Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!

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**Blackie**

Geemoney wrote:
I don't see how 400 points for the Big Mek stompa is overpriced when Imperial Knights are 375 - 425. I get they have half the hull points but they have better shooting, higher initiative, and invul save. And don't get me started on Wraith Knights....

I think 400 points is more or less a fair point cost, anything more than that and they will not see play anymore.

Because in GW eyes humans are the heroes and armies like orks only sparring partners that are not suppose to be succesful. Eldar have their moment now, like necrons a few years a go, but SM will always be among top 2-3. For GW a stompa should cost 770 points, and an army that is supposed to be an horde doesn't have a formation that spam free vehicles. But SM, an army that should be composed by elites, have free vehicles so they can easily outnumber armies like orks when it should happen the opposite. I don't care if we don't get a super solid codex, I love orks and 40k for what they are, but you shouldn't be surprised if they consider that stompa a mistake and overpriced.

**NewTruthNeomaxim**

I will say I care if Orks get a strong Codex, because I sincerely want every Codex in the game to be strong. I LOATHE a competitive scene dominated by 3-4 armies, and would really enjoy actually seeing a Dark Eldar (for example) army, once in a while... and no... no just a formation of them borrowed by their Eldar cousins. :-p

**PipeAlley**

Eh, just make the Gorkanaught and Morkanaughts Super Heavies for their current point cost and call it a day.

Also I changed my list based on feedback from y'all:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/718325.page#9207568

**JimOnMars**

PipeAlley wrote:
Eh, just make the Gorkanaught and Morkanaughts Super Heavies for their current point cost and call it a day.

Also I changed my list based on feedback from y'all:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/718325.page#9207568

Not sure about the looted wagons + rokkits. A little More than the trukks for only 1 point better armor and 1 rokkit hit per turn, but looses obsec.

I'm wondering about putting max grots on the lobbas with a mek, an having them run across the board for a lot of t7 objective camping fun. only shoot the lobbas when they get somewhere good.

**PipeAlley**

JimOnMars wrote:
PipeAlley wrote:
Eh, just make the Gorkanaught and Morkanaughts Super Heavies for their current point cost and call it a day.

Also I changed my list based on feedback from y'all:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/718325.page#9207568

Not sure about the looted wagons + rokkits. A little More than the trukks for only 1 point better armor and 1 rokkit hit per turn, but looses obsec.

I'm wondering about putting max grots on the lobbas with a mek, an having them run across the board for a lot of t7 objective camping fun. only shoot the lobbas when they get somewhere good.

So in that case you could lead with 3 grots, then the Lobba, then the last grot then finally the mek. Saves for the most part would be unnecessary, T7 protects them well. Honestly though with this list, the MAWB and boyz will be taking/contesting their objectives so the Lobbas just need to squat on yours. I'm not concerned about losing ObSec on the Wagons, they are disposable. The Wagons also have a Str 8 Ram with RR.

**tag8833**

I won an Oldhammer Tourney Today with Ork Trukk Rush.

My list:

Spoiler:

Round 1:

Spoiler:

Round 2:

Spoiler:

I faced an IG list. Pask punisher + demolisher buddy. Eradicator, 4 Taurox with vets inside (3 special weapons each), Saint Celestein, and another squad of vets with cammo in ruins with an Autocannon, and most frightening, 2 wyverns. The mission was emperor's will.

I was pretty sure I had this one as soon as I won the roll to go 1st. I deployed agressively, and he counter deployed me well. So my lootas primarily had to move, and snap shooting they only immobilized one Taurox. All the rest of my trukks moved foward 24". His Turn 1 was a bloodbath. All 4 trukks with boyz died to basically the 1st thing that shot at them with 3 of the 4 exploding. My warlord was left with 2 boyz and a Wounded nob, and they ran away (stupid mob rule). One boyz squad was reduced to only 2 boyz and no nob, but they didn't run. My Luckystick boss failed his pinning check and mob rule didn't save him. He did tank most everything, but being pinned was awful. My last squad of boyz was reduced to 2 boyz and a nob. Ug. Bad turn. To top it all off Celestein managed to charge and kill my warlord. My turn 2, I did what I could. My Manz were my only intact unit, and so they killed pask and the demolisher. My tankbustas and lootas popped 2 Tauroxes, and my lobbas kill one squad of vets that came out. My 2 boyz and nob were just enough to assault and kill the vets in the ruins, but I lost the boyz doing it. On his turn Celestien killed the lobbas. The remaining Tauroxes and vets, and russ put all of their firepower into my lucky stikk boss's unit reducing it to the Boss, and a wounded nob. I had 2 boyz from one squad and a nob from another and my 3 buggies went after the wyvrens. Shaking 1, but not killing any. My lootas killed a taurox. My boss joined some tankbuster to kill a unit of vets. My Manz killed the final taurox, and my last squad of tankbustas took the turret off of the Eradicator.

Celestien tried to multi-assault the lootas, but I overwatched both of her guardians to death, so she only got 1 squad. The wyverns, and remaining vets went after the Manz, and left them with 2 wounded models. The game was over at this point (bottom of 3), but my opponent didn't really accept that. My Warboss cleaned up the vets. the Manz cleaned up the Wyverns. All he had left was celestein. My buggies, and 3 remaining trukks (one containing a wounded nob) headed back to my objective, and menaced celestein a bit. Celestein killed the last of the lootas. Turn 5, I turbo-boosed a buggy, and 2 trukks including the one with the ob sec nob onto my objective. Celestein killed the trukk and the nob inside it. Game went on. I turbo boosted another trukk on the the objective. Celestein killed a trukk. Game went on. I put my last trukk on the objective. Celestein killed a warbuggy. So my objective was contested by a buggy and a trukk. His objective was mine. I won.

Game 3:

Spoiler:

I'm at top table playing an eclectic space wolf list. Honestly I didn't think his list was very good, and expected it to be an easy game. He had Cypher. A wolflord with runic armor. 3 units of Grey hunters all in pods, a big unit of Longfangs with missile launchers, and a Landraider with 5 wulfen inside. (The Wulfen had no upgrades). Mission was the Relic. He gave me 1st turn. I wanted 1st blood, and all he had on the table were the longfangs, and the Land raider, so I poured everything into the longfangs including all of the trukks. I killed 6, and the 2 survivors ran, but I didn't get the unit. On his turn, he brought in 2 pods including the one with cypher and the wolflord. He killed 1 squad of lootas, 2 Trukks (both warbosses), and killed my warlord's entire unit leaving him with 1 wound left.

My turn 2, I was feeling great. Nobody ran. Nobody was pinned, so I join my warlord with some boyz and prepped to assault cypher. Meanwhile my MANZ killed the landraider, and my Lucky stikk squad killed the grey hunters without characters. I also killed a drop pod with some boyz, and 5 of the marines with cypher. I charged cypher with 9 boyz, a Mek, a nob, and a wounded warboss. I lose 4 boyz to overwatch, and everyone else died before they got a chance to swing in CC. Wow. That didn't go well. On his 2, he brought in the other grey hunters, and between them and cypher's unit killed everyone with the Lucky stikk boss, and put 1 wound on him. The wulfen killed an empty trukk. My MANz took care of the wulfen. I joined my Lucky stikk boss to my last unit of boyzs, and setup to charge cypher's unit. My shooting reduced the grey hunters to 6 marines who failed leadership.

So here we go, a 2nd charge on cypher with 8 boyz, a nob, and MA Lucky stikk boss. He does 5 wounds to me with overwatch including 2 AP2's. I was an idiot and put my nob right next to the warboss, so I had to LOS the ap2 wounds onto him, and he died. Critical mistake. I charge in. Cypher challenges, I need my warboss to swing so I accept. Cypher kills my warboss, and only 2 boyz get to swing. They lose combat and get swept. Ugg. I'm out of boyz. Just Tankbustas, Lootas and MANZ, and lots of vehicles. MANZ move towards the relic. everything shoots at cypher's unit. It's down to 3 grey hunters, cypher and the wolf lord. On his turn he breaks that unit apart, and tries to kill 2 trukks and a buggy with the parts. Takes the rokkit off of the buggy, kill the tankbustas trukk, and take 1 hull point off a trukk. The other grey hunters kill a trukk which explodes killing 3 bustas. So Cypher is scary to the Manz. But the Wulflord with a power sword isn't, so I kill him. I shoot down all buy one of the grey hunters with cypher. I use a series of tank shocks to group up the other grey hunters, and hit them with the lobbas doing 18!! wounds. (3 live). Cypher also takes a wound from something.

It's the bottom of 4 and we get a 15 min warning, but agree to play through 5. He runs his 3 obsec grey hunters onto the relic. He joins cypher to the last grey hunter, and kill 1 manz in shooting, then charge the other two. Thankfully cypher's luck runs out. He only does 1 wound to a manz, and they obliterate him. So on my turn 5 I have to finish the 3 obsec grey hunters on the relic. I tank shock them twice to move them next to my manz for any easy charge, and finish them. He's got 2 pods left, but they can't move so I win.

Whew. This was surprisingly close. I definitely underestimated cypher and the wolf lord. I still had a bunch of empty trukks, but only one was ob sec, and he had bottom of turn, so I was worried about losing the relic to him.

So I'm 3-0, the only one, and take to top prize (Ren man).

Some final thoughts:
- My MANZ missile had a malfunction. I had meganobz left at the end of all 3 games. That's not supposed to happen.
- Trukk rush is so fun to play. I would have been toasted in kill points, but thankfully that mission didn't come up, and if it had, I probably could have tabled my opponents.
- In an Oldhammer environment, Orks can do quite well. I've won both oldhammer tourneys I've played.
- Celestein and Caul both showed up at the event, and neither of them died. Ug. GW why do you suck at rules? If I had put effort into it I could have put down celestein once, but I doubt I'd have enough left for a 2nd run at her, especially if she tried to stay alive.

**Blackie**

Great tournament man, congratulations! And yes, celestine is immortal, cawl very tough too, but that lady is impossible to kill. Without the chance to resuscitate one of her bodyguards every turn a herself once a game maybe, but with the actual rules you can't kill her, you should force her to assault expendable units that block her way.

Wulfen with no upgrades? Oh my. A 5 man wulfen unit with typical loadout costs 230 points and can wipe out in a single turn the entire bullyboyz formation. Wulfen and thunderwolves are way better in close combat than orks best melee units, a general advise is to shoot at them with everything you have and, like celestine, force them to assault expendable units.

**PipeAlley**

Great job man!! Trukks and Lobbas are fun when they work.

I've had many games like your second one: lose a lot but somehow manage to keep on trukkin.

**Ashkayel**

Nice job!

What do you mean by Oldhammer?

**tag8833**

Ashkayel wrote:
Nice job!

What do you mean by Oldhammer?

We used 5th ed army comp.

Single CAD

No Formations.
No Super Heavies
No other detachments.

Our attendee satisfaction level at these events is astronomical compared to other formats we run.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blackie wrote:
Wulfen with no upgrades? Oh my. A 5 man wulfen unit with typical loadout costs 230 points and can wipe out in a single turn the entire bullyboyz formation. Wulfen and thunderwolves are way better in close combat than orks best melee units, a general advise is to shoot at them with everything you have and, like celestine, force them to assault expendable units.

Yeah, that was my plan. I've fought alot of wulfen, and most of them tend to be TH + SS. A few have been Wolf Claws or axes. Usually I shoot them to death or sacrifice a squad to die with them, but with no upgrades at all they just made my MANZ make a pile of saves which I can do on a 2+.

**MagicMan**

Anyone had any luck with any kill team load-outs?

Im currently playing a campaign, and a few of the missions are kill team ones. I've used bikes, boyz and deffkoptas to some success, but lately keep getting shot off the board.

My main opponent is either GK jump troop squad with a flamer (which im not super worried about, can go either way) and Necron Warriors backed up by the Jetbikes.

The bikes are the real killer. 3+/5+Re save jetbikes, with a twinlinked S6 AP4 Ignores Cover gun.

Its like the design team put them in to specifically counter Ork bikes/jetbikes.

Backed up by the warriors, i've been getting crushed.

Any ideas?

**tag8833**

I had really good success with Trukks in Kill team.

At 200 points you can get:
5 Tankbustas in a Trukk
10 Shoota Boyz in a Trukk

The tankbustas are really good against tomb blades.

**Anpu-adom**

My favorite kill team is 5 burnaz and the rest of points in shoota boyz. I don't use the trukks, so I end up with like 17 boyz. Elite units can't get close to the burnaz, and if they do... hey, we have a power weapon!
I've also had it where they will charge a boy and kill it, only to be in range to eat a lot of shooting the following turn.

**PipeAlley**

Anpu-adom wrote:
My favorite kill team is 5 burnaz and the rest of points in shoota boyz. I don't use the trukks, so I end up with like 17 boyz. Elite units can't get close to the burnaz, and if they do... hey, we have a power weapon!
I've also had it where they will charge a boy and kill it, only to be in range to eat a lot of shooting the following turn.

I've played one Deffkopta and the rest either all Lootas or all Tankbustas on foot.

The AP3 and Str 8 doubles out most opponents models.

**Grimskul**

PipeAlley wrote:
Anpu-adom wrote:
My favorite kill team is 5 burnaz and the rest of points in shoota boyz. I don't use the trukks, so I end up with like 17 boyz. Elite units can't get close to the burnaz, and if they do... hey, we have a power weapon!
I've also had it where they will charge a boy and kill it, only to be in range to eat a lot of shooting the following turn.

I've played one Deffkopta and the rest either all Lootas or all Tankbustas on foot.

The AP3 and Str 8 doubles out most opponents models.

I don't think you can take Lootas in Kill Teams anymore now that they're part of heavy support rather than an elites slot.

For me it was a mix of shoota boyz and bikerz. Boyz for the numbers (since Ld7 is pretty damn bad for break tests) and warbikerz are great for specialist rules like FNP.

**Ashkayel**

PipeAlley wrote:
Eh, just make the Gorkanaught and Morkanaughts Super Heavies for their current point cost and call it a day.

Also I changed my list based on feedback from y'all:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/718325.page#9207568

About the "MAWB with 10 boyz in trukk" spam, I was thinking about the addition of a cybork body for every MAWB. A bit of MathHammer is needed here (maybe done before, sorry). Let's assume we forget about S10 and ID wounds, we want to LOS these anyway...

A MAWB with BP is 105 pts, with 3 wounds, so 35 pts per wound. A cybork body will save a wound 1 time out of 6. So it basically gives your WB half a wound, for a total of 3.5 wounds. That's 17.5 pts gained for the price of 5 pts.
If you have only 1 MAWB in your army, the cybork body won't probably be of any use. But in a 6- or 8-MAWB army, chances are you will save a few wounds via FNP. And most importantly save a MAWB!
That brings the unit price to 205 pts. That's manageable!

What do you guys think?

**KommissarKiln**

Here's a question I'd like to pose for everyone who has actually played Orks more than once in games bigger than Kill Team: let's say I can only get one Painboy in the immediate future, either as a blister pack or in the start collecting. Am I more likely to get better use out of him on foot, where he could accompany MANZ, huge Boy mob, etc., or on a bike? I'm willing to guess that the bike is the best bet as his unit will have +1 T and much better saves to stack with the FnP, but it's certainly a loss of versatility, in terms of how I build/convert the model.

Similarly, as I am planning on building a Warbiker unit of 8-10 models, is just a Klaw nob (and in all likelihood the Painboy) enough for CC, or should I also look towards getting a Warboss on a bike, too? Are Meks on bikes legal so I could bring a challenge surrogate? Any relevant info would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: Removed some weird doublepost shenanigans.

**tag8833**

KommissarKiln wrote:
Here's a question I'd like to pose for everyone who has actually played Orks more than once in games bigger than Kill Team: let's say I can only get one Painboy in the immediate future, either as a blister pack or in the start collecting. Am I more likely to get better use out of him on foot, where he could accompany MANZ, huge Boy mob, etc., or on a bike?

Buying a bike for a painboy is very efficient. You not only get the mobility and Toughness bonus, but you turn a model with no shooting into a fairly decent shooter. Not worth his points for shooting alone, but decent. A biker painboy can also eat a challenge for an important power claw with some hopes of surviving.

That being said. You will only make use of a biker painboy if you are running warbikers or Deff koptas. If you are like me you won't always run those things.

The best answer to your question depends on the type of playstyle you'd like.
-If you want to focus on bikers and run a biker deathstar, you want a painboy on bike.
-If you want to run orks in transports you want a painboy on foot.
-If you want to walk orks across the table, you want a painboy on foot

Usually your painboy is essentially the partner to your warboss, and he goes where your warboss goes. So biker painboy means bikerboss. Walking painboy means walking boss.

**slip**

3x painboy on foot is a good addition to any list running bullyboyz.

**JimOnMars**

The painboy should always go with a big unit to magnify his buff. If you have the money for a big biker unit, that seems best, but bikes are pricey.

His other great use is a green tide, and you can fill it with aobr boyz and crappily painted ones from fleabay. A lot of people don't like the tide but 100 boys with fnp is pretty nice.

**slip**

I'm not all that sold on the green tide. It falls apart to MSU obsec because it can only hold one objective at a time. It gets in the way of both your opponent and you from contesting objectives. It also allows your opponent to concentrate firepower on one target, maximizing his fire output without having to worry about overkill or range. The VSG nerf was the final straw. I don't see anyway for a greentide to stand up to wk/scatspam, gladius, riptide/stormsurge tau, necrons, daemon flying circuses, barkstars/superfriends/deathstars, or any of the top competitive builds.

The only real strategy seems to be take the lead on objectives turn 1 by rushing the entire army up the board, and then having the time run out before you get tabled.

**Blackie**

I hate the green tide as moving 100+ orks on foot in a single turn is unbearable. And I wouldn't pay even a single cent for crappily painted plastic miniatures

Painboys are very good with boyz in BW and bikes. They can be good with meganobz too but than the whole unit becomes too pricey, and boyz on foot are not worthy. They are very good with bikers too, but only if there's also a warboss in the same unit.

Biker mek is nice, but only if you like a moving KFF, otherwise a nob with a pk is better.

I like big units of bikers, usually 10 bikers with painboy and warboss, but there are many other ways to play them efficiently. I often run 3x7 bikes, all with nobz with pk and bp and they're very good, but also troop bikers with zhadsnark are solid and probably an autoinclude in any competitive list.

A single unit of 8-10 bikers with a nob is way better in shooting rather than fighting in close combat as they're basically a unit of trukk boyz. I'd avoid close combat with bikes, they are quite good to assault vehicles and enemy shooty units thanks to their speed. But against any decent close combat unit they're dead. With a painboy and a warboss they become killy also in close combat but they should always avoid strong melee units.

**Ashkayel**

Do what I did: Buy an old metal painboy, use the arm and head to convert a biker into a painbiker, and use the rest of the body for a painboy on foot. Biker head with goggles works perfectly for the painboy on foot.

There you have it, 2 painboys for the price of one! You might be able to do it with the new plastic one.

**Blackie**

Or you can convert some regular nobz into painboys, they just need the saw included in the same kit and to add a spike on a normal slugga in order to represent the urty syringe.

Green stuff to make the doktor mask or other bitz are nice but not needed. I used some spared part from my dark eldar kits, like some syringe from talos/cronos ichor injectors and arms and cleavers from the ogres box that i bought to convert them into grotesques. The nobz bosspole with the bones fits the character.

Same as the biker painboy, use a normal biker with the nobz torso and head included in the biker kit and convert a slugga into the urty syringe.

**PipeAlley**

tag8833 wrote:
KommissarKiln wrote:
Here's a question I'd like to pose for everyone who has actually played Orks more than once in games bigger than Kill Team: let's say I can only get one Painboy in the immediate future, either as a blister pack or in the start collecting. Am I more likely to get better use out of him on foot, where he could accompany MANZ, huge Boy mob, etc., or on a bike?
Buying a bike for a painboy is very efficient. You not only get the mobility and Toughness bonus, but you turn a model with no shooting into a fairly decent shooter. Not worth his points for shooting alone, but decent. A biker painboy can also eat a challenge for an important power claw with some hopes of surviving.

That being said. You will only make use of a biker painboy if you are running warbikers or Deff koptas. If you are like me you won't always run those things.

The best answer to your question depends on the type of playstyle you'd like.
-If you want to focus on bikers and run a biker deathstar, you want a painboy on bike.
-If you want to run orks in transports you want a painboy on foot.
-If you want to walk orks across the table, you want a painboy on foot

Usually your painboy is essentially the partner to your warboss, and he goes where your warboss goes. So biker painboy means bikerboss. Walking painboy means walking boss.

I add a PainBoy on Bike to foot units as well. Still gets the bonus to T and shooting and increases mobility within and between mobs. He can move 12" even if the boys only move 6 or less through difficult terrain. Unless it's Mad Dok Grotsnik in the Orcurion or PainBoyz with TankBustas in BW's, he's always on a bike.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ashkayel wrote:
PipeAlley wrote:
Eh, just make the Gorkanaught and Morkanaughts Super Heavies for their current point cost and call it a day.

Also I changed my list based on feedback from y'all:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/718325.page#9207568

About the "MAWB with 10 boyz in trukk" spam, I was thinking about the addition of a cybork body for every MAWB. A bit of MathHammer is needed here (maybe done before, sorry). Let's assume we forget about S10 and ID wounds, we want to LOS these anyway...

A MAWB with BP is 105 pts, with 3 wounds, so 35 pts per wound. A cybork body will save a wound 1 time out of 6. So it basically gives your WB half a wound, for a total of 3.5 wounds. That's 17.5 pts gained for the price of 5 pts.
If you have only 1 MAWB in your army, the cybork body won't probably be of any use. But in a 6- or 8-MAWB army, chances are you will save a few wounds via FNP. And most importantly save a MAWB!
That brings the unit price to 205 pts. That's manageable!

What do you guys think?

Your math is good and your argument is compelling on points per wound, but in my limited experience I'm not even using the Bosspoles and they'd hypothically save more points over the course of a game. The ability to LOS Str 10 and/or AP2 wounds on to a boy is free and more versatile. The FNP would be very situational: randomly allocated Str 9 or less wounds such as exploding vehicles OR during a challenge.

I'd guess I'd argue what's a better use of those points: FNP on one model or Bosspoles, OR both and having to drop a Lobba AND a Deffkopta (with 8 points leftover spare change).

**Ashkayel**

PipeAlley wrote:
I add a PainBoy on Bike to foot units as well. Still gets the bonus to T and shooting and increases mobility within and between mobs. He can move 12" even if the boys only move 6 or less through difficult terrain. Unless it's Mad Dok Grotsnik in the Orcurion or PainBoyz with TankBustas in BW's, he's always on a bike.

Clever! Per new FAQ IIRC he can still turbo-boost while the boyz run, however he won't be able to shoot if they run. And would he stop the unit from being pinned? Open debate, according to discussions I've found (ex: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/678712.page).

PipeAlley wrote:
Ashkayel wrote:
About the "MAWB with 10 boyz in trukk" spam, I was thinking about the addition of a cybork body for every MAWB. A bit of MathHammer is needed here (maybe done before, sorry). Let's assume we forget about S10 and ID wounds, we want to LOS these anyway...

A MAWB with BP is 105 pts, with 3 wounds, so 35 pts per wound. A cybork body will save a wound 1 time out of 6. So it basically gives your WB half a wound, for a total of 3.5 wounds. That's 17.5 pts gained for the price of 5 pts.
If you have only 1 MAWB in your army, the cybork body won't probably be of any use. But in a 6- or 8-MAWB army, chances are you will save a few wounds via FNP. And most importantly save a MAWB!
That brings the unit price to 205 pts. That's manageable!

What do you guys think?

Your math is good and your argument is compelling on points per wound, but in my limited experience I'm not even using the Bosspoles and they'd hypothically save more points over the course of a game. The ability to LOS Str 10 and/or AP2 wounds on to a boy is free and more versatile. The FNP would be very situational: randomly allocated Str 9 or less wounds such as exploding vehicles OR during a challenge.

I'd guess I'd argue what's a better use of those points: FNP on one model or Bosspoles, OR both and having to drop a Lobba AND a Deffkopta (with 8 points leftover spare change).

A bosspole ups your chances of passing a pinning check from 88.9% to 92.6%, assuming you lost 2+ boyz to trukk explosion. And if you need to pass a morale check also (assuming you lost 3+ boyz to explosion/mob rule caused by pinning), you'll fail one or both tests 21.0% of the time without a bosspole, compared to 14.3% with one. I will gladly pay 5 pts for that extra 6.7% chances of staying put! But that's debatable.

Speaking of challenges, I was also looking at the benefits of adding a barebone nob to the MAWB trukks. For 10 pts, you get +1 S, W, I and A, a character to eat challenges while your MAWB stomps stuff (most important perk here) and also a character for mob rule if your MAWB leaves the unit at some point (an interesting +13.9% chances of passing morale). People are saying that meks are mandatory in competitve lists to eat challenges for your PK nobz, that would be ever more crucial for MAWB!

Of course, that ups the price of the fully kitted unit to 215 pts (BP, CB and barebone nob). I guess it really depends on your opponent (or your meta). If your opponent has a lot of AP2 that strikes at initiative (or even at I1), it might be worthwhile. But against that IG tank spam, that would be pretty useless.

Interesting stuff. I really need to try this!

**slip**

When it comes to mek vs nob, I prefer the 10 point nob over the 15 point mek. Beefier in CC. The extra 5 points could give him a big choppa. If I'm giving the nob a klaw though, then throw in a mek.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, here's a funny list I thought up in the shower today.

CAD

Warboss - DFK, MA, BP, CB
120

Warboss - MA, BP, CB
110

2x 10 Boyz - Nob, Trukk, Rokkit, RR
210

Bullyboyz Formation

3x 5 MANz - Trukk, Rokkit, RR
705

Bullyboyz Formation

3x 5 MANz - Trukk, Rokkit, RR
705

1850

8 trukks, 30 MANz, 2 Bosses. Who wants to pay for it?

**Blackie**

In a list like that one why DFK instead of DLS? Because of points?

I'd love to play it by the way, meganobz are never enough

**PipeAlley**

slip wrote:
When it comes to mek vs nob, I prefer the 10 point nob over the 15 point mek. Beefier in CC. The extra 5 points could give him a big choppa. If I'm giving the nob a klaw though, then throw in a mek.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, here's a funny list I thought up in the shower today.

CAD

Warboss - DFK, MA, BP, CB
120

Warboss - MA, BP, CB
110

2x 10 Boyz - Nob, Trukk, Rokkit, RR
210

Bullyboyz Formation

3x 5 MANz - Trukk, Rokkit, RR
705

Bullyboyz Formation

3x 5 MANz - Trukk, Rokkit, RR
705

1850

8 trukks, 30 MANz, 2 Bosses. Who wants to pay for it?

I like it but I barely have enough MANZ to run a single BullyBoyz formation. I'd love to see it on the table though.

**Ashkayel**

slip wrote:
When it comes to mek vs nob, I prefer the 10 point nob over the 15 point mek. Beefier in CC. The extra 5 points could give him a big choppa. If I'm giving the nob a klaw though, then throw in a mek.

Also, here's a funny list I thought up in the shower today.

CAD

Warboss - DFK, MA, BP, CB
120

Warboss - MA, BP, CB
110

2x 10 Boyz - Nob, Trukk, Rokkit, RR
210

Bullyboyz Formation

3x 5 MANz - Trukk, Rokkit, RR
705

Bullyboyz Formation

3x 5 MANz - Trukk, Rokkit, RR
705

1850

8 trukks, 30 MANz, 2 Bosses. Who wants to pay for it?

That's a lot of MANz! Don't speak too loud, GW might come up with a 30-MANz formation in the next supplement...

Blackie wrote:
In a list like that one why DFK instead of DLS? Because of points?

I'd love to play it by the way, meganobz are never enough

For infiltrate, stealth/MTC(ruins) and/or night vision, I'd say. Don't think DLS is really needed in such a list. But it's always welcome.