Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!

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**Anpu-adom**

Yeah... after I get my vehicles and walkers painted, I'm going to need to make some kannons. I've got plenty of koptaz.

**Geemoney**

Glitcha wrote:
Well LVO (Las Vegas Open) was this past weekend and I had some time to sit down and catch couple of the games. One of the games was Orks vs admech. Ork player was running a really punchy list. From what I gather from the video his list was:

Zhadsnark
Big mek in mega armor

2 units of grots
1 unit of bikes

2 full units of mek gun (KMK)

Big mek stompa (buzzgob) or Kustom stompa?

Void shield generator

First, congrats to this guy. He managed to pull of a win. Second personally i'm not sold on his list. There is an issue with Zhadsnark and Mek gunz. Accord to Zhadsnark's rules, you can not have deff dread, kill kans, or big guns in your army. This rule was never updated when the new codex came out and big guns were renamed to Mek gunz. Personally, I've gone with that a Mek gun and big guns are the same unit. I'm sure the lists had to go through some approval process before hand, but it just seems like a gray area that could be argued.

Third, strategy. Since Objective secured is so huge for tournament play and the taking/ hold kind of objective play. This crafty git put a unit of grots in his stompa. Now you might be thinking why do that? Well now you got an Objective secured stompa running around on the table. It becomes a great objective holder.

For the record the ITC rules 'Big Guns' as 'Mek Guns' in this case. In addition the limitation on 'Big Guns' is part of his warlord trait; so it only applies if he is the warlord; which is not the case here.

**gungo**

He didn't need to put grots in buzzgrob stompa if buzzgrob is the warlord it's already one of the toughest warlords and obj secured.

I'm hoping that bigmek has a KFF or MFF for the stompa.

**Saythings**

gungo wrote:
He didn't need to put grots in buzzgrob stompa if buzzgrob is the warlord it's already one of the toughest warlords and obj secured.

I'm hoping that bigmek has a KFF or MFF for the stompa.

The Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa isn't ObSec. The Buzzgob's WLT just makes the Stompa scoring. Granted the wording of scoring was printed before ObSec was a thing. Did ITC rule that the Stompa is ObSec? Or did you just assume that Scoring meaning ObSec in this case?

**gungo**

Assumed since all units are scoring now.

**JimOnMars**

I don't run kannons, but here is a 1862 list with lobbas. It'll get murdered on the killpoint missions, but hey who's perfect? Need to drop something to get it under 1850:

Bosses N Kads
3 Detachments

CAD

HQ
MAWB Warlord BP Finkin Kap
MAWB BP Lukky Stikk

Troops
10 Boyz
Trukk Ram
10 Boyz
Trukk Ram

Elite
5 Tankbustas

Fast
Deff Kopta
Deff Kopta
Deff Kopta

Heavy
Lobba
Lobba
Lobba

CADS 2 & 3

HQ
MAWB
MAWB

Troops
10 Boyz
Trukk Ram
10 Boyz
Trukk Ram

Elite
5 Tankbustas

Fast
Deff Kopta
Deff Kopta
Deff Kopta

Heavy
Lobba
Lobba
Lobba

TOTAL 1862

Pity the farseer up against 9 lobbas!

**Ashkayel**

JimOnMars wrote:
I don't run kannons, but here is a 1862 list with lobbas. It'll get murdered on the killpoint missions, but hey who's perfect? Need to drop something to get it under 1850:

Bosses N Kads
3 Detachments

[...]

TOTAL 1862

Pity the farseer up against 9 lobbas!

Footslogging tankbustas? I would put them in trukks and ditch a few lobbas/koptas.

**Vitali Advenil**

Don't forget that the trukk the tankbustas in also gets tank hunter because it's a dedicated transport. That's a potential 11 S8AP3 shots from a fast vehicle. It's funny, but orks actually have the highest potential for S8 shooting. It's just that we never hit anything.

**ProwlerPC**

I would rather put lobbas in full size squads and use barrage to try to hit specific targets within the ablative wounds. Drop 4 lobbas to give your tankbustas a bare bones truk at least. Still I see the merit in being able to target different units with each individual lobby as well as not risking losing any due to running off the table.

**koooaei**

Vitali Advenil wrote:
Don't forget that the trukk the tankbustas in also gets tank hunter because it's a dedicated transport. That's a potential 11 S8AP3 shots from a fast vehicle. It's funny, but orks actually have the highest potential for S8 shooting. It's just that we never hit anything.

It's like saying that landraiders get 3++ because they're dedicated transports to assault terminators.

**Blackie**

Vitali Advenil wrote:
Don't forget that the trukk the tankbustas in also gets tank hunter because it's a dedicated transport. That's a potential 11 S8AP3 shots from a fast vehicle. It's funny, but orks actually have the highest potential for S8 shooting. It's just that we never hit anything.

I used to make the same mistakes, dedicated transports have just the same role of the units they carry, not their special rules. That's why boyz' trukks in CADs are obj sec, not because dedicated transports inherit special rules from their passengers.

**Ashkayel**

ProwlerPC wrote:
I would rather put lobbas in full size squads and use barrage to try to hit specific targets within the ablative wounds. Drop 4 lobbas to give your tankbustas a bare bones truk at least. Still I see the merit in being able to target different units with each individual lobby as well as not risking losing any due to running off the table.

I agree, single kannons are better than single lobbas. Lobbas belong in squads with ammo runts imo. You could proxy your lobbas as kannons.

+1 for the trukk NOT getting tank hunter.

**Singleton Mosby**

Ashkayel wrote:

+1 for the trukk NOT getting tank hunter.

Same here. That would be a weird thing.

**PipeAlley**

Ashkayel wrote:
ProwlerPC wrote:
I would rather put lobbas in full size squads and use barrage to try to hit specific targets within the ablative wounds. Drop 4 lobbas to give your tankbustas a bare bones truk at least. Still I see the merit in being able to target different units with each individual lobby as well as not risking losing any due to running off the table.

I agree, single kannons are better than single lobbas. Lobbas belong in squads with ammo runts imo. You could proxy your lobbas as kannons.

+1 for the trukk NOT getting tank hunter.

I'd argue a mix of Kannon and Lobba. If you place your own objectives, hide your three and plant out of LOS Lobbas to hold them. Kannon can be good as long as they have a clear shot. Also the more Deffkoptas, the less you need Kannon and Lobbas quasi-sniper effects can be more useful.

Finally, I've run TB on foot many times to good effect and with this many Trukks and Koptas, no opponent is going to bother with 5 Tankbustas. A Trukk could be a liability when it explodes.

**Blackie**

PipeAlley wrote:

Finally, I've run TB on foot many times to good effect and with this many Trukks and Koptas, no opponent is going to bother with 5 Tankbustas. A Trukk could be a liability when it explodes.

But 5 footslogging tankbustas are an automatic first blood or kill point... if they have transport they should ride in a trukks spam so they wouldn't be a priority target mostly. Very few times I've seen tankbustas' trukks explosions. And IMHO those 35 points worth the extra movement and the extra protection because even with the chance of getting hurt by an explosion orks on trukks are safer than orks on foot.

**Glitcha**

Saythings wrote:
gungo wrote:
He didn't need to put grots in buzzgrob stompa if buzzgrob is the warlord it's already one of the toughest warlords and obj secured.

I'm hoping that bigmek has a KFF or MFF for the stompa.

The Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa isn't ObSec. The Buzzgob's WLT just makes the Stompa scoring. Granted the wording of scoring was printed before ObSec was a thing. Did ITC rule that the Stompa is ObSec? Or did you just assume that Scoring meaning ObSec in this case?

No ITC did not rule the Buzzgob's warlord trait makes him ObSec. I believe that is the reason why the player put grots inside the stompa, because they are ObSec. The reason we are talking about it is because the player claimed the Stompa was ObSec during the game when claiming an objective. Putting a ObSec unit inside would be the only way to achieve this.

**gungo**

Well that's a redundant and useless warlord trait then. Here's hoping 8th ed puts up every dataslate including old outdated fw units on the BL page.

I'm also hoping orks get a triumvirate boxset of MC sized ghaz as an evolved alpha ork, wazdakka bigmek on bike, and Maddoc pk w poison painboss.

**Blackie**

gungo wrote:

I'm also hoping orks get a triumvirate boxset of MC sized ghaz as an evolved alpha ork, wazdakka bigmek on bike, and Maddoc pk w poison painboss.

I agree about ghaz and grotsnik, we absolutely need another megarmored warboss model and grotsnik is way too old, but rather than a biker boss I'd like a new psyker, like zogwort, as the regular weirboy model is awful.

**gnome_idea_what**

gungo wrote:
Well that's a redundant and useless warlord trait then. Here's hoping 8th ed puts up every dataslate including old outdated fw units on the BL page.

I'm also hoping orks get a triumvirate boxset of MC sized ghaz as an evolved alpha ork, wazdakka bigmek on bike, and Maddoc pk w poison painboss.

In a few years it should be the orks' turn to get an Imperial Armor. Until then don't count on anything getting updated.

Speaking of FW things getting updated, did the IA8 gun wagon get an updated entry with hull points anywhere? I was considering running one but can't find whether it has three or four hull points and have heard it both ways with no official sources.

**Latro_**

I know its not 'orks' but since the gorkanaught is so terrible has anyone considered using one as a renegade knight?! kinda works, gatling cannon, ccw...

**Sledgio**

I ran a Renegade Knight, twin close combat weapons though. It ran at a Wraithknight, the D weapons bounced off the shield and then it munched the xenos in combat. Then it was promptly destroyed by 5 Wraithguard with more D weapons. So, mixed results, but it saved those units from shooting the rest of my army!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
This was just because I wanted to convert one tbh...

**Ashkayel**

Hey guys, anyone here tried the Air Armada formation (3 dakkajets 1 burna-bommer 1 blitza-bommer who come back from ongoing reserves at full HP and weapons)? I'd like to try it in a friendly 1500 pts game against Necrons/DE/Harlequins, I think it could be fun!

I was going for Da Finkin' Kap on my warlord and an ADL with Comms Relay to ensure they all enter the game on T2. What do you think?

I've made a first draft here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/716889.page

**Saythings**

gungo wrote:
Well that's a redundant and useless warlord trait then. Here's hoping 8th ed puts up every dataslate including old outdated fw units on the BL page.

I'm also hoping orks get a triumvirate boxset of MC sized ghaz as an evolved alpha ork, wazdakka bigmek on bike, and Maddoc pk w poison painboss.

Never hope this! Hahahaha.

The Buzzgob's Big Mek Stompa is greatly underpriced. So much so that FW released a statement declaring that the 400 pts stompa was a typo mistake. However, they never released an official FAQ changing the point cost. As soon as a newer version is release I expect it to go back to be greatly overcosted. Just let it ride out as long as possible!

**gungo**

Blackie wrote:
gungo wrote:

I'm also hoping orks get a triumvirate boxset of MC sized ghaz as an evolved alpha ork, wazdakka bigmek on bike, and Maddoc pk w poison painboss.

I agree about ghaz and grotsnik, we absolutely need another megarmored warboss model and grotsnik is way too old, but rather than a biker boss I'd like a new psyker, like zogwort, as the regular weirboy model is awful.

I love the weirdboy finecast model. It's super characterful with all the gretchin holding chains. However a new Character with his own unique power wouldn't hurt.
I think a bikerboss model is very popular with people mostly just using zhardsnark fw model.
However wazdakka was a fairly badarse character as a big mek on bike that had battlecannons instead of dakka guns make this model dual purpose as a warboss with PK and it would sell extremely well. (Add an optional KFF bit and it's bonus).

Personally I'd love to see new Maddoc model With a new painklaw option that's a 2+ poison ap2 klaw. The current painboy model makes no sense with its massive klaw representing doc tools.

**Anvildude**

I just want to see a Tankbusta or Burna special character/warlord.

**slip**

Anvildude wrote:
I just want to see a Tankbusta or Burna special character/warlord.

For being called "glory hogs", i actually don't know any who are actually glorious.

Not that you should be wishing for this. The special characters for stormboyz, kommandoes, flash gitz, etc. etc. are all the badass looking crazy expensive models that absolutely blow on the table.

Leave those guys in the display case.

**Geemoney**

I don't see how 400 points for the Big Mek stompa is overpriced when Imperial Knights are 375 - 425. I get they have half the hull points but they have better shooting, higher initiative, and invul save. And don't get me started on Wraith Knights....

I think 400 points is more or less a fair point cost, anything more than that and they will not see play anymore.

**Anpu-adom**

Yes, that is why the ITC allows them even though Forgeworld acknowledges the misprint.

**slip**

Even at that price point it's pretty overcosted. Higher end lists and vehicle based psyker powers wreck them. They're suppossed to brings some dakka but thanks to bs2 the scatter turns everything to garbage and I've yet to see the 3d6 shots make it to round 3, even if the stompa does. It also doesn't mesh with the mechanized ork lists that usually wind up in itc.

Finally, why is it wearing a dress. why.

**Saythings**

I'll take the 550 pts Big Mek Stompa with 2 S10 AP1 7" Blasts. That seems fair. Put a 135 pt Big Mek with 4++ and it almost never dies - at least by shooting. It takes quite a bit of misplay for it to die. Yes, we are now talking about 685 pts in 1 model but add another 35 and its obsec. You don't really need more repairs (it has 2 at this point). 1100 points to play with for the rest of the army seems fair. It's not broken, but it's fair. I also think IK for 375 is fair. They are definitely not broken and the 2 models shouldn't be compared. They do completely different things and side armor 13 is a pretty big deal.

Edit: The 770 codex stompa is ridiculously overpriced however. It has no D6 void shields. It has no repair mechanic by itself. No 2 free grot oilers. Worse weapons all around. No custom weapon options. No S

shooting. No Auto-wreck liftadropa. It's large PoS. Haha. I'm hoping Nova allows the Buzzgob Stompa this year or I might have to change my list... D: