

Mine: Melta bombs cannot be used against
models that are not vehicles

golden GW

Grenades can be used against MC but not Grenades with the Mine special rule. That seems pretty clear.

**cygnnus**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
agnosto wrote:
CT GAMER wrote: 1. Any tank with Armour 14 is a "beheamoth" and gets "multi-targeting".
2. close toped tanks confer a -1 on the damage roll table

Land raiders just got more badass

They needed something since each one of my broadsides will be hitting them 4 times a turn, each, with railguns.... yeah; let's just pause and thin about that for a minute. ahhh.

Actually the Multi-Targeting rule says you cannot use it to fire a weapon more than once- only fire additional weapons on the model.

I can't wait for the RAW uber alles crowd to get their hands on this one (assuming, of course it's a) legit and b) how the final rules read anyway).

"Note that the model still cannot fire the same weapon twice."

But it doesn't say I can't shoot the same weapon thrice (or 4 times, 5, etc...).

Valete,

JohnS

**Maelstrom808**

mrfantastical wrote:
Slave wrote:
Cerebrium wrote:Yep, wound allocation is "fixed". No more having to kill "10 nobz" to remove 5 of them.

That's what I thought. How that crap was left this ong is insane, but then again, it is GW!

Yeah because nob wound allocation shenanigans was really winning tournaments. If this Leak is the shape of things to come, why would anyone play Orks?

-Big Mek KFF doesn't give cove to vehicles

The only mention I see of vehicles not getting cover is under the terrain rules in the vehicle section. If taken out of context I guess you could play it that way, but I think it's pretty clear that line is only meant for area terrain/interveaning models. If this is the real deal, I suspect that will be fixed by release or there will be a FAQ allowing the KFF to work as it should.

-Ghazghull's Waagh doesn't give fleet

Latro covered this nicely

-average cover save is 5+ now

True, but it hurts other armies (nids) just as bad.

-ccw's are AP6

Like I said before on this it sucks, but at least only imperial armies really have CCWs on non-assault based units.

-overwatch/defensive fire from anyone you try to assault

Uh, no. If I read everything correctly, overwatch is a special rule that the unit must have to give you the ability to use defensive fire if an enemy unit uses a move action within 12". No units in the game have it currently that I can think of, and I don't think it will be handed out like candy.

-direct hits to pick out the nob in the boy unit

Again, only if the firing weapon/model/unit has the direct hit special rule (sniper rifles do), and only if you allocate the wound to the Nob's armor group.

-can only assault from open topped vehicles if it went combat speed

True, but open topped vehicles allow you to make a charge action, instead of only an engage action. This effectively doubles your assault range, thus making up for the shorter move of the vehicle.

-oh yeah and no more wound shenanigans

True as well, but they are called sheninigans for a reason

GW HATES ORKS!!!!

Overall, the orks took a kick in the nuts that they shouldn't (assuming this is the real deal), but it's not quite as bad as you make out here.

**Arclaw**

Although it'd probably never work very well, this does get me excited for using a fluffy Tallarn Desert Raiders force... more reliable reserves, no randomised table edge for the Al'Rahem outflank, and then slipping squads off the table edge with the Tactical Withdrawal rule when it gets too dangerous to deny the VP... Sounds like a raid to me!

Some of the changes really do make me a bit worried for my orks though... particularly the KFF nerf (dang, had just finished painting one up!).

On the whole though I think this is going to make for a much better/more exciting game. Thumbs up GW!

**Cerebrium**

I'm just looking forward to my deep-striking Grey Knight Terminator force bringing even more pain. I deepstrike 18-24" out, don't scatter, and open a whole 6-pack of whoop-ass shooting.

**Angel_of_Rust**

Liquifier guns are sure going to be a lot of fun, d6 autohits with d6 AP? delicious.

**His Master's Voice**

cygnnus wrote:But it doesn't say I can't shoot the same weapon thrice (or 4 times, 5, etc...).

Valete,

JohnS

This kind of reasoning can get people killed. Hardbacks hit hard.

**Agent_Tremolo**

So, orks lose +1 WS from the Waaagh Banner (now an ordinary standard bearer), nob wound allocation, KFF 4+ cover saves to vehicles, armor saves on h2h...

And gain... Stompas? Not exactly a good trade but not bad either...