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I thought there was a single super detachment. couldn't you take it twice? or is it "detachment" dependent?

 Desubot wrote:
I thought there was a single super detachment. couldn't you take it twice? or is it "detachment" dependent?

Detachment dependent, sadly. If they just fixed it to army-wide, it would be fine.

Alright, so here's the part one of the basic layout I have for my dual Minotaurs/Carcharodons list. First part is a Carcharodon Battalion Detachment.

HQ - 377
Tyberos
Terminator Librarian
. Storm Shield, Force Sword, Veil Of Time

Troops - 220
x5 Scouts
. 5 Combat Blades
x5 Scouts
. 5 Combat Blades
x5 Scouts
. 5 Combat Blades
x5 Scouts
. 5 Combat Blades

Fast Attack - 597
x5 Bikers
. 3 Chainswords, 2 Melta Guns
x5 Bikers
. 3 Chainswords, 2 Melta Guns
x5 Bikers
. 3 Chainswords, 2 Melta Guns

That's a total of 1194 poionts, which is a little over half of the 2000 standard points people are starting to do now. Then the Minotaur half, which is a Vanguard detachment.

HQ
Asterion

Elites - 594
x5 Assault Terminators
. 3 TH/SS, 2 LC
x5 Assault Terminators
. 3 TH/SS, 2 LC
x1 Biker Apothecary

Basic gist is right there. Everyone gets in as close as possible t1, with the Scouts being spread out to act as meat shields. Then the Bikers, Terminators, and HQ's should be safe to charge in. Thoughts on that? It almost feels worth just going for Minotaurs in general, but Tyberos +1S bubble is frickin excellent on Bikers.

Remember the apothecary can only heal or revive members of his own chapter so that apothecary won't be aiding any of the carcharodons.

Same goes for Librarian Powers, you also get another power with him too.

Personally i'd choose between the sharks or the Minotaurs, if you're going sharks keep the librarian for Veil of Time to guaruntee more charges, if you're going Minotaurs you'll be less effective when you hit the charge but more likely in general to manage them.

Either way you may as well add in a cheap inquisitor psyker for terrify which i think will be a real boon to imperium assault armies, great for letting you bypass the overwatch from units with lots of flamers in particular, plus having 3 HQ's, 3 troops and 3 of anything else means you're getting anoher command point, so if you're already doing the last 2 paying 55 points minimum for a HQ is not a big issue

I don't know if they're good or not, but is it correct that Land Speeder Storms are only available to vanilla marines? Looking at the Index DA, BA, SW and the rest can't take them.
I was considering one to ferry about a squad of sniper Scouts for my BA.

craggy wrote:
I don't know if they're good or not, but is it correct that Land Speeder Storms are only available to vanilla marines? Looking at the Index DA, BA, SW and the rest can't take them.
I was considering one to ferry about a squad of sniper Scouts for my BA.

That's how it's always been. Otherwise Vanilla Marines miss out on tools that make them SLIGHTLY different.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

craggy wrote:
I don't know if they're good or not, but is it correct that Land Speeder Storms are only available to vanilla marines? Looking at the Index DA, BA, SW and the rest can't take them.
I was considering one to ferry about a squad of sniper Scouts for my BA.

That's how it's always been. Otherwise Vanilla Marines miss out on tools that make them SLIGHTLY different.

Aww. :( I've been out of the loop for a while. Still, I suppose I could always go Keyword Imperium and include one. Not like the Scouts are supposed to be anywhere near close enough to anyone else to get buffs.

There isn't a lot of point ferrying snipers around anyway is there? They'd be happier in a bunker, and everyone is allowed in one of those.

Shotgun or combat knife scouts do benefit from the storm. A heavy flamer and 10 S5 shots up close is respectable firepower - though perhaps not all that spectacular for the price.

keep in mind we can't (unless I'm missing something) fire out of rhinos anymore. So a land speeder storm, if you're willing to take an accuracy hit, could actually be an intreasting pick for sniper scouts.

Can anyone gimme advise on what secondary HQ to pick up to support my melee focused carcharodons, i already have a Chaplain Dread and am not sure what to supplement it with.

I kind of want a Librarian but he looks so vulnerable without Terminator armour at which point he gets crazy expensive, and he doesn't give rerolls and is a bit mediocre himself at actually fighting.

I already have a Chaplain dread so having a standard chaplain feels odd but a captain doesn't do the job of assisting melee units quite as well.

Lastly i'm thinking of an inquisitor, just because they're cheap and the psychic powers+deny the witch seems useful but it's not particularly useful

Either Tyberos or a Librarian. Librarian can use Veil Of Time and Tyberos increases damage potential against T4, T5, and T8 significantly.

See i am contemplating Tyberos since it IS a Carcharodons army, but he's not cheap then i've got around 400 points in just a couple of HQ's

thoughts on the helios raider?

i think this thing looks pretty good for about 350

craggy wrote:
I don't know if they're good or not, but is it correct that Land Speeder Storms are only available to vanilla marines? Looking at the Index DA, BA, SW and the rest can't take them.
I was considering one to ferry about a squad of sniper Scouts for my BA.

You can still do it - sort of.

Take general sniper Scouts and a general Speeder - neither can have BlOOD ANGELS Keyword but otherwise work as normal, note that your BlOOD ANGEL Scouts (if you have them) can;t get in the speeder though.

GAdvance wrote:
Can anyone gimme advise on what secondary HQ to pick up to support my melee focused carcharodons, i already have a Chaplain Dread and am not sure what to supplement it with.

I kind of want a Librarian but he looks so vulnerable without Terminator armour at which point he gets crazy expensive, and he doesn't give rerolls and is a bit mediocre himself at actually fighting.

I already have a Chaplain dread so having a standard chaplain feels odd but a captain doesn't do the job of assisting melee units quite as well.

Lastly i'm thinking of an inquisitor, just because they're cheap and the psychic powers+deny the witch seems useful but it's not particularly useful

The Inquisition power that makes people unable to overwatch is actually pretty good.

So is the Librarian's null zone.

In general both of them are pretty durable to shooting and assault as long as you keep other guys around them.

Shameless plug for some tactical help

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/730957.page

Building my first ever list and could really use some SM veterans help to make the army viable.

Do not currently own any models so it will be a decent investment into 40k!

Where are people standing when it comes to Dreads nowadays? I am building a list at the moment and have roughly 70p to spare for weapons loadout. Two twin auto cannons for an improved version of the old rifleman-dread or multi melta and a close combat weapon to have a dual role of midfield anti tank and punching tough things in the face?

i don't think the multimelta suits the Dread, it's one shot at BS 4+ most of the time.

Agusto wrote:Where are people standing when it comes to Dreads nowadays? I am building a list at the moment and have roughly 70p to spare for weapons loadout. Two twin auto cannons for an improved version of the old rifleman-dread or multi melta and a close combat weapon to have a dual role of midfield anti tank and punching tough things in the face?

Cpt. Icanus wrote:i don't think the multimelta suits the Dread, it's one shot at BS 4+ most of the time.

Some dreads start at BS 2+, so the -1 for moving and shooting a heavy only puts them at a 3+. Also, single shot guns can be helped out more with a command point. Also if you are going to be near someone with a buff bubble.

It seems like CC is on the rise, so I’m going to avoid the pure gun dreads personally. The fist is nice to have if you need to crump some heads. If you are going to be pushing forward aggressively, the AsC seems to be in a good spot. For sitting back as backfield support, any of the long range options seem decent, depending what your list needs.

But I would only take that fist off if you already have ample screening units a/o another respectable countercharge unit.

Yes, I am running it as a Ven. Dread. So a 3+ after moving and I am more and more leaning towards (keeping) the CC weapon just to have it like a defensive midfielder. A MM and a CC weapon (with a heavy flamer) gives it a large bubble of "you don't want to be here" that is nice

Hey guys, I haven't played 40k since the 90s and I'm kind of tempted to get back into it with an Imperial Fist army.

Is it possible to do an IF army that exemplifies the sheer tenacity and stubbornness of the Legion?

I'd love to build an army makes the opponent work hard for every single model that gets removed. And army that strikes like the fist of an angry emperor when it finally hits.

I'm a fan of a tacs, termi's, dreads, tanks and I love the new centurions. Not so much a fan of bikes, flyers, jump packers and hovercraft.

Unfortunately, from what I gather our local meta is fairly competitive. Ie. people don't consider a game successful until an opponent whines about how unfun it was. Stuff like knights in 1k games and such is not uncommon.

Do space marines currently have synergies that let me build something that survives in my current meta while giving me something I enjoy thematically?

I'm perfectly happy accepting a lower win rate in exchange for more draws and fewer losses. I always enjoyed a tightly fought draw.

If you want to hold the damn line then I'd say squads of Tactical Marines with Apothecaries, Ancients and maybe Chaplains backing them up could be stupidly resilient, especially if you can get cover for your tacticals.

I'd have a rough focus on tacs, devs and centurion devs

So I largely play Grey Knights for my power armor fix, but I wanted to add a Spearhead Detachment to my army and use Centurion Devastators as my sole source of ranged anti-tank.

How many would you guys recommend taking for a competitive TAC list? Browsing 1d4chan, they said just 1 unit, but that seems like way too low volume of fire (you'd take ~3 turns to kill a single Knight or a Raptor, by my math with just the Devastators).

The rest of the army I'm imagining is typical Grey Knight stuff to handle melee. Dreadknights, Paladins, Terminators e.t.c. 2,000 point lists.

So the Predators statline has a typo in it right?

Rhino (previously 11/11/10, 3 HP)
T7, 10 Wounds, 3+ save.

Razorback (previously 11/11/10, 3 HP)
T7, 10 Wounds, 3+ save.

Whirlwind (previously 11/11/10, 3 HP)
T7, 11 Wounds, 3+ save.

Stalker (previously 12/12/10, 3 HP)
T8, 11 Wounds, 3+ save.

Hunter (previously 12/12/10, 3 HP)
T8, 11 Wounds, 3+ save.

Vindicator (previously 13/11/10, 3 HP)
T8, 11 Wounds, 3+ save.

Predator (previously 13/11/10, 3 HP)
...T7..., 11 wounds, 3+ save.

- Why on earth does the Predator have the same defensive statline as the Whirlwind?
- Why does the Vindicator, Stalker and Hunter have T8 while the Predator has T7?
- Why can you (almost) buy 2 Twin-Las Razorbacks for the same price as one Twinlas+Lassponsons Predator, for similar firepower but 20 T7 wounds vs 11 T7 wounds?

Surely the Predator should have T8? Especially given that the cheapest version of it costs 171 pts, but it can go beyond 200 pts. For 11 T7 wounds....
Compare to the Vindicator which is 160 pts and T8.
T8 would also differentiate the Predator from the transports, and not make two Razorbacks a no-brainer over a single Predator Annihlator.

It's possible it's a typo, but if not I can only imagine they found the t8 pred to be too strong in the game itself. There is significantly more firepower on a pred than a to a WW or Stalker, and perhaps they wanted more room between the stat lines of the pred and land raiders.

Either way i don't see it as a problem, as predators are quite good as it is.

jcd386 wrote:
There is significantly more firepower on a pred than a to a WW or Stalker

Balanced out by the fact that the Predator also costs alot more poiints.

 MinscS2 wrote:
So the Predators statline has a typo in it right?

Rhino (previously 11/11/10, 3 HP)
T7, 10 Wounds, 3+ save.

Razorback (previously 11/11/10, 3 HP)
T7, 10 Wounds, 3+ save.

Whirlwind (previously 11/11/10, 3 HP)
T7, 11 Wounds, 3+ save.

Stalker (previously 12/12/10, 3 HP)
T8, 11 Wounds, 3+ save.

Hunter (previously 12/12/10, 3 HP)
T8, 11 Wounds, 3+ save.

Predator (previously 13/11/10, 3 HP)
...T7, 11 wounds, 3+ save.

- Why on earth does the Predator have the same defensive statline as the Whirlwind?
- Why does the Stalker and Hunter have T8 while the Predator has T7?
- Why can you (almost) buy 2 Twin-Las Razorbacks for the same price as one Twinlas+Lassponsons Predator, for similar firepower but 20 T7 wounds vs 11 T7 wounds?

Surely the Predator should have T8? Especially given that the cheapest version of it costs 171 pts, but it can go beyond 200 pts. For 11 T7 wounds....

Doesn't seem to be a typo. FAQ got released today and didn't address this yet

It's imho a poor decision if it's intentional, no reason a predator should be weaker than a vindicator

GAdvance wrote:
It's imho a poor decision if it's intentional, no reason a predator should be weaker than a vindicator

Good point, totally missed the Vindicator in my comparison (added now).
I'm fairly convinced that T7 is a typo and that the Pred is supposed to be T8.

As for it not being in the latest errata; given the amount of errors that they needed to fix so soon, it's obvious that GW makes mistakes, and I wouldn't be surprised if they forgot/missed the Predators T7.

The Stalker and Hunter, like the Vindicator, are modeled with heavier side armor, so I think the T8 is to represent that.