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Firefly-Chibified Raider Stretch Goal

Is it just me, or is this campaign kind of crawling? Is it due to the lower price of the pledge? Are the stretch goals spaced too far apart? Does Soda Pop need to realize that fans won't toss money at them nearly as much for things that aren't Super Dungeon?

Or perhaps I'm just imagining things, but I do feel this is the least exciting Kickstarter campaign (in terms of freebies and add-ons) that I have backed.

 The Fragile Breath wrote:
Does Soda Pop need to realize that fans won't toss money at them nearly as much for things that aren't Super Dungeon?

For SPM, non-SDE content is very fetch.

 The Fragile Breath wrote:
Is it just me, or is this campaign kind of crawling? Is it due to the lower price of the pledge? Are the stretch goals spaced too far apart? Does Soda Pop need to realize that fans won't toss money at them nearly as much for things that aren't Super Dungeon?

Or perhaps I'm just imagining things, but I do feel this is the least exciting Kickstarter campaign (in terms of freebies and add-ons) that I have backed.

Clockwork cove has tons of underground systems which goblins and gnomes use to transport materials from the dwarven mines. Often this resuls in high stakes train robberies.

Make a bunch of gnome and goblin 'raiders' and make a bunch of gnome and goblin 'automotons'. Now you have a fun SDE-crossoverable theme, same gameplay and a bunch of interesting models and a reason to buy 'BOTH'. Lots of companies when doing a lower boxed set, do 'doubles' so you could buy the goblin raiders with the gnome automotons, or the gnome raiders with the goblin automotons, or both for 100$.

But instead, they need boobnuns, boobarians and slutty cowgirls to alienate females, future guns to alienate SDE/Dungeon collectors, and shallow gameplay with flawed dice mechanics to alienate boardgamers who want a good game.

Masmorra made it look so easy I suppose SPM didn't feel like they needed to try this time? At least it wasn't Bunnies vs Zombies again...

nkelsch wrote:
At least it wasn't Bunnies vs Zombies again...

Yeah, that went over like a lead balloon. Such ugly art direction.

 The Fragile Breath wrote:
Is it just me, or is this campaign kind of crawling? Is it due to the lower price of the pledge? Are the stretch goals spaced too far apart? Does Soda Pop need to realize that fans won't toss money at them nearly as much for things that aren't Super Dungeon?

Or perhaps I'm just imagining things, but I do feel this is the least exciting Kickstarter campaign (in terms of freebies and add-ons) that I have backed.

It sounds like their goal for this Kickstarter was expected to be a lot smaller than their previous kickstarters. The lower-cost pledges also mean that the amount of money gained would be a lot less compared to their other Kickstarters.

According to SPM, it sounds like things are going fairly well (at least for the first couple of days):
"Here's a fun fact we discovered. Today is day 3 of the campaign. (Settle down, that's not the fact.) Most Kickstarters have a huge surge of backers on day 1, tons on day 2, then a huge drop off in day 3. Well, we had a drop off but not a big one. Our day 3 backer total is higher than any other campaign we've run! That's right, we even beat both Super Dungeon Kickstarters' day 3 backer numbers. WOW!"

"This Kickstarter is moving much differently than we had anticipated. It's got us scrambling a bit as we readjust our trajectory, so we don't run out of stretch goals too early and can maintain good pacing."

The Fragile Breath wrote:Is it just me, or is this campaign kind of crawling? Is it due to the lower price of the pledge? Are the stretch goals spaced too far apart? Does Soda Pop need to realize that fans won't toss money at them nearly as much for things that aren't Super Dungeon?

Or perhaps I'm just imagining things, but I do feel this is the least exciting Kickstarter campaign (in terms of freebies and add-ons) that I have backed.

It's a small campaign and is priced as such. Its only 16 days, and a very cheap buy in - so I don't think anyone was expecting this one to be a million dollar stretch goal bonanza, SPM said early on that they actually had to space out the stretch goals more because the first few days did much better than anticipated. So I imagine (like the SDE campaigns before) they have a set amount of stretch goals that they will adjust as needed to make sure things get hit throughout the campaign. If it feels a little dull atm I'd say that's because we've had a few "double robot, plastic tokens, and card sleeve" goals that aren't the most exciting thing in the world.

nkelsch wrote:

 The Fragile Breath wrote:
Is it just me, or is this campaign kind of crawling? Is it due to the lower price of the pledge? Are the stretch goals spaced too far apart? Does Soda Pop need to realize that fans won't toss money at them nearly as much for things that aren't Super Dungeon?

Or perhaps I'm just imagining things, but I do feel this is the least exciting Kickstarter campaign (in terms of freebies and add-ons) that I have backed.

Clockwork cove has tons of underground systems which goblins and gnomes use to transport materials from the dwarven mines. Often this resuls in high stakes train robberies.

Make a bunch of gnome and goblin 'raiders' and make a bunch of gnome and goblin 'automotons'. Now you have a fun SDE-crossoverable theme, same gameplay and a bunch of interesting models and a reason to buy 'BOTH'. Lots of companies when doing a lower boxed set, do 'doubles' so you could buy the goblin raiders with the gnome automotons, or the gnome raiders with the goblin automotons, or both for 100$.

But instead, they need boobnuns, boobarians and slutty cowgirls to alienate females, future guns to alienate SDE/Dungeon collectors, and shallow gameplay with flawed dice mechanics to alienate boardgamers who want a good game.

Masmorra made it look so easy I suppose SPM didn't feel like they needed to try this time? At least it wasn't Bunnies vs Zombies again...

Maybe they want to have more IP than just SDE, not everything needs to be SDE-related. Maybe they are trying to attract people that aren't interested in the SDE them? The barbarian is boobalicious sure - but the nun seems fine to me, and who said the cowgirls were slutty? And I don't see how the dice mechanics can be flawed when they are literally the game of poker.

I pledged in their past campaigns, only to find I could purchase the stuff cheaper on miniature market at the same time backers got their items. Oh, and they don't do exclusives, so you can wait to see if the game is worth it and not miss out on anything. Seems to me like it is smart to wait with spm.

Schmapdi wrote:
And I don't see how the dice mechanics can be flawed when they are literally the game of poker.

Because the odds are wrong, and their 'straight' is harder to get than a full house and 4 of a kind. It should have been a royal flush as it would have matched the odds pyramid.

Most poker dice are 9-10-J-Q-K-A which leaves a difference between straight and flush. The wilds throw it all off making 3/4/5 of a kind much more common, and lack of 9 makes it technically that there would be no such thing as a straight, only a royal flush.

Poker dice with wilds instead of 9 have some messed up odds compared to poker dice and poker in general. The community has solved the issue for them by eliminating straight and adding royal flush, but SPM is non-receptive to feedback it seems and only begrudgingly listens when it becomes deafening feedback.


Also...
How many people backed Masmorra with the 'at least if the game sucks, I have cool dungeon or AQ models out of it'
How many people backed NAS with the 'at least if the game sucks, I have cool dungeon or SDE models out of it'

So if they want to diversify themes, fine... but clearly that isn't working out for them due to them not being able to actually produce quality rules. If you can't make good rules or people distrust you for rules, you can at least make models people want, which is their SDE/dungeon themes.

nkelsch wrote:

How many people backed Masmorra with the 'at least if the game sucks, I have cool dungeon or AQ models out of it'
How many people backed NAS with the 'at least if the game sucks, I have cool dungeon or SDE models out of it'

Yeah, I did both of those, which is another reason why I'm rethinking my pledge here. I have no use for chibi space western. I don't know, I'll probably reevaluate at the end of the campaign, but after Arcadia Quest, Masmorra, and now Rum and Bones happening at the same time, this one just feels "meh".

...don't forget Dark Souls next week to add to the mess.

My main purpose in this one is chibi Shadows of Brimstone. Heck, you can make your character get SD'ed as a roll on the mutation chart.

At the very least I'll be putting a buck in on this one and wait and see how it all unfolds. The game itself really hasn't grabbed me yet.

Funny enough both kids pointed out 999's reference right away. What a pair of nerds...

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
...don't forget Dark Souls next week to add to the mess.

Indeed. 5 more days!

Sitting RRI out, though.

 455_PWR wrote:
I pledged in their past campaigns, only to find I could purchase the stuff cheaper on miniature market at the same time backers got their items. Oh, and they don't do exclusives, so you can wait to see if the game is worth it and not miss out on anything. Seems to me like it is smart to wait with spm.

Yeah, if you are only interested in just the core game and don't want all the stretch goals, Miniature Market and other discount stores will be cheaper than supporting the Kickstarter. If you plan on purchasing everything that is released, the Kickstarter is still a greater savings than individually purchasing the products at retail.

nkelsch wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
And I don't see how the dice mechanics can be flawed when they are literally the game of poker.

Because the odds are wrong, and their 'straight' is harder to get than a full house and 4 of a kind. It should have been a royal flush as it would have matched the odds pyramid.

Most poker dice are 9-10-J-Q-K-A which leaves a difference between straight and flush. The wilds throw it all off making 3/4/5 of a kind much more common, and lack of 9 makes it technically that there would be no such thing as a straight, only a royal flush.

According to the beta rulebook, SPM appears to agree with you that their version of a "straight" is indeed harder to get than a full house and their ranking rules about the dice follows with that logic. A reply to KS backer about the dice rolls:

"According the the numbers and research we've run so far, a four of a kind is harder to roll than a straight." - SPM

I have not look at the probabilities myself though. Can you provide a link or show me how you came up with their rankings of the type of dice rolls is based on faulty probabilities? A royal flush can be consider a straight, but a straight is not necessarily a royal flush. And since this is "poker" dices that does not have different suites, I prefer them calling it a straight rather than a royal flush.

 Dentry wrote:
Still not seeing any Trigun characters. No Nicholas, Milly, or Vash! What's up with that?

Maybe SPM/ND doesn't want to infringe on another company's IP or received a C&D at some time and doesn't want to deal with another one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Fragile Breath wrote:
Is it just me, or is this campaign kind of crawling?

Well, Ghostbusters 2 and Rum and Bones 2 are currently funding. You know how people keep saying they want original content but buy more of the same.

 akai wrote:


"According the the numbers and research we've run so far, a four of a kind is harder to roll than a straight." - SPM

I have not look at the probabilities myself though. Can you provide a link or show me how you came up with their rankings of the type of dice rolls is based on faulty probabilities? A royal flush can be consider a straight, but a straight is not necessarily a royal flush. And since this is "poker" dices that does not have different suites, I prefer them calling it a straight rather than a royal flush.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1556010/kickstarter-rulesgameplay-discussion/page/2

Wilds in general make it much easier to get 'of a kinds' and drastically reduces full houses, and the straights which become very small due to the lack of chances to make them.

But when you boil it down, the dice mechanic is basically trash because it literally doesn't matter what you role at this point. They could be simple pips and 'whomever rolls higher wins' as the hands and ranks matching the high card. It is pretty shallow of a mechanic, and adds a layer for people who may not be poker aware.

Some people have suggested dumping the dice and simply playing hands of 5-card draw with pinochle cards. Re-rolls are draws, and allow people to bet and bluff. Makes combat have value and a point outside the rolls. Battle Poker instead of Battle Yahtzee.

Anyways... For a company which doesn't have a good rep for rules, and has lots of documented rule issues, and has a fetish for unique dice mechanics, it just seems odd to abandon their wheelhouse for model theme when that is what they are known for. SoB is a great game, but western/steampunk games are not quite as common as the dungeon genre.

When CMoN makes ZombicideBP: Arcadia Overrun, and re-skins Z:BP with chibi zombies and heroes, they will make 2 million dollars for virtually no work. People like board games like they like their movies, all in a coherent universe with cross-compatibility.

nkelsch wrote:

 akai wrote:


"According the the numbers and research we've run so far, a four of a kind is harder to roll than a straight." - SPM

I have not look at the probabilities myself though. Can you provide a link or show me how you came up with their rankings of the type of dice rolls is based on faulty probabilities? A royal flush can be consider a straight, but a straight is not necessarily a royal flush. And since this is "poker" dices that does not have different suites, I prefer them calling it a straight rather than a royal flush.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1556010/kickstarter-rulesgameplay-discussion/page/2

Wilds in general make it much easier to get 'of a kinds' and drastically reduces full houses, and the straights which become very small due to the lack of chances to make them.

But when you boil it down, the dice mechanic is basically trash because it literally doesn't matter what you role at this point. They could be simple pips and 'whomever rolls higher wins' as the hands and ranks matching the high card. It is pretty shallow of a mechanic, and adds a layer for people who may not be poker aware.

Some people have suggested dumping the dice and simply playing hands of 5-card draw with pinochle cards. Re-rolls are draws, and allow people to bet and bluff. Makes combat have value and a point outside the rolls. Battle Poker instead of Battle Yahtzee.

Thanks for the link, I will have to look through it more carefully. So far I see lots of "different rankings" and not much consensus (even you did make a mistake on what you wrote about SPM rankings). Calling the dice mechanic trash is pretty harsh/exaggerated. You are wrong that what you roll does not matter: It literally does matter what you role still. They have a rankings chart to tell players what "poker dice hand" is the best and the worst in their game.

I don't really see a problem with this Kickstarter. The concept and theme of the game seem fine; I particularly like the $50 price point and the aim for simple quick play style matches. Not to say that invalidates the criticisms levied against SPM's rules writin' prowess, but aside from that caveat and general chibi/ks saturation I think the campaign is pretty well setup.

And, as 455_PWR points out, you can certainly grab things with a discount at retail but that doesn't necessarily include the KD stretch goals and extras.

ced1106 wrote:

 Dentry wrote:
Still not seeing any Trigun characters. No Nicholas, Milly, or Vash! What's up with that?

Maybe SPM/ND doesn't want to infringe on another company's IP or received a C&D at some time and doesn't want to deal with another one.

Right. That's not such an issue when it's not a 1:1 copy, but instead some kind of homage or influenced-by type thing.

New stretch goal revealed (Trigun-chibified):


About 4 days left before the campaign ends: For $50 pledge you would get bonus loot that would make at least $100 savings (rough estimate) if you intend to purchase everything at retail release (this takes into account 20% discount from certain online stores).

In total, there are 30 Unique Miniature Sculpts revealed in the Kickstarter. 2 are still locked and 6 of them are optional purchases. As of this post, $50 pledge for core game gets 46 miniatures total. $100 dollar to include the 2 add-on boxes makes it 62 miniatures total. If all the revealed Stretch Goals (250K) is reached, that would be 69 miniatures total.

I'm betting there will be one or two more stretch goals that are met on the last day.

I'm pretty pleased with my pledge (though I'll be selling off all the "extra" bots).

More games need to be this small and self-contained. It's nice to look forward to something and not have to worry about "god what am I going to do with 250 more minis."

Nice Plant there.

Will there be a Gung-ho set? I could use a Gale.

Man, they're really playing up the dated references, here.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Man, they're really playing up the dated references, here.

Thanks. I'm gonna have to start wearing my pants up to my armpits now.

But the most recent sci-fi cowboy reference I remember is Cowboys vs Aliens. Before that it would probably be Firefly.

48 hour mark about to hit, Canton Cobb unlocked and 3 more stretch goals + KS backer gift were reviewed. The most interesting reveal was the Chibified Boba Fett.

We wound up 1-2 heroes short of what I would have expected - but overall - a pretty nice little campaign. Especially since the last 3 heroes were such awesome ones.

Lotta stuff for $100 too.

Yeah, $50 pledge will get you around ~$150 free stuff (taking into consideration discount from some online stores. Good deal if you plan on wanting everything. For those only want the core game and maybe one ore two miniatures, waiting for retail release likely better for them.

Only Chuy left to unlock...

$100 pledge = 69 miniatures total with 31 unique sculpts (70 miniatures total with 32 unique sculpts if everything gets unlocked).

$50 Pledge Core Components (include Bonus Loot)


Bonus Loot, so far:


$25 Expansion 1 Add-On


$25 Expansion 2 Add-On


Edit: Update with Bonus Loot images and SR milestones

So are there no exclusives/content not in the retail box? Or are the new raiders going to be sold separately at retail?

from the sound of it the additional poses for the lawbots etc will make it into the retail boxes

but the aditional minis will be sold separately (either general retail or via the soda pop store)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
from the sound of it the additional poses for the lawbots etc will make it into the retail boxes

but the aditional minis will be sold separately (either general retail or via the soda pop store)

Cool deal, so worth it for the base pledge at least. Thanks!

Yes, Sodapop has never released a single Kickstarter-exclusive item ever. Everything is available to order from their store, just usually at significantly higher prices than Kickstarter ones (e.g. $13 for a single boardgame plastic character).

The base pledge is a very steep discount, the expansions are an unknown discount (I'd say probably at least 25% more expensive at RRP, but you might be able to get a better discount from 3rd parties)/

Rail Raiders KS is done. The base pledge at closing:



Not a bad deal at all. Also left us this tidbit:



So... Karate Fight related or brand new game?