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 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:
For the "Magnus is Ragnar's bitch"... actually Draigo beat Mortarion who was ENTIRELY in the Materium.
Ragnar pocked Magnus in the Eye while the evocation was in progress, so the Cyclope wasn't in the Materium.
So, yeah, Ragnar in THAT occasion wasn't so OTT. But still, he was.

For the others time, I didn't read so I dunno.

Still, Ragnar is a snowflake in hell.

And he did it twice with a very magical spear, so for OTT it ain't that bad. It must be said it's odd that they chose that spear. I mean the magical property of the spear was that it didn't stick in the wound. So it should just hit and not stick.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

And he did it twice with a very magical spear, so for OTT it ain't that bad. It must be said it's odd that they chose that spear. I mean the magical property of the spear was that it didn't stick in the wound. So it should just hit and not stick.

I dunno, really.

Don't feth with Ragnar..I' tell you, heads will fall...He is an epic character, don't even compare him to Draigo or I'll bash some skulls....

PredaKhaine wrote:

I want to know what they'll do next - we've had Wolves riding wolves so perhaps we'll get servitor wolves with quintuple linked lascannons or maybe if we're really lucky we'll get the wolf fighter or the wolf bomber which, given the way we're going will be ACTUAL wolves with wings stuck on and flying goggles.

Given GW's love of large oval based models, maybe they will make a pack of cyber wolves that join up to form WOLFTRON! A Jump Monsterous Creature with WS10, BS10, S10, T10, W9, I10, LD 10, 2+/3++ w/Fearless, Counter Attack, Acute Senses, Night Vision, Fleet, Rage, Interceptor, Skyfire, Preferred Enemy (Everything), Hatred, Infiltrate, and Scout. Weapons include the Wolf-Cannon (a ST10 AP1 Heavy 5, Large Blast ,Armourbane, Barrage w/105" range that launches explosive wolves into the midst of their enemies! ) and the Grand Wolf Sword of Wolfiness (a Melee weapon that ignores all saves of any kind, causes ID, and adds +2D6 attacks with a successful LD test)

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:
For the "Magnus is Ragnar's bitch"... actually Draigo beat Mortarion who was ENTIRELY in the Materium.
Ragnar pocked Magnus in the Eye while the evocation was in progress, so the Cyclope wasn't in the Materium.
So, yeah, Ragnar in THAT occasion wasn't so OTT. But still, he was.

For the others time, I didn't read so I dunno.

Still, Ragnar is a snowflake in hell.

Don't forget surviving against forty genestealers in melee. Literally every other BL publication that features genestealers says that facing that many genestealers that close up is a death sentence. I mean, even in the Word Bearers books, which are infamous for their marine spank, the Genestealers were ripping through the marines like tissue paper. Even the Word Bearers in Terminator armor may as well have been wearing cardboard boxes for all the good it was doing them.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Given GW's love of large oval based models, maybe they will make a pack of cyber wolves that join up to form WOLFTRON! A Jump Monsterous Creature with WS10, BS10, S10, T10, W9, I10, LD 10, 2+/3++ w/Fearless, Counter Attack, Acute Senses, Night Vision, Fleet, Rage, Interceptor, Skyfire, Preferred Enemy (Everything), Hatred, Infiltrate, and Scout. Weapons include the Wolf-Cannon (a ST10 AP1 Heavy 5, Large Blast ,Armourbane, Barrage w/105" range that launches explosive wolves into the midst of their enemies! ) and the Grand Wolf Sword of Wolfiness (a Melee weapon that ignores all saves of any kind, causes ID, and adds +2D6 attacks with a successful LD test)

Actually the Spear of Russ (Gugne) easily can fit that mold of the weapon. It dispatched Magnus for the sake of the Emperor. But it was a spear that could fly through buildings and still hitting it's mark, so I can vouch for the potency of the weapon. It's quite simply the ultimate spear.

DarthMarko wrote:Don't feth with Ragnar..I' tell you, heads will fall...He is an epic character, don't even compare him to Draigo or I'll bash some skulls....

He IS OTT in many ways. And I like Ragnar...

ClassicCarraway wrote:
Given GW's love of large oval based models, maybe they will make a pack of cyber wolves that join up to form WOLFTRON! A Jump Monsterous Creature with WS10, BS10, S10, T10, W9, I10, LD 10, 2+/3++ w/Fearless, Counter Attack, Acute Senses, Night Vision, Fleet, Rage, Interceptor, Skyfire, Preferred Enemy (Everything), Hatred, Infiltrate, and Scout. Weapons include the Wolf-Cannon (a ST10 AP1 Heavy 5, Large Blast ,Armourbane, Barrage w/105" range that launches explosive wolves into the midst of their enemies! ) and the Grand Wolf Sword of Wolfiness (a Melee weapon that ignores all saves of any kind, causes ID, and adds +2D6 attacks with a successful LD test)

Why are you going in the TableTop Game side of the Wolves? We're talking about fluff.
And if you whine about Wolves, would you please tell me what you think of Necrons or GKs?

So I've decided to re-enter this thread and actually lay out my whole stance on the Wolves. The good and the bad, as with everything there is a mix of things.

What I like:

The Space Wolves do represent aspects of individual heroism without fuss that I do find appealing. On a purely background level, I find the fluff of Wolf Guard to be very fitting and a good way they distinguish themselves. There is no real first company ala other Chapters, but a Lord picks out the individuals who he wants and have shown their abilities. Like them or not, all Space Marines are pretty heroic to some degree, but with the Wolves, it is something that is really made into an individual thing.

To go off of the same point, they are highly individualistic as a chapter. In a setting where sticking to the routine is necessary, yet also inevitably destructive, the Wolves break out of that mold somewhat. This, combined with the more heroic ideals of their characters, does make for a slightly brighter spot in the grimdark. And I sincerely appreciate the bits of light in the setting, as it what makes grimdark possible.

While it is limited, the Wolves do retain some personality. There was a quote in the Space Wolves codex, one of those little one-sentence-blown-up bits to add color to a rules or gear page (I forget which) that real along the lines of "don't go dying, because you still owe me drinks and it would be just like you to die and not pay me back." I liked that, as it allowed a bit of personality to show through that I find appealing. They are heroes, but they still joke.

What I don't like:

Their fluff is wildly inconsistent. Even within the codex, they seem to have an identity crises going on and try to fit every role. What this does is create a very discordant tone. Without a consistent tone, fluff from the Space Wolves tends to come out as a mess and is generally harder to really settle on. It gets tiring when the Wolves seamlessly move from role to role without challenges. Something that writers should know is that weaknesses and flaws are a source of story and strength, not a condemnation of the character. A character (in this case, I'm referring to the whole chapter as a 'character') without weakness has nothing to overcome and no chance for significant growth. Basically, the only thing that really matters to the Wolves is the next big bad monster/bad guy, and that's repetitive. It's Goku from Dragon Ball Z; there's no development, just the next arbitrarily more scary bad guy. This kind of wraps into the "special snowflake" thing that people have mentioned before and it is true. The writers have seemed to think that all a character needs is one "cool" moment after another when that formula does not make good characters.

Now that's not to say that the other chapters/factions do not do this as well. It's all over the place in 40k and I list that as a weakness as well. And I also recognize that in a game setting such as 40k, this stagnation is a necessity for the game to function. But it is a flaw.

As far as the OTT-ness, it's there but everyone has some of it. The problem with the Wolves' particular brand of OTT is that it carries no dramatic weight. It's just, like I said before, the writers having nowhere to go with the characters, so they just go up to the next level of "boss monster" and call it good. It saps the meaning of their deeds when it is the only thing they do, and they have no major shortcomings or failures to overcome. Why, as a reader, should I care that Ragnar killed X when it is all he does?

In a purely fluff aspect, the same individuality that elevates heroes for their deeds also makes the chapter as a whole pretty wayward and willful. The Wolves are, for good or ill, pretty thuggish when it comes to this. Now I fully recognize that they may be in the right, such as their protests to the GKs purging the IG who helped fight Angron. But picking a fight is pretty much all the Wolves do with it. They are attack dogs, they bite and pretty much do just that. There's not a lot going on with them.

Finally, and this has to be said for me, but what really turns me off to the Space Wolves are their fans. I mean, not to call people out, but look at this thread. Criticism of the Wolves is mostly met with pretty much childish responses. Again, this is not a defense of other chapters or characters, but this kind of stuff and a staunch refusal of anything other than slavering praise is just off-putting.

 curran12 wrote:
Now I fully recognize that they may be in the right, such as their protests to the GKs purging the IG who helped fight Angron. But picking a fight is pretty much all the Wolves do with it. They are attack dogs, they bite and pretty much do just that. There's not a lot going on with them.

Though you're right, I'd like to point that in this case was the I to attack the Wolves fleet, who simply distract 'em (they never opened fire, even when attacked) so the others Wolves on Armageddon could help the citizens evacuation.
They attacked in response after they lost half their fleet, but never before.
They were the lure in that case.

But, overall, yeah they usually punch first and ask after, even when they're right. Meh, it's their behaviour.

Personally what made me chose the Wolves was the fact that they are, as you said before, heroes. They stands for the citizens, the normal people. Like the Salamanders.
And the fact that they're more human. I often refer to the wolves as "human in power armor". They act like humans, discuss like humans. It's something that in the major part of the chapters you don't see.
Plus, yeah... they're vikings in SPAAAAAAACE.

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

ClassicCarraway wrote:
Given GW's love of large oval based models, maybe they will make a pack of cyber wolves that join up to form WOLFTRON! A Jump Monsterous Creature with WS10, BS10, S10, T10, W9, I10, LD 10, 2+/3++ w/Fearless, Counter Attack, Acute Senses, Night Vision, Fleet, Rage, Interceptor, Skyfire, Preferred Enemy (Everything), Hatred, Infiltrate, and Scout. Weapons include the Wolf-Cannon (a ST10 AP1 Heavy 5, Large Blast ,Armourbane, Barrage w/105" range that launches explosive wolves into the midst of their enemies! ) and the Grand Wolf Sword of Wolfiness (a Melee weapon that ignores all saves of any kind, causes ID, and adds +2D6 attacks with a successful LD test)

Why are you going in the TableTop Game side of the Wolves? We're talking about fluff.
And if you whine about Wolves, would you please tell me what you think of Necrons or GKs?

Because the post I responded to was about where will GW go next, and specifically mentioned new flyers?

As for my opinion on Necrons and GK? Sure, why not. Necrons are easily the most overpowered army in the game, period. I actually like their new fluff (the old fluff was too generic), but the rules are so out of whack with the rest of the game, its ridiculous. I say this from experience as I've played against a Necron army every other week for the last 6 months almost, and my opponent mixes things up regularly. As for GK, I have absolutely zero experience against them as nobody in my group plays them. Not a fan of the fluff or the army structure though (I preferred GK when they were 2nd banana to the Inquisition forces in Codex: Demonhunters).

In all honesty, I'd probably like Space Wolves more if their table top rules and army options reflected more of the fluff.

I'd agree with this, the tabletop game side does have something to do with why people may or may not like Space Wolves, and their current book really incentivized and encouraged gameplay that was generally as far from what one would generally imagine the Space Wolves would actually do as is possible.

Lots of mechanized infantry with AT guns and long range heavy weapons was the norm, and gunlines don't really fit the Space Wolves bill, and that certainly causes additional issues in regards to their perception.


Also, Curran12, excellent points, I feel you expressed my issues much more eloquently than I did.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
So what you are saying is that Stephenie Meyer is a better writer than Abnett?

In context you can make that argument and have it be a valid one. "Who is a better writer" with reguards to their stories is an oppinion. So you can only go with what the selected group thinks. Otherwise you have no argument either way.

It is wrong to use popular oppinion as an argument unless the argument is based on oppinions.

So, rather than commenting on why people hate Space Wolves - which they are perfectly entitled to - I figured I'd describe why I like the Space Wolves - which hopefully I too am entitled to.

To me, the main reason I like the Space Wolves is that they're heroes, but somewhat anti-heroes. I like that, in the grim darkness of the far future and the eternal dickery of the Imperium, there are still good guys; there are still the Space Wolves. Whilst everyone around them are evil, malevolent blighters willing to sacrifice entire populations or punish the innocent, there are still the Space Wolves; warriors that show actual morals, compassion and a care for justice. And as a generally nice, compassionate guy myself, I can really relate to this.
But, they're not your conventional heroes or altruistic individuals; they're almost anti-heroes. The Space Wolves are very loud and unsubtle, brash, boastful individuals that used to be one of the most extreme Legions, with one of the most feared reputations. But, despite this, they still have good intentions. They are entirely unconventional, and yet, they have standards of morality and humanity I can really relate to, and can be rarely seen in 40K. They may not do something in the most conventional, subtle, pleasing, or pretty manner, but they will do it for the right reasons nonetheless. They may have done more harm than good in the wake of Armageddon, but they did it for the right reasons. This links back to Corax's experimentations and their plans for their successor Chapters (as thwarted by Magnus), and once more, this is an attitude I can really relate to. It is this heroism that I really, really like about the Space Wolves.

But on top of this, I like their brotherhood and camaraderie. It's something present in a lot of Space Marines and loyalist factions, and it's something really amiable and appealing for me. Furthermore, I like their joviality and sense of humour: they appear deceptively carefree (and even simple), but in reality, when it comes down to it, they are very, very serious in what they do. They may play hard, but more than that, they will work hard, and don't the forces of Chaos just know it. Once more, this is something I can really relate to. Not because I'm a smiling joker one second and a murdering nutter the next: but because of their dualism in personality and appearance.

Likewise, on top of this serious/jovial dualism, I like the dualism in their methods and appearance. They appear like brash, raving berzerkers - like the Death Company of the Blood Angels - but in reality, they possess real cunning and intelligence. This really slaps of the Wolf metaphor in my mind; sizing up and hunting down their prey, before strategically ripping it to pieces. I think this is something often overlooked in the Wolves: they're not quite charging into your face like the Black Templars, but they're methodologically picking apart their prey before going in for the kill (and then likely then charging into their face).
They're arguably not as capable in close combat as the Templars/Blood Angels, they're not as stealthy as the Raven Guard/Raptors, and they're not as shooty-death-shooty as the Dark Angels, but they do possess all of these qualities and use them to their advantage, and that's what I like. Additionally, I like their ruthlessness, efficiency and nature of going for the throat (or speartip, like Horus' Luna Wolves); this is brutally efficient and against seemingly quite characteristic of the wolf metaphor.
I also like how this plays out on the tabletop. The Wolves' appearance is once more deceptive: many thought they were close combat experts, or (now) a shooty army, but really they are (supposed to be, at least) close quarters specialists, operating best within 24"; shooting their foes and then engaging in melee. Therefore my Space Wolf armies (before I dropped 40K in 6th Ed) would be designed with this in mind. They'd have very little long range weaponry and instead shove Vindicators and Rhinos full of Grey Hunters down the enemies throat, whilst harassing them with Land Speeders and Wolf Scouts.

So, on top of their heroism, anti-heroism, camaraderie, humanity, dualism, cunning, and brutality, what else do I like about the Space Wolves?

Well, their image for one. I remember - when originally trying to decide upon which Chapter to collect - reading an Index Astartes article about the various 1st Founding Chapters. Whilst the image of the Dark Angels leapt out at me (that's right, I like their robes and mysticism!), I found their selfishness and callousness off-putting. Then I saw this image for the Space Wolves (spoilered), and it really captured my enthusiasm.


I mean, that guy looks awesome. So I did some more reading and was really engaged by their general personality (as described above). I love the image of the Space Wolves, the viking theme and the brutality, combined with the regality and bad-assery of the astartes armour. I like the idea of them planting an axe into the skull of a Chaos Space Marine. I like the idea of the curse of the Wulfen, and I like that their personality and imagery hasn't focussed on the werewolf side, and has instead focussed on the vikings.

So yes, that's why I like the Space Wolves: I like their heroic nature and - often unsubtle or unconventional - acts of heroism and morality. I like that they're cunning, yet brutal and wholly effective. I like the imagery they provoke; the viking theme, the deceptive bluntness, and their anti-heroism. And I like how I can connect with them and the core of the themes they present.

They're not perfect - which I also like - and I can fully understand others disliking them (and I dislike some aspects of them or their typical fans), but they're still my favourite of the 40K factions, and they still connect to me.

Note: this is for the 40K Space Wolves; the 30K Space Wolves - whilst cool and also ruthlessly efficient - are dicks and I don't particularly care for them. Although this is cool:

tv tropes wrote:Not As You Knew Them - In 40K the Space Wolves are one of the nicer chapters in their relations with normal humans, especially civilians. During the Crusade, their reputation for ruthlessness, superstition and savagery against their foes made the Vlka Fenryka the most feared force in the galaxy, with some Imperial Army units considering defeat preferable to calling the Rout for help.

/thread.

That was a good read.

 Just Dave wrote:
So, rather than commenting on why people hate Space Wolves - which they are perfectly entitled to - I figured I'd describe why I like the Space Wolves - which hopefully I too am entitled to.

You're not.

Reported for going off-topic, enjoy your ban.

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 Just Dave wrote:
So, rather than commenting on why people hate Space Wolves - which they are perfectly entitled to - I figured I'd describe why I like the Space Wolves - which hopefully I too am entitled to.

You're not.

Reported for going off-topic, enjoy your ban.

FASCIST MODS!

You mean the imperial fist, the ones that defended the palace agianst the IW and other legions all you are showing is a bias leaning towards SW. Dark Angel's don't have a flaw man, sure the heresy thing but its not a flaw in the sense that their gene-seed is corrupt, the Ultramarines don't deserve all the hate and backlash sure they are the pretty-boys of 40k but every game has to have them.

 Gabrial Seth wrote:
You mean the imperial fist, the ones that defended the palace agianst the IW and other legions all you are showing is a bias leaning towards SW. Dark Angel's don't have a flaw man, sure the heresy thing but its not a flaw in the sense that their gene-seed is corrupt, the Ultramarines don't deserve all the hate and backlash sure they are the pretty-boys of 40k but every game has to have them.

I don't understand your post, seriously o_o.
Could you explain, please?

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

 Gabrial Seth wrote:
You mean the imperial fist, the ones that defended the palace agianst the IW and other legions all you are showing is a bias leaning towards SW. Dark Angel's don't have a flaw man, sure the heresy thing but its not a flaw in the sense that their gene-seed is corrupt, the Ultramarines don't deserve all the hate and backlash sure they are the pretty-boys of 40k but every game has to have them.

I don't understand your post, seriously o_o.
Could you explain, please?

Wrong thread, I suspect.

 Gabrial Seth wrote:
Dark Angel's don't have a flaw man, sure the heresy thing but its not a flaw in the sense that their gene-seed is corrupt

DA's certainly have flaws, they will adandon their objectives and hurt a larger mission in order to hide their own shame and pursue their own vengeance, and are rumored to have attacked other Imperial forces to do so.


In regards to the larger topic, going off Just Dave's post, something I've noticed is that many of the SW's fans seem to identify with, or want to identify, very heavily with the SW's, see part of themselves in them. Lots of times I find this rather humorous (no offense intended to anyone) but you usually don't see quite the same thing with many other factions. For instance, I don't really identify or see part of myself in the DKoK or the Iron Warriors.

 Vaktathi wrote:
In regards to the larger topic, going off Just Dave's post, something I've noticed is that many of the SW's fans seem to identify with, or want to identify, very heavily with the SW's, see part of themselves in them. Lots of times I find this rather humorous (no offense intended to anyone) but you usually don't see quite the same thing with many other factions. For instance, I don't really identify or see part of myself in the DKoK or the Iron Warriors.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.
I'm not claiming to be anything similar to a Space Wolf - not least because I'm only 6" and clean-shaven - but I much prefer characters I can identify with, but I can understand people not doing so. It's probably for similar reasons I like Corax, but could never care for Fulgrim or Ferrus. Likewise, I started collecting a post-heresy Emperor's Children army and got bored, largely because I simply couldn't care for them! I don't think it's exclusive to the Space Wolf fans - or I've never noticed it in the past - but it is pretty characteristic of me it seems...

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Gabrial Seth wrote:
Dark Angel's don't have a flaw man, sure the heresy thing but its not a flaw in the sense that their gene-seed is corrupt

DA's certainly have flaws, they will adandon their objectives and hurt a larger mission in order to hide their own shame and pursue their own vengeance, and are rumored to have attacked other Imperial forces to do so.


In regards to the larger topic, going off Just Dave's post, something I've noticed is that many of the SW's fans seem to identify with, or want to identify, very heavily with the SW's, see part of themselves in them. Lots of times I find this rather humorous (no offense intended to anyone) but you usually don't see quite the same thing with many other factions. For instance, I don't really identify or see part of myself in the DKoK or the Iron Warriors.

I was saying gene-seed flaw but killing your allies is a flaw too i guess.

For me i always identified with Lorgar, Fulgrim and Magnus the Red. Now i am no where near tall enough for any of these i am 6'0 and clean shaven but i enjoy their faults as much as the good they bring to the table.

I have a friend who is going SW because he identifies with them while i see them as being uncultured brutes he see's them as something different than that.

This is what makes 40k great the different factions, their stories, the primarchs and what makes them special allows players to find what fits their personality the best and go from there.

Lukas the Trickster


Seriously, he slept with a dozen women in one night? So I guess Space Wolves can either recruit way past the age of other chapters or apparently Fenrisian boys become both sexually prolific and smooth talking ladies men before they hit puberty....

Seriously I cannot stand that character so freaking slowed, he should have been executed several times over for his bullshittery...

Not to mention really you take the Loki trickster god mythos and think up.... a lame ass Bloodclaw who is a ladies man and plays pranks a looney toon would think is lame.

Seriously GW you have angry Space Werewolves who hate tricksey sorcerer types and you couldn't think up a better way to incorporate the Loki mythos other than that abortion.

However Space Wolves kit bash awesomely with Chaos models and for some reason are super cheap from bitz suppliers, so they provide an ample portion of my CSM, so Go Russ I guess......

2x210 wrote:
Lukas the Trickster


Seriously, he slept with a dozen women in one night? So I guess Space Wolves can either recruit way past the age of other chapters or apparently Fenrisian boys become both sexually prolific and smooth talking ladies men before they hit puberty....

Seriously I cannot stand that character so freaking slowed, he should have been executed several times over for his bullshittery...

Not to mention really you take the Loki trickster god mythos and think up.... a lame ass Bloodclaw who is a ladies man and plays pranks a looney toon would think is lame.

Seriously GW you have angry Space Werewolves who hate tricksey sorcerer types and you couldn't think up a better way to incorporate the Loki mythos other than that abortion.

However Space Wolves kit bash awesomely with Chaos models and for some reason are super cheap from bitz suppliers, so they provide an ample portion of my CSM, so Go Russ I guess......

Yeah I know. Maybe he was a staight-shoota or something else really squicky. I choose to interpret it as they are older, and cop it up with a cop-joke. That tends to end any discussion about him.

PunkNeverDie110 wrote:Maybe they ARE? Ehm, they have supersenses thanks to the Canis Helix? What, the fact that they drink the hell up and like to brawl make them bad spies? WUT?
And wolves are cunning, as feth. Jesus even the Codex says so, someone ever read it?
Yes, they're very (VERY) superstitious, you know Allfather and all.
Again, codex.

Superstition in the time of the Great Crusade makes them heretics like Lorgar and his Word Bearers, except even worse since they worship "pagan" entities. And yes, being wild and untamed alcoholic brawlers totally makes you a subtle diplomat and politician. While being 8-9" tall and covered in animal parts and having a habit of barking at people (including Primarchs) and wet-leopard growling.

DarthMarko wrote:
Like your comments....
If you don't like it leave it, stop crapping....Damn
And ty, my next book - "Brothers of the Snake"...

Yes, please stop discussing pertinent things to the topic of a discussion thread on a discussion forum, because it wobbles my world view and I don't like that.

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

The Codex talks about army X background. Yes, it has bias (only their victories? Really?!), but if a codex says: "a Fenrisian is more tough that your average Imperium citizens" taking what is fenris (you know, that planet where wolves are the size of an APC...) I believe it. Like I believe that Ultras are the average marine, like I believe that Blood Angels are among the most loyal chapter. Evah. Like I believe that Eldar are dic... ehm very widsom people.

Really... if you don't take the Codices word for truth, than there is nothing in the 40k fluff that is correct. Sorry pal, nope.

You can't cherry pick, if you just take everything the fluff says at face value, then the Ultras are the standard Wolves should be trying to emulate and consider Guilliman their spiritual liege, and the Eldar are not people at all, but inscrutable and utterly inhuman aliens that will not blink an eye to condemn all of humanity to ruin.

As for Kelly, he has his own issues too, like Vect being almost as much of a overly perfect super character like Draigo. What makes Space Wolves stand out among these equally terrible examples of writing is that they are written about as if the entire Chapter/Legion are flawless paragons of everything at everything.

I think you can cherry pick because GW is inconsistent with the background over the years, like wildly inconsistent. Also some of the authors are wtf terrible and their work deserves to be ignored. Because of the inconsistency you have to pick some things over others so choose the stories and events that are reasonably coherent and not the delusions of an angst ridden 12 year old boy.

No matter what army you like GW will eventually write some crap about it, the SW have more than their fair share.

For newer players there is a very funny but minor oddity about Ragnar Blackmane in the 2nd edition codex, the eavy metal painters made him a blonde, so lately he has dyed his hair black.

I guess I dislike them because they seem....bland and hypocritical to me. They're dwarves/vikings in space, and I've never liked that sort of character in the least bit, and because it's 40k, this trait is taken OTT and becomes irritating to me.

 Just Dave wrote:
I'm not claiming to be anything similar to a Space Wolf - not least because I'm only 6" and clean-shaven

 Gabrial Seth wrote:
Now i am no where near tall enough for any of these i am 6'0 and clean shaven

What just happened?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:
In regards to the larger topic, going off Just Dave's post, something I've noticed is that many of the SW's fans seem to identify with, or want to identify, very heavily with the SW's, see part of themselves in them. Lots of times I find this rather humorous (no offense intended to anyone) but you usually don't see quite the same thing with many other factions. For instance, I don't really identify or see part of myself in the DKoK or the Iron Warriors.

I haven't really noticed that to be honest, not counting their teenage fans ("WOOT THEY DRINK PARTY AND feth gak UP"). But in terms of more srs bsns, mature feelings of relation like JustDave, I don't see it too often.

As for me, part of the reason I got into the Necrons was because of how thoroughly un-relatable they were. But then the Thousand Sons and Magnus became my favorite Legion because of how much I related to the big cyclopean guy.

 PunkNeverDie110 wrote:

 Gabrial Seth wrote:
You mean the imperial fist, the ones that defended the palace agianst the IW and other legions all you are showing is a bias leaning towards SW. Dark Angel's don't have a flaw man, sure the heresy thing but its not a flaw in the sense that their gene-seed is corrupt, the Ultramarines don't deserve all the hate and backlash sure they are the pretty-boys of 40k but every game has to have them.

I don't understand your post, seriously o_o.
Could you explain, please?

You said the imps fist have lost every battle since the HH but fluff wise they saved the imperium I don't understand why the IF where mentioned to begin with.

I find the chapters with genuine flaws (such as the Blood Angels) or at least a quiet sense of professionalism (such as the Raven Guard) to be more compelling than the ones with crazy-awesome bro-fisting "We're drunk werewolves!" flaws.

But different strokes. It's a big universe.